Is Obama the worst president ever?

[Slim Chance]

Bush did nothing to prevent serious errosion of constitutional protections and let the financial sector run wild resulting in an international economic meltdown that American taxpayers have been forced to foot much of the bill for.

That scenario didn't start with Bush.. If you seek to represent any objectivity on the financial melt-down, place the blame equally on all the American leaders that contributed to the crash.

What you have stated is blind partisanship.

What has Obama done:

Well he's tried to patch up international relations torn apart by the last adminstration.

Trying and doing are two separate things

He's tried to bring healthcare reform to America, something that has clearly been needed for years, treating illness as just another commodity to be traded and profited on is just as shortsighted as the subprime debacle.

This program will have massive negative economic ramifications for generations to come.

Interesting comment about treating healthcare as a commodity... Let's reverse the perspective, Where do you draw the line between personal responsibility and entitlement?

Factor in the reality that any private or public system can not exist without an input of capital, the only solution will be to place a greater tax burden on the middle and upper income earners to support the program.

At some point, people get tired of being penalized for making more money than their neighbours and either quit working as hard to make more, or that money leaves... Either way, it's represents less cash available to fund the overall system.

I don't hear many on the right complaining about excesses at the top of the business world, but god help any politician who actually tries to spread the wealth around even a little.

The government is already a silent partner in all businesses by virtue of the tax system, they make sure they get their cut regardless of the economy... Funny thing about that though, generally speaking, they don't share in any of the risk associated with those ventures.

The point is that government already spreads around about 1/2 the wealth from those companies and now is condemning those persons that spent their cash, took the risks and now are getting their pay-day.

 

[Icarus27k]

A couple days warning that "one of the strongest hurricanes ever seen is about to hit"... Where were the state officials on this? How about the opposition in government ringing the alarm bells?

You've applied the sole responsibility to this on Bush based on the presumption that he and his government absolutely knew what was to come and then made the decision to not take pre-emptive action.

Doesn't really make that much sense, does it?

I hope he and his government knew what was to come because anyone watching TV that weekend before Katrina struck knew what was coming.

It makes perfect sense to say, "The buck stops at the President". In fact, it was a President that said this. Just trying to deflect blame on others, or trying to take down others along with you, is hardly the courage needed in a person who is up to the job of POTUS.

Anything less than "Katrina was one of the greatest presidential inactions in US history, and we were never up to the job of facing it" from Bush or his subordinates just further proves their cowardice and irresponsibility.

It's crazy NOT to blame Bush in some of the harshest language possible because the merits of what happened with Katrina require it.

 

[ironsides]

" I[SIZE=-1]N[/SIZE] a field one summer’s day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart’s content. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.[SIZE=-2] 1[/SIZE] “Why not come and chat with me,” said the Grasshopper, “instead of toiling and moiling in that way?”[SIZE=-2] 2[/SIZE] “I am helping to lay up food for the winter,” said the Ant, “and recommend you to do the same.”[SIZE=-2] 3[/SIZE] “Why bother about winter?” said the Grasshopper; “we have got plenty of food at present.” But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil. When the winter came the Grasshopper had no food, and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing every day corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer. Then the Grasshopper knew:
[SIZE=-1]“IT IS BEST TO PREPARE FOR THE DAYS OF NECESSITY.”[/SIZE]

 

[Icarus27k]

Still, if a President doesn't want to get called out for being cowardly, irresponsible, and completely lacking in leadership skills, then actually face a coming disaster.

It is a, you know, grown-up job for grown-ups.

 

[Machjo]

" I[SIZE=-1]N[/SIZE] a field one summer’s day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart’s content. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.[SIZE=-2] 1[/SIZE] “Why not come and chat with me,” said the Grasshopper, “instead of toiling and moiling in that way?”[SIZE=-2] 2[/SIZE] “I am helping to lay up food for the winter,” said the Ant, “and recommend you to do the same.”[SIZE=-2] 3[/SIZE] “Why bother about winter?” said the Grasshopper; “we have got plenty of food at present.” But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil. When the winter came the Grasshopper had no food, and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing every day corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer. Then the Grasshopper knew:
[SIZE=-1]“IT IS BEST TO PREPARE FOR THE DAYS OF NECESSITY.”[/SIZE]

Yes, but the story could also go:

" I[SIZE=-1]N[/SIZE] a field one summer’s day a Grasshopper was bearing along with great toil many sharpened sticks he was taking to his army. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.[SIZE=-2] 1[/SIZE] “Why not come and sharpen more sticks with me,” said the Grasshopper, “instead of toiling over an ear of corn?”[SIZE=-2] 2[/SIZE] “I am helping to lay up food for the winter,” said the Ant, “and recommend you to do the same.”[SIZE=-2] 3[/SIZE] “Why bother about winter?” said the Grasshopper; “we could be attacked at any moment from any number of strange beasts.” But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil. When the winter came the Grasshopper had no food, and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing every day corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer. Then the Grasshopper knew:
[SIZE=-1]“IT IS BEST TO PREPARE FOR REAL TIMES OF NECESSITY AND NOT IMAGINED ONES.”[/SIZE]


Or I suppose we could also end the story thus:

Then the grasshopper made up a story about the ants having pebbles they intended to throw at them and so talked the other grasshoppers into launching preemptive strikes against the grasshoppers, thus ensuring military superiority.

Sooner or later though, the ants will grow in number and the grasshopper will have no more allies.

 

[ironsides]

You Bush haters just can't let go can you? Again I ask what did he do wrong, did he create Katrina, did he delay calling for or requesting federal aid sending any response teams, was he the one who kept the bus's in their parking lots. Again, how did Bush do anything wrong, except thinking that the mayor and governor would have started a proper disaster response. It is unconstitutional for a President to interfere with states without the governor requesting their help or the state goverment has collapsed.

 

[Slim Chance]

I hope he and his government knew what was to come because anyone watching TV that weekend before Katrina struck knew what was coming.

... And yet, the entire state of Louisiana sat and just waited for this impending doom?.. Everyone "knew" what was coming, right? How do you explain this?

Why didn't the state do something the moment that they knew that the hurricane would veer from it's traditional path that they've experienced for hundreds of years?

If the citizens and the state were not concerned, how does it make sense that Bush should have taken action?

Anything less than "Katrina was one of the greatest presidential inactions in US history, and we were never up to the job of facing it" from Bush or his subordinates just further proves their cowardice and irresponsibility.

Much of that reference is based on the reality that the levies were no longer considered at standard. Further, the fact that the city of New Orleans was constructed on a tidal flood plain that wouldn't exist without those levies.

The reference you provided goes much deeper than simply commenting on the actions of Bush at the moment that the hurricane struck - it refers to the notion that this was a disaster just waiting to happen.

 

[AnnaG]

Personally, I think Katrina was the fault of the weatherman. The dismal reaction to Katrina was the fault of municipal, state, and federal people (of which Bush was only one).

 

[Machjo]

Give bush a break. He was busy learning grammar and lexicon:

Bushisms - Funny George Bush Quotes Updated Frequently

 

[Slim Chance]

Personally, I think Katrina was the fault of the weatherman. The dismal reaction to Katrina was the fault of municipal, state, and federal people (of which Bush was only one).

This is the most sane and reasonable response to Katrina on this thread.

 

[Icarus27k]

You Bush haters just can't let go can you? Again I ask what did he do wrong, did he create Katrina, did he delay calling for or requesting federal aid sending any response teams, was he the one who kept the bus's in their parking lots. Again, how did Bush do anything wrong, except thinking that the mayor and governor would have started a proper disaster response. It is unconstitutional for a President to interfere with states without the governor requesting their help or the state goverment has collapsed.

Every reponsible President I know of (indeed actual Presidents; Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford) would have been in Baton Rouge two days before Katrina struck, directing FEMA and the Corps of Engineers about what to be doing.

It is pretty egregious that Bush even has anything close to defenders on this. The logic of the defense is literally claiming that one doesn't know what obviously should be done. Bush comes off as so inept and ignorant in the defense, that it's insane.

 

[AnnaG]

Every reponsible President I know of (indeed actual Presidents; Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford) would have been in Baton Rouge two days before Katrina struck, directing FEMA and the Corps of Engineers about what to be doing.

That's extremely inefficient. At best they should be there to offer support, not take over jobs from experts.

It is pretty egregious that Bush even has anything close to defenders on this. The logic of the defense is literally claiming that one doesn't know what obviously should be done. Bush comes off as so inept and ignorant in the defense, that it's insane.

And yet you expected him to have rushed to New Orleans to direct everything? roflmao

 

[JLM]

Every reponsible President I know of (indeed actual Presidents; Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford) would have been in Baton Rouge two days before Katrina struck, directing FEMA and the Corps of Engineers about what to be doing.

.

Or at least delegated it to someone responsible like Cheney.

 

[Icarus27k]

The FEMA and Army Corps of Engineer guys are the experts. Or at least, in a responsible government, they're supposed to be.

And I'm not the one making the case that Bush was completely inept and ignorant. That is the end logic of the individuals who offer a defense of Bush and his Katrina actions/inactions.

 

[AnnaG]

The FEMA and Army Corps of Engineer guys are the experts. Or at least, in a responsible government, they're supposed to be.

Yet you said that any reasonable president should rush there and be the one directing things rather than these experts.

And I'm not the one making the case that Bush was completely inept and ignorant. That is the end logic of the individuals who offer a defense of Bush and his Katrina actions/inactions.

So what's your defense of Bush's incompetence?

 

[Icarus27k]

Yet you said that any reasonable president should rush there and be the one directing things rather than these experts.

I said no such thing. I said any responsible POTUS should rush to Baton Rouge in the two days notice before Katrina struck and direct FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers about what to do. Since the POTUS is the ultimate leader of FEMA and the Army Corps of Eningeers, he's responsible about knowing their operations.

I made no distinction between the POTUS and the experts of the two governmental agencies like your assessment of what I said implies.

 

[AnnaG]

I said no such thing. I said any responsible POTUS should rush to Baton Rouge in the two days notice before Katrina struck and direct FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers about what to do. Since the POTUS is the ultimate leader of FEMA and the Army Corps of Eningeers, he's responsible about knowing their operations.

I made no distinction between the POTUS and the experts of the two governmental agencies like your assessment of what I said implies.

Then what was this?

Every reponsible President I know of (indeed actual Presidents; Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford) would have been in Baton Rouge two days before Katrina struck, directing FEMA and the Corps of Engineers about what to be doing.

 

[Icarus27k]

I don't see a distinction there. Rather just a statement of what is obvious: the POTUS is the ultimate leader of FEMA and the Corps of Engineers and should know something about their operations.

You yourself quoted two of my posts saying the same thing.

 

[AnnaG]

I don't see a distinction there. Rather just a statement of what is obvious: the POTUS is the ultimate leader of FEMA and the Corps of Engineers and should know something about their operations.

You yourself quoted two of my posts saying the same thing.

:roll: So presidents are the experts at disasters? Sorry, but I don't think so. I think the experts at dealing with disasters would rather not have political interference.
Presidents should offer support (as in "how much money do you experts need to do this job"?), not interference.

Get it now?

Besides, I didn't know what a POTUS was because there's no reference to it on this page..

 

[Icarus27k]

I think it's obvious that the President has to know about disasters. Any political leader of that status should. I don't see how anyone can seriously dispute that.