Is Jesus A Prophet According To The Old Testament?

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
562
4
18
Quebec
The law of non contradiction does not apply when truth is unknowable, alley.



Only when truth is knowable. When the truth is unknowable, assigning several values to the truth is no better or worse than assigning one value to it (or assigning no value). When the truth is unknowable, one may assign as many value to it as one wishes, there is no way to prove it right or wrong.



I know no such thing. I think Applism is false, because I conjured it out of thin air. But am I absolutely positive, absolutely certain that it is false? No, I am not, for the simple reason that we don’t know the truth. Since truth is unknowable, Applism has as much claim to the truth as Christianity.


A thread about Jesus will never be about knowing the truth but about doing it.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
What you don't understand is that faith (in the infallibility of the Bible) means freedom (from the tyranny of evidences).
This makes me think you've been trained by Jesuits, that's certainly sophistry worthy of them. The Bible cannot possibly be infallible because, first, it's not even internally consistent, and second, it contains claims we know to be false. And we know they're false because we have evidence that says so. The tyranny is faith, not evidence. Evidence will show you what's true about the world, faith will simply tell you what's true and ignore evidence to the contrary. Faith is both the argument from authority and the argument from ignorance, well known logical fallacies.

The story of Doubting Thomas does not in the slightest support your position. Thomas insisted on seeing Jesus and inspecting his injuries before he'd believe the other disciples' tale that Jesus had risen from the dead, then he did see Jesus and decided that was good enough. I think that would have convinced even me, but I don't for a second believe the story is true either. Nothing in the New Testament was written by anyone who actually knew Jesus, the earliest date historians put on any of it is around the year 70, about two generations after the crucifixion. The stories have been significantly embellished, by people writing with an agenda.
 

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
562
4
18
Quebec
This makes me think you've been trained by Jesuits, that's certainly sophistry worthy of them. The Bible cannot possibly be infallible because, first, it's not even internally consistent, and second, it contains claims we know to be false. And we know they're false because we have evidence that says so. The tyranny is faith, not evidence. Evidence will show you what's true about the world, faith will simply tell you what's true and ignore evidence to the contrary. Faith is both the argument from authority and the argument from ignorance, well known logical fallacies.

The story of Doubting Thomas does not in the slightest support your position. Thomas insisted on seeing Jesus and inspecting his injuries before he'd believe the other disciples' tale that Jesus had risen from the dead, then he did see Jesus and decided that was good enough. I think that would have convinced even me, but I don't for a second believe the story is true either. Nothing in the New Testament was written by anyone who actually knew Jesus, the earliest date historians put on any of it is around the year 70, about two generations after the crucifixion. The stories have been significantly embellished, by people writing with an agenda.

The Holy Spirit is all that remained after Jesus' death. The Holy Spirit is the just the name of the community of Christians. The people who stayed in love with Jesus even after his violent death have, by their faith and actions, made the truth, that is, they have destroyed the false efficacy of scapegoating.
 
Last edited:

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
The Holy Spirit is all that remained after Jesus' death. The Holy Spirit is the just the name of the community of Christians. The people who stayed in love with Jesus even after his violent death have, by their faith and actions, made the truth, that is, they have destroyed the false efficacy of scapegoating.
Interesting perspective, strongly at variance with standard Christian dogma, but I don't see that it has any relevance as a response to the post of mine you cited above it.
 

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
562
4
18
Quebec
Perhaps to your view of life and whatnot, but not to mine or anyone who values reality over fantasy.

Magritte was valuing reality over fantasy:

 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Magritte was valuing reality over fantasy:

Like I said, some do and some don't.
I prefer reality; stuff like planets revolving around suns, water as H2O rather than some mysterious substance that quenches our thirst, chemical analysis of poisonous substances rather than trial and error by taste test, welcoming the herbology of pagans rather than burning them as witches. etc.
 

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
562
4
18
Quebec
Like I said, some do and some don't.
I prefer reality; stuff like planets revolving around suns, water as H2O rather than some mysterious substance that quenches our thirst, chemical analysis of poisonous substances rather than trial and error by taste test, welcoming the herbology of pagans rather than burning them as witches. etc.

There is an irreconcilable difference in between science and shamanism and it was made possible by Christians.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
First half true, second half crap. Science and any form of mysticism are utterly irreconcilable, but Christianity has tried consistently to suppress science from the beginning, and certain elements of it continue to fight a losing rearguard action against evolution.
 
Last edited:

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
562
4
18
Quebec
First half true, second half crap. Science and any form of mysticism are utterly irreconcilable, but Christianity has tried consistently to suppress science from the beginning, and certain elements of it continue to fight a losing rearguard action against evolution.​

Christians have always played fully on the fact that what is forbidden becomes attractive.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
There is an irreconcilable difference in between science and shamanism and it was made possible by Christians.
lol That's an opinion. So?
What's this bit about realities and fantasies, herbologists, shamanism, and science have to do with whether the Jew with the Puerto Rican name is in the old testament or not?
You sure like to sidetrack topics a lot.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Christians have always played fully on the fact that what is forbidden becomes attractive.
Maybe. But Christianity has always preferred people to remain ignorant about our universe and how it works, as well as how it came about and developed. Why? Because Christianity's statements about those topics are pretty much nothing but fantasy.
 

eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
Maybe. But Christianity has always preferred people to remain ignorant about our universe and how it works, as well as how it came about and developed. Why? Because Christianity's statements about those topics are pretty much nothing but fantasy.


The old Christianity's statements about the universe were not revealed from God or said by Jesus Christ; but such statements were adopted by the chruch from the Greek philosophers and scientists at their time, like Aristotle and others.

And this in fact was the mistake; because what is revealed from God is other than what some scientists at some time periods say because the latter is liable to mistakes and alterations and new discoveries that will cancel the old concepts of the old scientists.
 

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
562
4
18
Quebec
lol That's an opinion. So?
What's this bit about realities and fantasies, herbologists, shamanism, and science have to do with whether the Jew with the Puerto Rican name is in the old testament or not?
You sure like to sidetrack topics a lot.

Yeshua Ben Yosef doesn't sound terribly latino.