Is there a God ?

[Pangloss]

There almost certainly is no "god" or "gods" - their creation by humankind is self-evident.

Why, after all this time, are we so foolish as to believe in a great big invisible guy in the sky who loves us but will make us burn in hell forever if we work Sunday (or is it Saturday?) and who encourages us to rape or kill those unlike us?

Why isn't the germ theory of disease in the Bible or the Koran or the Torah? Why isn't "wash your hands before eating" one of the ten commandments?

Because the humans who plagarized the local stories and made it into these "holy" books had no idea of the germ theory of infection. Shouldn't "God" have known and put it in at least one of these books?

No "god," no afterlife, no soul.

All of our meaning is right here and right now.

Pangloss

 

[Pangloss]

Look3467:

"I have faith in Him, thus He exists!"

By your logic:

"I have faith in uber-sexy sugarmommas finding me irresistible, thus they exist."

Soooo, now I don't have to go to work tomorrow?

Serious question.

Pangloss

 

[Pangloss]

Oh, yeah - why does he always need money?

And why does he even have a gender?

Pangloss

 

[Minority Observer84]

'...god is supposed to have created adam in his own image...' Still you are looking at disproving God by pointing out flaws in religion. Even if every religion on Earth is false, God can still exist. The two are not the same thing.

As for where the distinction is drawn between God and fairies.

God is a universal sense. God runs through almost every last culture, in one expression or another. People who can sense a deeper dimension to the universe explain this 'god', through limited human language and concepts.

This is not true of physical concepts such as fairies and unicorns.

Still have not answered the question just because the concept of divinty stretches through human history does not mean it's a valid or correct concept there are a host of concepts equally historic that we today reject as false. How do you distinguish between myths .

 

[Minority Observer84]

To sum it all up into one word: FAITH!

/quote]
Thank you Aj for bringing up a point that will push the conversation forward .
For faith to be rational it needs to be based on something concrete something factual , a parallell experience or trend of behaviour .
As an example i believe that my parents would support me regardless of what i said , where i lived , how i act ............ i know this based on their past reactions and parallell experience .
So my next question would be what logical or rational principle or concept do you base your faith on ?

 

[karrie]

Still have not answered the question just because the concept of divinty stretches through human history does not mean it's a valid or correct concept there are a host of concepts equally historic that we today reject as false. How do you distinguish between myths .

"People have to draw their own lines in belief" is what I answered you with. And then I explained where and why I see the god concept as varying from myths and legends. You asked. I answered. Carry on if you wish, but you'll just be running round in circles, as these debates tend to.

 

[look3467]

Look3467:

"I have faith in Him, thus He exists!"

By your logic:

"I have faith in uber-sexy sugarmommas finding me irresistible, thus they exist."

Soooo, now I don't have to go to work tomorrow?

Serious question.

Pangloss

You can have faith in whatever you want, that's your prerogative, but I choose to have faith in God, and to tell you the truth, He has met my every need.

I'd be foolish and unwise not to trust in Him from whom all my blessing flow.

I speak as my faith leads, and that been unwavering.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

To sum it all up into one word: FAITH!

/quote]
Thank you Aj for bringing up a point that will push the conversation forward .
For faith to be rational it needs to be based on something concrete something factual , a parallel experience or trend of behaviour .
As an example i believe that my parents would support me regardless of what i said , where i lived , how i act ............ i know this based on their past reactions and parallel experience .
So my next question would be what logical or rational principle or concept do you base your faith on ?

Typically, I believe my faith was instilled in my DNA because as long as I can remember, I have always had faith.

DNA may not be the proper word, but in other words, a gift from God at birth.
My parents though brought me up Catholic, still they had no influence in my wanting to believe.
I pursued it all to my satisfaction.

Now I have been learning what this faith means by trial an error, this church that church, this book that book and finally, a revelation by God's Holy Spirit teaching me just what all it means.

I see many don't have that faith, but that is not to say that they are less than I. What it simply means is that it is up to the faith ones to demonstrate who, what God is, by living His attributes.

If all had the same faith than there would be no room for personal growth, since we need opposition to generate goodness and love rather than what is so easily gotten, and that is hate.

So by love demonstration, God exists in us to do good.

Life's experiences have dealt a serious blow to many who once had belief in God, but that is not to say that they don't still have the potential to grow faith.

But truly saying, by my own experiences, God is real, here with me and worthy of all my praises, attention and love.
If it weren't that I knew Him, I would prefer to not live another second, for what hope would I have in this life?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Oh, yeah - why does he always need money?

And why does he even have a gender?

Pangloss

For a guy that says he will only reply to inteligent posters.....what can i say....
god does not ask for money charletans aske for it in His name.

Man gave him, gender...different cultures give different gender as well....well i can't think of one that calls Him femine....

But there are pictures of shiva as half man and half woman...But shiva is only one third of creation...then you have Brahma and Vishnu.....

Vedic literature says those three gods make up creation.
Brahma is life, Shiva is death and Vishnu holds matter together.....

But actually even thoise Gods die and return to the lower relms....the last one who acted like Brhma was Ishvara....But he was a bit of bother...He did not like Dharma and he made it very hard for sentients to practice Dharma or learn about it...dharma is like religion ....or teaching how to attain enlightenment...any way Ishvara was a bit of bother...he lived for like forever like Brahm is now....Brahma on the other hand likes Dharma...The buddhas helped To Kill Ishvara early and Bring into the desire realm Brahma.....

 

[look3467]

There almost certainly is no "god" or "gods" - their creation by humankind is self-evident.

Self-evident is correct. For God to shine in the hearts of mankind, He must first be there by demonstration.

Why, after all this time, are we so foolish as to believe in a great big invisible guy in the sky who loves us but will make us burn in hell forever if we work Sunday (or is it Saturday?) and who encourages us to rape or kill those unlike us?>>>Pangloss

I would say it be foolish not to and here is the reasons why: Blessing come to the inner man spiritually, which translates into the physical by strength of faith, strong up-right in character, eagerness to do right, good and not evil and ruled by a conscience which dictate our every step.

The stories in the bible all fit harmoniously together if we can see them in the spiritual sense, but make no sense when seen through the eyes of the flesh.

Hell is defined in different ways in the bible, and burning is not necessarily a physical burn.

So, if answers are to be forthcoming as to the validity of and existence of God, then faith must be applied, otherwise give it up.

Why isn't the germ theory of disease in the Bible or the Koran or the Torah? Why isn't "wash your hands before eating" one of the ten commandments?>>>Pangloss

Life in the body is a paradox. We are born to die! But, while we are still alive, we can exercise faith in a God who is life, not of the world kind, but of the spiritually kind.
This exercise gives us hope in a dying world and compassion for those afflicted, causing us to want to find cures.

Because the humans who plagarized the local stories and made it into these "holy" books had no idea of the germ theory of infection. Shouldn't "God" have known and put it in at least one of these books?>>>Pangloss

What is life but a vapor? Or like the grass, it's green one season and dead the next.
Human life is by far better than all the animals and all the herbs of the world, for it holds the intelligence of God within it's spirit and worthy of attention by the all mighty God.
Not one soul, shall be lost that God can not save, but sure does make a difference when one knows Him.

No "god," no afterlife, no soul.>>>Pangloss

All of our meaning is right here and right now. That is correct, so let's do all the good we can towards our fellow human beings.



Peace>>>AJ

 

[Pangloss]

Look:

You are obviously either drunk on faith or somehow insensate to reason so I'll only say this once:

You have never answered any one of the skeptical questions directly and honestly.

That removes you from any reasoned discussion, in my books.

I know you'll try to twist this, but no matter - from now on I'll regard you as a senseless evangelist, and treat your writings accordingly.

Do you really think your "god" wants you to be a chump?

Pangloss

 

[Minority Observer84]

Typically, I believe my faith was instilled in my DNA because as long as I can remember, I have always had faith.

DNA may not be the proper word, but in other words, a gift from God at birth.
My parents though brought me up Catholic, still they had no influence in my wanting to believe.
I pursued it all to my satisfaction.

Now I have been learning what this faith means by trial an error, this church that church, this book that book and finally, a revelation by God's Holy Spirit teaching me just what all it means.

I see many don't have that faith, but that is not to say that they are less than I. What it simply means is that it is up to the faith ones to demonstrate who, what God is, by living His attributes.

If all had the same faith than there would be no room for personal growth, since we need opposition to generate goodness and love rather than what is so easily gotten, and that is hate.

So by love demonstration, God exists in us to do good.

Life's experiences have dealt a serious blow to many who once had belief in God, but that is not to say that they don't still have the potential to grow faith.

But truly saying, by my own experiences, God is real, here with me and worthy of all my praises, attention and love.
If it weren't that I knew Him, I would prefer to not live another second, for what hope would I have in this life?

Peace>>>AJ

So what your saying is your faith is based on more faith so much for rational thinking .

 

[look3467]

So what your saying is your faith is based on more faith so much for rational thinking .

I guess you could say that. But you know something about my thinking is that it encompasses all other thinking as a given right to the individual owner. Where as before as a religious believer, I limited all of opposing opinions as lost and going to hell.

I can freely now engage in conversations with anybody who's views are radically different than mine, and I can still find them as important to God as my own soul.

My understanding of God now is of total love for mankind regardless of what mankind believes.

You see, since God created the first parents, He was responsible for their behavior by placing the tree of knowledge in mankind's way to be a part of mankind's life.

Mankind had no choice in the matter thus makes God solely responsible for every living soul that ever broke the womb.

Death came as a result of being born in the flesh and death of the spirit because of knowledge.

God knew this all along and in due time He presented a remedy for all mankind so as to reconcile mankind back unto Himself in one perfect body of obedience.

You all may not want any part of what I am saying, but I can tell you this much, my attitude has changed since I have received new understandings to that of a God like view of humanity.

You and all others who debate on this forum are entitled to believe whatever you desire as a gift of God.

I am honoring that gift by respecting all views.

If I can help make better someones life by demonstration what the love of God is, then that would be to me a great accomplishment.

I don't demand that anyone believe as I do, for I see them all covered by the same blood of Christ: NO EXCEPTIONS!

As for rational thinking? Well faith requires absolute trust, belief and reliance on what God says.

But in that He gives understanding of such as I am demonstrating.

Tell me if you will, where you can find a staunch believer in Christ that does not condemn all who do not believe in Him?

Well, here you have one, and to you and every-body's credit, you are esteemed better than I.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Minority Observer84]

All i wanted to prove was that belief in god is irrational i rest my case , your tolerance of others does not account for the lack of any reasonable or logical foundations to your beliefs your entitled to think as you will but it is irrational .

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

All i wanted to prove was that belief in god is irrational i rest my case , your tolerance of others does not account for the lack of any reasonable or logical foundations to your beliefs your entitled to think as you will but it is irrational .

look it's expected from an evengelical person do this . He was told to shout it from the roof tops....it's actually quite fun for them....
but you are never going to deviate them from hardcore ... ---...---...---...

 

[Curiosity]

Look3467 - AJ

What I want to know is how come some people here are "Loved by you" and "some not" ???

 

[look3467]

Look3467 - AJ

What I want to know is how come some people here are "Loved by you" and "some not" ???

You know curiosity, to be loved by everyone is a wonderful thing. Fortunately, it is not that way.

If I were loved than what gain would it make? Stroke my ego?"

But rather, I prefer to be somewhat different in that it allows for open discussion of the things which I consider important.

Those little green squares are nice to have besides ones name but I claim nothing other than sharing the good news.

Peace>>>AJ

Opposition is a good thing, never will it go away as long as there is flesh.

Think about it for a second: If there were not such a thing as good and evil, than there would be no God!
To know good and evil is to be like God!

Are you not able to make your own choices, create your own little kingdom in this world?

That ability to choose is a gift from God.

Believe it or not, that gift still remains as from God.

 

[look3467]

look it's expected from an evengelical person do this . He was told to shout it from the roof tops....it's actually quite fun for them....
but you are never going to deviate them from hardcore ... ---...---...---...

You know Doc that your right except that this one old man is not shouting but sharing.

As far as for my absolute determination to be moved not from my staunch belief in Christ, is nonnegotiable, even to the death!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Pangloss]

Folks:

The reason why none of us should ever consider writing to look3467 as anything other than throwing good words after bad, or shouting at the deaf is his own writing:

As far as for my absolute determination to be moved not from my staunch belief in Christ, is nonnegotiable, even to the death!


The problem with that stand is he has just said that even if you deviate one jot, one tittle from what he already believes, he will ignore you, gainsay you, or indulge in semantic prestidigitation in order to talk to his agenda, and his agenda only.

That is not discussion, that is bullying - made worse by words like "peace" and "love" in his messages.

If I'm wrong, look - let your god strike me down before I finish this senten

Just kidding. How could a non-existent entity made up of other culture's fables hurt me?

Pangloss

 

[talloola]

I am a truly free thinking person of this earth, and I happen to be a woman.

No god loves me, I know that. At this place in time, now that we have come along to be stronger
and more free, (as women), it is amazing to look back through history, and notice how everything
in power seems to be male. People decided that their god should be male, the male
of the species put the female of the species on a lower shelf.

We don't accept that any more, the only thing we can't control is the 'physical' strength difference.
But, because males are physically stronger, they should not be put on a higher pedestal than women.
They are not smarter, or more capable of making a good life, we can do that 'together', and respect
each other for that.

I am an earthling, no male god, or male anything else is more powerful than I. My husband and I are
equal, and I feel free with that thought. We give each other full independency, so, in return for
that, we feel comfortable in our marriage.

I refuse to live my life bowing or preying to a male god, or any other god. Our earth has no gender, but is very alive, and I honor that.

There are many places on this earth, still, where the male of the species still bullies and dominates the female, and their excuse for that seems to be in the name of ala, and that saddens me, just as it saddens me that, in the eyes of many, we should bow
and prey to a god. Women and children haven't faired very well under that 'man made' law.

No thanks.

Guess you know my answer to the question by now.