Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

CDNBear

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CDNBear, you are only a wrangler; do you want to defend the criminal people; the wrong doers and transgressors, who came and settled in Palestine taking the advantage of their allies the English and the weakness of the Arab and the Muslims worlds.
You're late to the game sunshine. Don't assume you know anything about me or my position on this matter.
So they started to settle and drive away the original Palestinian people from their homeland and to attack the Arab countries and transgresses on them continuously in minor daily attacks and in major every 19 years expansion until they captured the city of Jerusalem and started to corrupt the holy mosque at Jerusalem.
Ya, unfortunately you have to completely overlook and ignore other major aspects of the history of the region to come to that myopic and uneducated position. When you've gone out and learned a little more, come back and talk to me. Until then, I won't give you any accord or respect.

Whatever you say, you cannot change the truth and their transgression is evident to all people.
Quite, then you also have those that dwell in ignorance, willfully, because of an ideology or theology. Like yourself.

I tell you another point: you may be born there in Palestine, but you have to know that the West wanted to get rid of them and exploit them to weaken the Arab and prevent their unity.


Good reading. Now try and find something that doesn't support your preconceived ideology and theology. Until then, your opinion is jaded by bias, full of willful ignorance. If and when you do stretch out of that mire, you may find balance.
 
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petros

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When a woman can ride in the front of the bus in Jerusalem, I'll consider Israel a just nation.

Until then it's savage against savage.
 

CDNBear

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When a woman can ride in the front of the bus in Jerusalem, I'll consider Israel a just nation.
Have some proof of that?

Until then it's savage against savage.
I don't think at this point I would remove that observation as legitimate. For all its advances compared to Palestine and the terrorist regime in Gaza, I don't see Israel as innocent or free from blame. No matter how free its citizens may be.
 

eanassir

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you have to completely overlook and ignore other major aspects of the history of the region to come to that myopic and uneducated position.


Don't rely on any of such points: the history of the region... it is to our side: the Arab and the Palestinians were there before the coming of the Hebrew.

Anyhow, the entire earth belongs to God: He gives His ownership to any whom He pleases,

and if I were at the time of Moses and Josua I should have fought with them agaisnt the idolaters,

but now the situation is different and the Palestinians are not idolaters; and all people should not fight the Quran and the people believing in the Quran; God has not commanded the Zionists to do so.

Good reading. Now try and find something that doesn't support your preconceived ideology and theology.

So then to please you, I should leave the truth of the Quran and the rights of the Palestinians and find something else other than my ideology !?

Their Rebellion against Their Prophet
 

CDNBear

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Don't rely on any of such points: the history of the region... it is to our side: the Arab and the Palestinians were there before the coming of the Hebrew.


Anyhow, the entire earth belongs to God: He gives His ownership to any whom He pleases,

and if I were at the time of Moses and Josua I should have fought with them agaisnt the idolaters,


but now the situation is different and the Palestinians are not idolaters; and all people should not fight the Quran and the people believing in the Quran; God has not commanded the Zionists to do so.



So then to please you, I should leave the truth of the Quran and the rights of the Palestinians and find something else other than my ideology !?
Theology and...


You're part of the problem and you don't even know it. I gave you a thumbs up for that contribution, you actually made me LOL, for real.
 
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petros

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Quoting petros When a woman can ride in the front of the bus in Jerusalem, I'll consider Israel a just nation.​

Have some proof of that?
Nooooooo problem Bear. No problem at all.

Women protest gender-segregated buses

Dozens of people, mostly women, ride on 'mehadrin' buses in which men and women sit separately and sit at front of bus in protest. Protesters demand an end to discrimination that forces women to sit at back of bus for modesty reasons. Protesters make sure to respect religious ban on coming in physical contact with opposite sex

Woman beaten on J'lem bus for refusing to move to rear seat

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus.
Segregate or suffer By RON FRIEDMAN
12/02/2010 Alternatives to ‘mehadrin’ buses are costly, dwindling. An updated list of gender-segregated buses operated by Egged and obtained by The Jerusalem Post on Thursday reveals that on five intercity routes passengers have no choice but to use “mehadrin buses,” and that on more than 25 other routes, females who don’t want to board via the rear door have to switch buses two or three times and often pay substantially more to reach their destination.

The list of routes, compiled by the legal department of the Reform Movement’s Israel Religious Action Center, reveals, for example, that it is impossible to travel from Ashdod to Safed by bus without boarding a mehadrin line or making a transfer. The same goes for people traveling from Beit Shemesh to Jerusalem and from Ashdod to Bnei Brak. The sole Saturday night bus from Ashdod to Haifa is also of the segregated variety.

In other cases, gender-segregated buses are simply the cheapest and fastest way to get from one place to another using public transportation. A passenger traveling from Jerusalem to Petah Tikva, for example, can either pay NIS 19.70 and take the segregated No. 426 bus directly, arriving at his destination in 79 minutes, or take the No. 400 bus to the Aluf Sadeh intersection, wait a minimum of 15 minutes and board the No. 164 to Petah Tikva. The overall cost of the alternative is NIS 28.50 and it will take at least 10 minutes longer.

Similarly, travel from Ashdod to Arad changes from a two-hour and NIS 24 ride on a segregated line to a four-hour and NIS 60 ride requiring two transfers.

The list goes on. The cost of travel from Jerusalem to Safed doubles if you insist on avoiding mehadrin buses and the same goes for travel from Dimona to the capital.

Einat Hurvitz, legal representative for Israel Religious Action Center, said more and more bus routes are becoming segregated and that the alternatives are dwindling.

Hurvitz is leading a legal battle in the High Court of Justice on behalf of the center and a list of female plaintiffs, who have petitioned the court to order Egged, Dan and the Ministry of Transportation to stop operating the segregated bus lines.

Gender-segregated bus lines first appeared in Israel in the ’90s in order to encourage haredim to use public transportation. Some interpretations of Jewish law say that to reduce impure thoughts in men, they should not be able to look at women. The solution for the often cramped conditions in public buses was to arrange a system where male and female passengers would board the bus from different entrances, men from the front and women from the back.

The arrangement, which started in places with significant haredi populations like Bnei Brak and certain neighborhoods in Jerusalem, expanded with time and began operating on intercity routes and eventually to places like Ashdod, Haifa and Arad, where haredim make up smaller percentages of the population.

Another phenomenon that has developed over time is that the arrangement, once voluntary, is more and more often being enforced by religious fundamentalists. Reports of women being bullied and intimidated into sitting in the back have begun surfacing on a regular basis.

Critics of the practice, including modern Orthodox Jews and some haredim, say it discriminates against women. Hurvitz said that there have been instances where people, mostly women, who refuse to abide by the arrangement have been attacked, and that in some cases bus drivers have taken part in forcing them to sit in the back.

Egged’s spokesman, Ron Retner, said the mehadrin buses operate under Transportation Ministry policies that aim to ease the use of public transportation for various sectors of the public, among them the haredi population.

“These lines connect haredi population centers and operate without intermediate stations,” Retner said.

“Egged does not interfere with the voluntary arrangement on the bus and in any case, the majority of public transportation users in Israel are law-abiding citizens and therefore the number of instances where drivers are required to intervene, for any reason, is minuscule and negligible in light of the more than a million passengers a day who chose Egged as their means of transport.”

So far, the government has been happy to let the status quo remain. On February 1, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz (Likud), in an affidavit to the High Court, said the buses would remain in operation, but that the state would not tolerate the use of threats and violence to enforce the separation.

Katz wrote that while the state cannot establish separation between men and women on public transportation, operators should be permitted to hang “behavior-directing” signs asking passengers to sit separately, but indicating that this is not mandatory. It remains to be seen whether Katz’s solution will be accepted by the court.
 

CDNBear

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Nooooooo problem Bear. No problem at all.

That's just ignorant. You would think in a country founded by people who were segregated, they would have a greater appreciation of equality eh?

I actually know some Orthodox Jews, that have a small summer community here. There's even a small Temple not 5 minutes from my house, in rural Ontario on Lake Simcoe.

When we lived closer to them years ago, our kids would play together, we would commune with them and I always thought it to be strange that the women would segregate themselves, recoil when I would put my hand out, and so on. They brought me up to speed as we grew a friendship. I respected it, though I never particularly agreed with it. Neither did my overly feminist wife, lol.

But the same principle I apply to the burqa applies here. It's ignorance. It's trained and instilled from birth. It needs to stop and people of all genders, races and religions need to move into the 21st century.
 

petros

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That's just ignorant. You would think in a country founded by people who were segregated, they would have a greater appreciation of equality eh?

I actually know some Orthodox Jews, that have a small summer community here. There's even a small Temple not 5 minutes from my house, in rural Ontario on Lake Simcoe.

When we lived closer to them years ago, our kids would play together, we would commune with them and I always thought it to be strange that the women would segregate themselves, recoil when I would put my hand out, and so on. They brought me up to speed as we grew a friendship. I respected it, though I never particularly agreed with it. Neither did my overly feminist wife, lol.

But the same principle I apply to the burqa applies here. It's ignorance. It's trained and instilled from birth. It needs to stop and people of all genders, races and religions need to move into the 21st century.
Do your own research into the Orthos in Israel and how they feel about women and conservative Jews. I wan't kidding when I stated in an earlier post that they were just a heartbeat away from equalling the Taliban. Things aren't getter better there. It is only getting worse.
 

CDNBear

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Do your own research into the Orthos in Israel and how they feel about women and conservative Jews. I wan't kidding when I stated in an earlier post that they were just a heartbeat away from equalling the Taliban. Things aren't getter better there. It is only getting worse.
I'm already aware of them. I've seen video's of them reacting to "outsiders" in their neighbourhoods. Simply pathetic, ignorant and pure ugly.

I absolutely agree with your opinion on the matter.
 

petros

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As it stands they are 14% of Israel's population but they breed faster than Irish Catholics and will be 20% by 2020 and have majority by 2040. That isn't a long time at all.
 

petros

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They don't want Tel Aviv and Tel Aviv doesn't want them.

I'd really like to know how you split a tiny piece of really bad land into 5 equal parts where all are happy?
 

CDNBear

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They don't want Tel Aviv and Tel Aviv doesn't want them.

I'd really like to know how you split a tiny piece of really bad land into 5 equal parts where all are happy?
I have no idea. If I did though, do you think anyone would listen?
 

petros

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I have no idea. If I did though, do you think anyone would listen?
It's doubtful. Until today you yourself had no idea about the segregation and required confirmation.

If the Christian Zionists and pro-Israel types in America and around the globe find out that they are buying houses for people who only differ mildly with the Taliban, would they continue their blind support?
 

CDNBear

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It's doubtful. Until today you yourself had no idea about the segregation and required confirmation.
True, I was well aware of the issues with the Orthodox communities, I wasn't aware that Israel allowed it to inflict itself upon the people like that though.

Life an exercise in education, I learn something new everyday. Sometimes from people you would think to be an unlikely source.

If the Christian Zionists and pro-Israel types in America and around the globe find out that they are buying houses for people who only differ mildly with the Taliban, would they continue their blind support?
In some cases? Yes. Some will justify it. Some will ignore it. Some will simply dismiss it.

This situation simply makes me roll my eyes, I find it ignorant and off putting. I'll still defend Israel as a whole, when she deserves it. But you find me defending gender segregation, based on archaic religious policies.
 

petros

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True, I was well aware of the issues with the Orthodox communities, I wasn't aware that Israel allowed it to inflict itself upon the people like that though.

Life an exercise in education, I learn something new everyday. Sometimes from people you would think to be an unlikely source.

In some cases? Yes. Some will justify it. Some will ignore it. Some will simply dismiss it.

This situation simply makes me roll my eyes, I find it ignorant and off putting. I'll still defend Israel as a whole, when she deserves it. But you find me defending gender segregation, based on archaic religious policies.
As I said. I'll call israel a just nation when there is equality straight across the board. Until then, they can wallow in what they've created and I'lll offer little pity.
 

CDNBear

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As I said. I'll call israel a just nation when there is equality straight across the board. Until then, they can wallow in what they've created and I'lll offer little pity.
I wonder why they tolerate that, yet they have the only human rights legislation in Asia that protects the rights of homosexuals.

I find that completely puzzling and contradictory.
 

CDNBear

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Not at all puzzling. It was done to impress us in the west so we keep believing that they are just.
Could be. But wouldn't you think the subjugation of women would be seen as more abhorrent then the plight of homosexuals?

I mean the US still doesn't have a broadly accepted view of homosexuality. But women' rights have enjoyed a stronger and longer life and support.
 

petros

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Could be. But wouldn't you think the subjugation of women would be seen as more abhorrent then the plight of homosexuals?
It would if it was covered in our news. We only see the secular Israel on the toob or in the papers. We are being played by our own govt and media who obviously have an agenda beyond what we are told.