Is Obama a bully?

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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48
Ontario
Ag, Au and U have done me very very very well over the past 9 years. The worse the stocks get the more I'm worth. When everything else craps out 2 of those three are the only way to stay safe.

You mean you bought these metals? Then you have done very well indeed. I do have some gold (bought at around 250 dollars an ounce) and it has appreciated nicely.

A well diversified portfolio should have everything in it, so I do have some gold coins (Krugerands and Canadian Maple Leafs) and gold bullion.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.
Ag, Au and U have done me very very very well over the past 9 years. The worse the stocks get the more I'm worth. When everything else craps out 2 of those three are the only way to stay safe.


Yep, Canadian Natural Resources- I doubt if they are the ONLY way to stay safe. One wealthy man who retired a millionaire at age 35 invested in nothing but ordinary everyday things like tooth paste, soap etc. because in bad times those are commodies that will always be in demand.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Low Earth Orbit
Yep, Canadian Natural Resources- I doubt if they are the ONLY way to stay safe. One wealthy man who retired a millionaire at age 35 invested in nothing but ordinary everyday things like tooth paste, soap etc. because in bad times those are commodies that will always be in demand.
Yuuuuup and people who are desperate will selling wedding rings, necklaces, tea sets, silverware to buy toothpaste, soap, etc when the options are few and I'll gladly buy their wedding rings, necklaces, ear rings, fillings, tea sets and silverware.

Get yourself a couple sheep skins and sink them in the Kettle for the winter. Come spring drag them to the river bank and see what your golden fleece will bring you.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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You mean you bought these metals? Then you have done very well indeed. I do have some gold (bought at around 250 dollars an ounce) and it has appreciated nicely.

A well diversified portfolio should have everything in it, so I do have some gold coins (Krugerands and Canadian Maple Leafs) and gold bullion.

I sold my gold about a week after 9/11, probably not the best timing, but I did it when our dollar was rock bottom.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Yuuuuup and people who are desperate will selling wedding rings, necklaces, tea sets, silverware to buy toothpaste, soap, etc when the options are few and I'll gladly buy their wedding rings, necklaces, ear rings, fillings, tea sets and silverware.

Yeah, but a guy would feel like a bit of a sh*t doing it.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Yeah, but a guy would feel like a bit of a sh*t doing it.
Why? If they thought they were smart enough and well off enough to go blow their money on bling bling instead of paying down their mortgage or other debts but blew it on wants instead of needs why would I feel sorry for them?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Why? If they thought they were smart enough and well off enough to go blow their money on bling bling instead of paying down their mortgage or other debts but blew it on wants instead of needs why would I feel sorry for them?

Not always that cut and dried, maybe they had sickness or lost a job or both, I think if a woman was trying to sell me her diamond ring to buy soap, I'd probably be a sucker and just give her a couple of bars of soap. Now if it was Bernie Madoff, that would be a lot different.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Wasn't that bad, gold is bought and sold in U.S. dollars & I'd bought when our buck was much higher.
Not that bad? What is considered horrible?





Word of advice....silver will hit $30+ by year end. Next month electronic gadgets, doodads and jewellry for C-mas go into mass production.

With all the emissions scubbers being fitted for industry platinum isn't going to get any cheaper either.

Then there is rhodium and palladium

The coming devaluation of the US dollar will send precious metals skyrocketing even further.

Go to the post office and grab yourself a few gold maples. They come in 1oz, 1/2, 1/4, 1/10 and 1/20. If not that brave try a couple silver or olympic maples.

You won't regret it.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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"Not that bad? What is considered horrible?"

When you dump it for considerably less than you bought it for. A smart person would have bought lots of gold when our dollar reached $1.10 U.S.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Nakusp, BC
"Not that bad? What is considered horrible?"

When you dump it for considerably less than you bought it for. A smart person would have bought lots of gold when our dollar reached $1.10 U.S.

You have insomnia too, eh! Good mornin'. How's things in the lower forty? This weekend is music fest here. Don't think it will be a quiet town till next Monday.

The only investments I ever made are in used computers. I have a half dozen of them in my living room. I just received 100 copies of my latest book which is selling really well. I am more flush now than I have ever been in my life. Recession, what recession? I have lived so far below the poverty line for the past forty years that it will take a complete meltdown of the economy to show up in my world.

That is why I invested ten years in learning how to survive in the bush. I saw this coming back in the seventies. Just biding my time til the crap hits the fan completely.
If it doesn't, I will still be OK.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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You have insomnia too, eh! Good mornin'. How's things in the lower forty? This weekend is music fest here. Don't think it will be a quiet town till next Monday.

The only investments I ever made are in used computers. I have a half dozen of them in my living room. I just received 100 copies of my latest book which is selling really well. I am more flush now than I have ever been in my life. Recession, what recession? I have lived so far below the poverty line for the past forty years that it will take a complete meltdown of the economy to show up in my world.

That is why I invested ten years in learning how to survive in the bush. I saw this coming back in the seventies. Just biding my time til the crap hits the fan completely.
If it doesn't, I will still be OK.

Yep, afraid so, I've rarely slept past 5 A.M. and generally am up anywhere between 3 and 5- no wonder I'm conked out by 10 PM. My sentiments exactly about the economy, I always wondered how so many people have so much money to spend when we are on the brink of disaster, but now I know since this sub prime charade in the U.S. reared it's head. Although we don't have that exactly in Canada, we still have a situation of people able to borrow and spend money they don't have. But hey the banks plan it that way, as long as they are getting $10 or $50 or $500 a month out of you they don't care- they own you. Enjoy the music Cliff.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
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United States
Yes, Obama is a Bully.

Obama Health Plan to Cover 12 Million Illegals

Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:32 PM

By: David A. Patten





On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama.
The House Ways and Means Committee nixed the Heller amendment by a 26-to-15 vote along straight party lines, and followed this action by passing the 1,018-page bill early Friday morning by a 23-to-18 margin, with three Democrats voting against the plan.
The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America – a significant portion of whom are illegal aliens.
According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, costs under the Obama plan being proposed by the House will saddle citizens with $1.04 trillion in new federal outlays over the next decade.
Congressional Democrats and Obama have argued that their health plan is necessary to contain rising health care costs.
But, last Thursday, CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf testified before the Senate Budget Committee and warned lawmakers that the proposed “legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs."
A key factor increasing costs is that Democratic plan provides for blanket coverage to as much as 15 percent of the U.S. population not currently insured, including illegals.
Democrats had insisted throughout the health-care reform debate that illegals would be ineligible for the so-called public option plan that is to be subsidized by taxpayers.
"We're not going to cover undocumented aliens, undocumented workers," Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, told reporters in May. "That's too politically explosive."
Republicans, however, point out that the Democrats, by refusing to accept the Heller amendment, would deny health agencies from conducting simple database checks to verify citizenship. Many states give illegals driver licenses, which will be sufficient to get free health care under the plan.
Critics also contend that millions of illegals who already have counterfeit Social Security cards or other fraudulent documents. There is no enforcement mechanism in the legislation, experts say, to prevent illegals who use fake IDs to obtain jobs from also obtaining taxpayer-subsidized health insurance.
GOP representatives introduced the amendment to provide a way to weed out non-citizens from the program.
A description of the amendment on Heller's Web site state it would "better screen applicants for subsidized health care to ensure they are actually citizens or otherwise entitled to it."
The Web post added, "The underlying bill is insufficient for the purpose of preventing illegal aliens from accessing the bill’s proposed benefits, as it does not provide mechanisms allowing those administering the program to ensure illegal aliens cannot access taxpayer-funded subsidies and benefits."
The Heller amendment would have required that individuals applying for the public health care option would be subject to two systems used to verify immigration status already in use by the government: The Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program.

The two systems cross-reference Social Security numbers and employment information to establish whether an individual is a U.S. citizen.

Critics: Free Health Care Means More Illegals

A recent Rasmussen Reports poll found that an overwhelming 80 percent of Americans oppose covering illegals in any public health care bill.
Anti-immigration activists say the availability of low-cost benefits, including health insurance and in-state tuition, will only lure more immigrants to come to the United States.
Political analyst Dick Morris, in his recently released best-selling book “Catastrophe”, warns that giving illegal free health care will lead to a flood of new illegals who can take advantage of such a benefit not offered in their home countries.
William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration, agrees with that sentiment, writing, "Each state and federal elected official must know that illegal aliens should not be given licenses, in-state tuition, mortgages, bank accounts, welfare, or any other benefit short of emergency medical care and law enforcement accommodations before they are deported."
But a small fraction of illegals end up deported, as many make widespread use of fake IDs to easily gain access to government benefits programs.
"Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment," wrote Ronald W. Mortensen in a recent Center for Immigration Studies research paper. Mortensen says one of the big misconceptions about illegals is that they are undocumented.
James R. Edwards Jr., co-author of The Congressional Politics of Immigration Reform, recently wrote on National Review Online that "it's hard to envision how health reform can avoid tripping the immigration booby trap."
Edwards says none of the legislation under consideration actually requires any state, federal, or local agency to check the immigration status of those who apply for the program.
The assumption is that companies have vetted their employees to ensure they are eligibility for legal employment – a difficult task for employers given the active market in fraudulent documents. Thus Edwards maintains "some of the money distributed … inevitably would go to illegal aliens."
The estimates of illegal aliens in the United States without health insurance vary. The most commonly cited statistic, attributed to the Center for Immigration Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau, holds that 15 percent to 22 percent of the nation's 46 million uninsured are illegal aliens. That would be between 6.9 million and 10.1 million people. During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama claimed the nation United States has 12 million or more undocumented aliens.
John Sheils of the Lewin Group, a health care consulting firm owned by UnitedHealth Group, recently told National Public Radio that about 6.1 million illegals – about half of all illegals in the United States – lack documentation and therefore would not be legally eligible for benefits under the current health care reforms.
Sheils says the other half of the nation's illegals – 5 million to 6 million – use false documents to obtain on-the-books employment. Many of them are already insured under their employers' plans, he added.
"A lot of those people are getting employer health benefits as part of their compensation," Sheils told NPR.
Certainly, some contend that undocumented workers who are gainfully employed and receiving benefits such as health insurance are contributing to society. But the fact remains that, once equipped with a fake ID, a person in the United States illegally can obtain both a job and the benefits that go with it.
Estimates of the cost of providing illegals with medical care vary. Most uninsured illegals who need medical attention obtain it from hospital emergency rooms. And several states are already straining under the huge burden of paying for the health costs of illegal aliens.
According to the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), in 2004 California's estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care was $1.4 billion. Texas estimated its cost at $850 million annually, and Arizona at $400 million.
Non-border states shoulder heavy burdens as well. Virginia's annual cost of providing health care for undocumented workers is approximately $100 million per year, FAIR reports, while Florida's health care cost is about $300 million annually.
One of the ironies of the proposed legislation is that it would fine American citizens who opt not to purchase insurance coverage, but would exempt illegals from such fines. This is presumably due to the fact that they are not supposed to participate in the program anyway.
Even if no illegals were likely to benefit from health care reform, Democrats have made it clear that amnesty is the next item on their ambitious legislative agenda.
"I've got to do health care, I've got to do energy, and then I'm looking very closely at doing immigration," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., declared in June.
Reid explained the urgent need for amnesty in terms very similar to those that Democrats have used to press for health care reform. "We have an immigration system that's broken and needs repair," Reid said.
Immigration expert Edwards, for one, says health-care reform may itself need serious medical attention before it is healthy enough pass through Congress.
"The American people may soon realize how much health reform will benefit immigrants and cost the native-born," he writes. "When that happens, the volatile politics of immigration could derail universal health care."