Islamofascists' rally at ground zero
- Thread starter I think not
- Start date
Said1 said:
British officials and Jews intentionally instigated the Boer War in South Africa to steal diamonds and to a lesser extent gold from that colony, I forget the title of his book, read British historian, Thomas Pakenham.
RE: Islamofascists' rally
You won,t find anywhere in my posts any protestations of Canadian innocense, and if I,ve not emphasized our bootlicking guilt in crimes against humanity and our own part in corrupt western values I am more than willing to begin, it is more fun to pick on the poor Americans. Fact is it,s guilt by association for us Canadians. We,re just as fat, just as lazy, just as guilty but were nicer.
You won,t find anywhere in my posts any protestations of Canadian innocense, and if I,ve not emphasized our bootlicking guilt in crimes against humanity and our own part in corrupt western values I am more than willing to begin, it is more fun to pick on the poor Americans. Fact is it,s guilt by association for us Canadians. We,re just as fat, just as lazy, just as guilty but were nicer.
Okay, guys, I've read this thread and it is pissing me off.
Every one of you is trying to find some way to degrade western civilization.
I've said it before.
We are fortunate enough to live in the west, in a culture that is the absolute apex of human development. Never, in the history of mankind, has there ever been a society where so many were so rich and so free.
I refuse to engage in some counter-productive, guilt-ridden game of navel-gazing over our imperfect history. Yes, we whacked the Boers (also westerners) for diamonds. Yes, the United States got stupidly involved in Vietnam as an attempt to forestall communism in Europe, believe it or not. Yes, we held slaves 175 years ago. Yes, Spain murdered and plundered its way across South America, bank rolling European progress.
Yes, the development of the greatest civilization earth has ever known has been imperfect and bloody.........and we should acknowledge that, and learn from our mistakes.
But we should do so with an eye to defending the good in this culture against those that would destroy it, or see it defanged.
Every great culture has been brash, confident, aggressive and often gratuitously violent. This consistent guilt culture of the west, newly born in the last quarter of the twentieth century, saps our strength, shakes our confidence, lowers our guard, and could well lead to the destruction of our way of life.
That would be a disaster for all humanity.
Every one of you is trying to find some way to degrade western civilization.
I've said it before.
We are fortunate enough to live in the west, in a culture that is the absolute apex of human development. Never, in the history of mankind, has there ever been a society where so many were so rich and so free.
I refuse to engage in some counter-productive, guilt-ridden game of navel-gazing over our imperfect history. Yes, we whacked the Boers (also westerners) for diamonds. Yes, the United States got stupidly involved in Vietnam as an attempt to forestall communism in Europe, believe it or not. Yes, we held slaves 175 years ago. Yes, Spain murdered and plundered its way across South America, bank rolling European progress.
Yes, the development of the greatest civilization earth has ever known has been imperfect and bloody.........and we should acknowledge that, and learn from our mistakes.
But we should do so with an eye to defending the good in this culture against those that would destroy it, or see it defanged.
Every great culture has been brash, confident, aggressive and often gratuitously violent. This consistent guilt culture of the west, newly born in the last quarter of the twentieth century, saps our strength, shakes our confidence, lowers our guard, and could well lead to the destruction of our way of life.
That would be a disaster for all humanity.
RE: Islamofascists' rally
Absolute apex of human development, are you mad? Greatest civilization the earth has ever known, are you insane? The disaster for all humanity would be to survive in our present form.In case your not paying attention we,re eating the planet. There is to much smog in Saint John, it,s damaged your brain cell, say hellow to Elsie for me.
Absolute apex of human development, are you mad? Greatest civilization the earth has ever known, are you insane? The disaster for all humanity would be to survive in our present form.In case your not paying attention we,re eating the planet. There is to much smog in Saint John, it,s damaged your brain cell, say hellow to Elsie for me.
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally
So, back yourself up.
What culture in the history of humanity has been as free, and has left its citizens as rich?
Name one.
darkbeaver said:
So, back yourself up.
What culture in the history of humanity has been as free, and has left its citizens as rich?
Name one.
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally
here here darkbeaver!
it is so easy for one to sit back and say "my life is so good, so the system that got me here is good,....."
darkbeaver said:
here here darkbeaver!
it is so easy for one to sit back and say "my life is so good, so the system that got me here is good,....."
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally
The AZTECS!????????????
EXCUSE ME!!!???
You have never heard, obviously, of the "Wars of the Flowers", held between rival Aztec cities or regions.
The wars were fought with clubs, as the idea was not to kill, or to gain territory or take plunder, but to capture men for human sacrifice. These individuals, unfortunate enough to be captured, were drugged, laid out on altars, had their chests torn open by priests, and their hearts pulled out and crushed on the altar while they still lived. They were then rolled down the pyramid steps to make way for the next victim.
On certain festivals, after a successful battle, as many as 20,000 were sacrificed in a single day.
I do think a society based on mass human sacrifice can safely be disqualified.
Care to try again?
I hope you do better than THAT one!
darkbeaver said:
The AZTECS!????????????
EXCUSE ME!!!???
You have never heard, obviously, of the "Wars of the Flowers", held between rival Aztec cities or regions.
The wars were fought with clubs, as the idea was not to kill, or to gain territory or take plunder, but to capture men for human sacrifice. These individuals, unfortunate enough to be captured, were drugged, laid out on altars, had their chests torn open by priests, and their hearts pulled out and crushed on the altar while they still lived. They were then rolled down the pyramid steps to make way for the next victim.
On certain festivals, after a successful battle, as many as 20,000 were sacrificed in a single day.
I do think a society based on mass human sacrifice can safely be disqualified.
Care to try again?
I hope you do better than THAT one!
hey colpy, life was good prior to the babylonians!
its only been the last 3000 years or so things have been steadily going downhill.
its only been the last 3000 years or so things have been steadily going downhill.
I think not said:Shocking daring Islamofascists' rally at... ground zero
:angryfire:
Anti-UAC Protesters at Ground Zero protesting the United American Committee's Rally Against Islamofascism on February 1. Keep in mind this is at GROUND ZERO where 3,000 Americans were murdered by Islamic extremists.
Link
I think there are one or two posters here who would have been happy joining them!
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally at ground zero
Now that's funny!
Sorry, ancient history ain't y forte!
the caracal kid said:
Now that's funny!
Sorry, ancient history ain't y forte!
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally at ground zero
guilt is what people who are not pychopaths feel when they discover they have done something they know is wrong
or in this case what their --culture -- has done
its an uncomfortable feeling
one of the options you have is to turn the whole argumennt around and make it look like WE the WEST are the victims or will be the victims ,that way you can override that sense of guilt with the instict for survival
that is one of the pychological mechanisms that allows the whole process to continue
you claim we are wealthier than we have ever been
perhaps but its to a large extent at the expense of others
you claim that we are wealthy in the west
you are right only in a relative sense
in an absolute sense however
the entire planet including the west is in abject poverty
we are in abject poverty, materially , compared with what we all COULD have if we had made better decisions
example vietnam
- not picking on US-
i choose it because of the material cost
one trillion dollars -literaly
for what- nothing
we are virtually allies with regimes who have much worse human rights records than the vietnamese victors
if one trillion dollars of scientific research
had been handed over to the same scientists and engineers who design all those high tech weopons - but you had asked them instead to design a cheap renewal sustainable energy source-system we would all have that by now
and would be living in a world of less not more scarcity
we would all be wealthier materailly and probably welthier in every respect
the western military machine and its defenders- would have us believe our material wealth comes from the brutal process that brought us here
but
i would ask you to consider the possiblity that we have some measure of material wealth INSPITE of the war machine rather than because of it
becuase this agressive approach may have payed off - in the past does not mean it will continue to do so
i dont believe your anger at these observations is justified
we dont deride western culture
western culture derides itself
it cant help it
its love for the truth no matter what the cost is what brought us
objective truth -science-
so the truth about our darker side is available for our evaluation
oh and by the way the other major cornerstone of western civilisation- judeochristianity also something to do with guilt.
these two pillar have to be used but in the right way
science for material progress
and JC -ethics for just conduct toward others
apart from reason
how do you know your off course
guilt -is one of the clues
anger-this is also a clue but only when its directed at something thats gone wrong with the world NOT when its directed at the person who is describing the wrong
Colpy said:
guilt is what people who are not pychopaths feel when they discover they have done something they know is wrong
or in this case what their --culture -- has done
its an uncomfortable feeling
one of the options you have is to turn the whole argumennt around and make it look like WE the WEST are the victims or will be the victims ,that way you can override that sense of guilt with the instict for survival
that is one of the pychological mechanisms that allows the whole process to continue
you claim we are wealthier than we have ever been
perhaps but its to a large extent at the expense of others
you claim that we are wealthy in the west
you are right only in a relative sense
in an absolute sense however
the entire planet including the west is in abject poverty
we are in abject poverty, materially , compared with what we all COULD have if we had made better decisions
example vietnam
- not picking on US-
i choose it because of the material cost
one trillion dollars -literaly
for what- nothing
we are virtually allies with regimes who have much worse human rights records than the vietnamese victors
if one trillion dollars of scientific research
had been handed over to the same scientists and engineers who design all those high tech weopons - but you had asked them instead to design a cheap renewal sustainable energy source-system we would all have that by now
and would be living in a world of less not more scarcity
we would all be wealthier materailly and probably welthier in every respect
the western military machine and its defenders- would have us believe our material wealth comes from the brutal process that brought us here
but
i would ask you to consider the possiblity that we have some measure of material wealth INSPITE of the war machine rather than because of it
becuase this agressive approach may have payed off - in the past does not mean it will continue to do so
i dont believe your anger at these observations is justified
we dont deride western culture
western culture derides itself
it cant help it
its love for the truth no matter what the cost is what brought us
objective truth -science-
so the truth about our darker side is available for our evaluation
oh and by the way the other major cornerstone of western civilisation- judeochristianity also something to do with guilt.
these two pillar have to be used but in the right way
science for material progress
and JC -ethics for just conduct toward others
apart from reason
how do you know your off course
guilt -is one of the clues
anger-this is also a clue but only when its directed at something thats gone wrong with the world NOT when its directed at the person who is describing the wrong
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally
As a matter of fact, according to a news report I heard today, a majority of Canadians do not think that Canadian armed forces should be fighting in Afghanistan.
Last report I heard, the majority of American citizens still supports having US armed forces fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sometimes our government gets us into situations to please the US government, that the majority of Canadians do not agree with.
You should consider that before you start chewing on Canadians. Some of you might want to put yourself on the same level as Americans, but you don't speak for me.
cortez wrote
Do you use this condescending attitude to discredit Juan's arguments?
It doesn't work.
Canadians, these days, generally have a different attitude about how to fix world problems then the majority of Americans.
Maybe we're no better at fixing them then the US, but we aren't as ready to use violence to solve problems. That's a fact.
Canadians, in the majority, don't support interfering with, or overthrowing, governments of other countries because we don't agree with their politics.
As I said, Canadians are much less likely to use violence, therefore that does give us some room to question those who are so inclined.
The rest of the world thinks this is true also. If you need proof, ask American tourists why some of them wear Canadian flags on their backpacks when they travel.
We're far from perfect world citizens, but trying to compare our meddling in world affairs to that of the US is ridiculous.
Only a Canadian would try to do that. Chileans, Iranians, Vietnamese, among others, would shake their heads in wonder at your foolishness.
Of course, if we start getting involved in all the little wars around the world, a maple leaf might (like the stars & stripes) become a bullseye instead of a shield.
And please, the Boer War? That was over 100 years ago. Things have changed in this country since then.
i'm an unhyphenated Canadian
darkbeaver said:
As a matter of fact, according to a news report I heard today, a majority of Canadians do not think that Canadian armed forces should be fighting in Afghanistan.
Last report I heard, the majority of American citizens still supports having US armed forces fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sometimes our government gets us into situations to please the US government, that the majority of Canadians do not agree with.
You should consider that before you start chewing on Canadians. Some of you might want to put yourself on the same level as Americans, but you don't speak for me.
cortez wrote
Do you use this condescending attitude to discredit Juan's arguments?
It doesn't work.
Canadians, these days, generally have a different attitude about how to fix world problems then the majority of Americans.
Maybe we're no better at fixing them then the US, but we aren't as ready to use violence to solve problems. That's a fact.
Canadians, in the majority, don't support interfering with, or overthrowing, governments of other countries because we don't agree with their politics.
As I said, Canadians are much less likely to use violence, therefore that does give us some room to question those who are so inclined.
The rest of the world thinks this is true also. If you need proof, ask American tourists why some of them wear Canadian flags on their backpacks when they travel.
We're far from perfect world citizens, but trying to compare our meddling in world affairs to that of the US is ridiculous.
Only a Canadian would try to do that. Chileans, Iranians, Vietnamese, among others, would shake their heads in wonder at your foolishness.
Of course, if we start getting involved in all the little wars around the world, a maple leaf might (like the stars & stripes) become a bullseye instead of a shield.
And please, the Boer War? That was over 100 years ago. Things have changed in this country since then.
i'm an unhyphenated Canadian
example vietnam
-
I agree with this in spirit at least. Vietnam was stupidity, especially as Ho Chi Minh was a US friend and ally, double-crossed in support of the French government simply to curry favour with the French people........to prevent Communists from gaining a foothold in FRANCE!
But the weapons are necessary, caution is required in their use. "The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance"
Edited to say: I also agree war is a meat grinder into which we pour resources, and human lives. I don't think the war machine serves as a good economic booster, I think it is the price we pay for security.
-
I agree with this in spirit at least. Vietnam was stupidity, especially as Ho Chi Minh was a US friend and ally, double-crossed in support of the French government simply to curry favour with the French people........to prevent Communists from gaining a foothold in FRANCE!
But the weapons are necessary, caution is required in their use. "The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance"
Edited to say: I also agree war is a meat grinder into which we pour resources, and human lives. I don't think the war machine serves as a good economic booster, I think it is the price we pay for security.
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally
Oh, so when a NATO ally is attacked, the position should be not to help, is that right? And you are proud of this, how? If the shoe was on the other foot, how do you think you would react?
Yes that's correct, leave a civil war behind?
Well when you get off your horse, let us know so we can converse.
Cortez can't speak for you but you can speak on behlaf of Americans? Interesting.
Agreed.
Which politics? Gassing Kurds? Bombing airlines?
That's also referred to as backseat politics
A myth. Do yourself a favor and stop looking foolish. Canadians run around with little flag patches on their luggage.
Really? Funny how there was an uproar in Canada when the US government refused to give reconstruction contracts to Canadian companies. No risk, no benefits.
But I bet, Koreans, Serbs and Haitians have something else to say about that.
Very likely. More backseat politics.
Haiti, Serbia anyone?
twotoques said:
Oh, so when a NATO ally is attacked, the position should be not to help, is that right? And you are proud of this, how? If the shoe was on the other foot, how do you think you would react?
twotoques said:
Yes that's correct, leave a civil war behind?
twotoques said:
Well when you get off your horse, let us know so we can converse.
twotoques said:
Cortez can't speak for you but you can speak on behlaf of Americans? Interesting.
twotoques said:
Agreed.
twotoques said:
Which politics? Gassing Kurds? Bombing airlines?
twotoques said:
That's also referred to as backseat politics
twotoques said:
A myth. Do yourself a favor and stop looking foolish. Canadians run around with little flag patches on their luggage.
twotoques said:
Really? Funny how there was an uproar in Canada when the US government refused to give reconstruction contracts to Canadian companies. No risk, no benefits.
twotoques said:
But I bet, Koreans, Serbs and Haitians have something else to say about that.
twotoques said:
Very likely. More backseat politics.
twotoques said:
Haiti, Serbia anyone?
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally
Iraq
Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq
Min 28501 - Max 32119
Vietnam
Combatants Killed in Action: 1,382,430
Civilians Killed, Vietnamese: 2,000,000
Civilians Killed, Allied: 1,000 (est.)
Afghanistan
At least 3400 dead
Gulf War
24,000-26,000 dead
Colpy said:
Iraq
Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq
Min 28501 - Max 32119
Vietnam
Combatants Killed in Action: 1,382,430
Civilians Killed, Vietnamese: 2,000,000
Civilians Killed, Allied: 1,000 (est.)
Afghanistan
At least 3400 dead
Gulf War
24,000-26,000 dead
Re: RE: Islamofascists' rally
As I said, Canadians are much less likely to use violence, therefore that does give us some room to question those who are so inclined.
The rest of the world thinks this is true also. If you need proof, ask American tourists why some of them wear Canadian flags on their backpacks when they travel.
canadians dont have to use as much violence
the dominant superpower does it for them
much of the rest of the world is as unaware of canada's complicity as you appear to be
when you travel with that backback youre unlikely to casually mention to the noncanadians you meet that canada is not as perfect as it seems from the outside
imaginary conversation:
yeah- we still have alot of problems - i mean not with the beothuk we killed every single last one of those about 150 years ago-
but like having police officers out west leave drunk native canadians outside to die of exposure
or
yeah the garcia girl 16 years old who was murdered by 2 of her classmates because she was cuban- i beleive that one was in lachute quebec
or
did you know that there were more canadians who faught with the US military in viet nam as vounteers
than US draft dodgers that came to canada
or
that the canadian governments response to canadian kids protesting the presence of SUHARTO- the war criminal indonesian
leader who presided over the E timor massacre with the canadian governments complicity was to ATTACK the students
( i could go on for ever !)
the puzzled non canadian tourist might reply
but i thought canadians were nice
well yes canadians are nicer than americans
you might reply
phew - im glad to hear that
replys the noncanadian tourist
i thank the goat-god that i am a hypenated canadian
becuase i always have the option of pretending im only one half of the equation- thats the DENIAL i permit myself
ork.twotoques said:
As I said, Canadians are much less likely to use violence, therefore that does give us some room to question those who are so inclined.
The rest of the world thinks this is true also. If you need proof, ask American tourists why some of them wear Canadian flags on their backpacks when they travel.
canadians dont have to use as much violence
the dominant superpower does it for them
much of the rest of the world is as unaware of canada's complicity as you appear to be
when you travel with that backback youre unlikely to casually mention to the noncanadians you meet that canada is not as perfect as it seems from the outside
imaginary conversation:
yeah- we still have alot of problems - i mean not with the beothuk we killed every single last one of those about 150 years ago-
but like having police officers out west leave drunk native canadians outside to die of exposure
or
yeah the garcia girl 16 years old who was murdered by 2 of her classmates because she was cuban- i beleive that one was in lachute quebec
or
did you know that there were more canadians who faught with the US military in viet nam as vounteers
than US draft dodgers that came to canada
or
that the canadian governments response to canadian kids protesting the presence of SUHARTO- the war criminal indonesian
leader who presided over the E timor massacre with the canadian governments complicity was to ATTACK the students
( i could go on for ever !)
the puzzled non canadian tourist might reply
but i thought canadians were nice
well yes canadians are nicer than americans
you might reply
phew - im glad to hear that
replys the noncanadian tourist
i thank the goat-god that i am a hypenated canadian
becuase i always have the option of pretending im only one half of the equation- thats the DENIAL i permit myself