Is Everyone Happy With Our New Government??
- Thread starter #juan
- Start date
Whoah, get a grip!!!
I'm as left as the next person and find Stephen Harperto be a radical ideologue, but Paul Martin was hardly left-wing. He ran the most fiscally conservative Fianace Ministry ever, cut more social spending than any PC Prime Minister, offered more tax cuts to the well-to-do and in action was far more pro-American than the silly Liberals know.
With a weak minority government and a Liberal Senate, Harper will probably be less of a threat to social democrats than Chretien's governments were. Hysteria about Harper in the face of Martin's track record just makes you look silly.
Re: RE: Is Everyone Happy With Our New Government??
Well they don't pay sell taxes thats for sure. I live near a reserve and When I go to Chateaugay I see them at the zellers with their native ID card filling a form so the taxes are refunded on the spot for them. And Chateaugay ain't on the reserve.
tracy said:
Well they don't pay sell taxes thats for sure. I live near a reserve and When I go to Chateaugay I see them at the zellers with their native ID card filling a form so the taxes are refunded on the spot for them. And Chateaugay ain't on the reserve.
I am not totally happy, but I'm not totally devastated either. I don't like the idea of a CPC government, minority or not. However, I was very pleased to see how well the NDP did, and I am also glad that the Liberals didn't lose as many seats as they thought they would. I think Martin did the right thing by stepping down, and now maybe the Liberals will have time to clean up their act and appoint a vibrant, robust new leader that will sweep the nation next time around like Trudeau (yeah right).
I am glad to see the Bloc lose those seats. Next time, hopefully, they will lose many more (to some New Democrats).
I am glad to see the Bloc lose those seats. Next time, hopefully, they will lose many more (to some New Democrats).
I'm not happy, but I'm not upset. I'm content. Having a change in government will be good for the country in the long run. The Conservative minority that Harper won yesterday is not solid at all, meaning that he will need cooperation from the left-to-centre parties which is sure to keep his actions in check.
I expect and hope this government will last longer than the last; especially with the departure of Mr. Martin. This will be a great chance for the Liberals to clean house and rebuild.
I think the NDP and Green Party got screwed, their proportion of the popular voted was vastly different from the number of seats they actually got. It would have been better if the NDP had won 2 more seats to really give them the balance of power, but oh well, such is life.
Things will work out as they always do. We elected a Tory government last night and by my surprise the sun still rose this morning!
As a Liberal, I will respect Mr. Harper as my Prime Minister as long as he governs fairly, honestly and with intelligence. Mr. Harper, I will be watching you!
I expect and hope this government will last longer than the last; especially with the departure of Mr. Martin. This will be a great chance for the Liberals to clean house and rebuild.
I think the NDP and Green Party got screwed, their proportion of the popular voted was vastly different from the number of seats they actually got. It would have been better if the NDP had won 2 more seats to really give them the balance of power, but oh well, such is life.
Things will work out as they always do. We elected a Tory government last night and by my surprise the sun still rose this morning!
As a Liberal, I will respect Mr. Harper as my Prime Minister as long as he governs fairly, honestly and with intelligence. Mr. Harper, I will be watching you!
Re: RE: Is Everyone Happy With Our New Government??
I just think it's important to be clear that even status indians pay taxes for money earned off the reserve. If a status indian is working with you in a job off the reserve, they are paying taxes too. To me, this is one of the worst misconceptions about natives because a lot of people think they don't pay taxes (when they do) so they shouldn't have a say in government. It reinforces the stereotype of natives as freeloaders.
Sales taxes depend on the province as do many other benefits. GST is generally not charged if the goods are purchased by a status indian on the reserve or if the goods will be delievered to a reserve by the vendor or an agent of the vendor. Otherwise it is charged.
Jay said:
I just think it's important to be clear that even status indians pay taxes for money earned off the reserve. If a status indian is working with you in a job off the reserve, they are paying taxes too. To me, this is one of the worst misconceptions about natives because a lot of people think they don't pay taxes (when they do) so they shouldn't have a say in government. It reinforces the stereotype of natives as freeloaders.
Sales taxes depend on the province as do many other benefits. GST is generally not charged if the goods are purchased by a status indian on the reserve or if the goods will be delievered to a reserve by the vendor or an agent of the vendor. Otherwise it is charged.
Re: RE: Is Everyone Happy With Our New Government??
The NDP rec'd 7% of the vote in Quebec....this is with a collapsing Liberal party. They rec'd 11% in Alberta.
The NDP is in a terrible position. The best they could do is increase their national vote by 1% with all the Liberal corruption and in-fighting. They didn't do anything to expand their base outside of a few toeholds.
A revived Liberal leader 'may' put the boots to the NDP in the next election. The NDP will find itself, once again, marginalized across most of Canada and concentrating its efforts in a a few voting markets... a recipe for disaster. In the meantime the dippers will pat Layton on the back and, as in the past, do nothing to attract large segments of society such as oilfield workers, farmers and so on. Next election the NDP will go head-to-head against a fresh Liberal leader and they might be reduced to 10 seats or so.
McDonald said:
The NDP rec'd 7% of the vote in Quebec....this is with a collapsing Liberal party. They rec'd 11% in Alberta.
The NDP is in a terrible position. The best they could do is increase their national vote by 1% with all the Liberal corruption and in-fighting. They didn't do anything to expand their base outside of a few toeholds.
A revived Liberal leader 'may' put the boots to the NDP in the next election. The NDP will find itself, once again, marginalized across most of Canada and concentrating its efforts in a a few voting markets... a recipe for disaster. In the meantime the dippers will pat Layton on the back and, as in the past, do nothing to attract large segments of society such as oilfield workers, farmers and so on. Next election the NDP will go head-to-head against a fresh Liberal leader and they might be reduced to 10 seats or so.
"A revived Liberal leader 'may' put the boots to the NDP in the next election. The NDP will find itself, once again, marginalized across most of Canada and concentrating its efforts in a a few voting markets... a recipe for disaster."
I think this is why they want to change the FPTP system. It serve them greatly.
I think this is why they want to change the FPTP system. It serve them greatly.
That's true. One poll came out that 55% of Canadians wanted a majority government. I'm not sure that type of support is good news for a change of the system that would ensure minority governments.
FPTP isn't a great system but the 'devil is in the details' for any other system. Any change could be like the Charlottetown Accord:...tell me 'exactly' what this means and how it applies in these 'what if' cases.
FPTP isn't a great system but the 'devil is in the details' for any other system. Any change could be like the Charlottetown Accord:...tell me 'exactly' what this means and how it applies in these 'what if' cases.
what "what ifs" are you thinking of calberty?
for good electoral change we also need structural change, not the proposed hybrid westminster systems.
for good electoral change we also need structural change, not the proposed hybrid westminster systems.
RE: Is Everyone Happy Wit
I am both happy and pensive. I am happy that the conservatives have a chance to prove themselves a worth government, dispite fear-mongering among hard core liberals. I also think that we need to teach the liberal party a lesson, that we will not stand for corruption, same goes for the conservatives but lets face the facts. Liberals have been in power far to long, they have been corrupted by power and developed this sense of entitlement. I do think it will take more then one term for the liberals to truely change, if they are reelected again within 2 years there is no reason for them to feel a need to change. I am pensive because I think thats entirely likely, we could be going back to the polls in 6 months and the conservatives won't have a chances to show their stuff, and the liberals will be back unchanged. I think the next few years will show if Canadian's are not only able but willing to have a government controlled by the people not people controled by a government. What scares me the most is that the RCMP does not launch an investigation when something happens, instead they wait for the liberal wave to start the investigation. That is frightening, as it shows governmental control over the police force.
I am both happy and pensive. I am happy that the conservatives have a chance to prove themselves a worth government, dispite fear-mongering among hard core liberals. I also think that we need to teach the liberal party a lesson, that we will not stand for corruption, same goes for the conservatives but lets face the facts. Liberals have been in power far to long, they have been corrupted by power and developed this sense of entitlement. I do think it will take more then one term for the liberals to truely change, if they are reelected again within 2 years there is no reason for them to feel a need to change. I am pensive because I think thats entirely likely, we could be going back to the polls in 6 months and the conservatives won't have a chances to show their stuff, and the liberals will be back unchanged. I think the next few years will show if Canadian's are not only able but willing to have a government controlled by the people not people controled by a government. What scares me the most is that the RCMP does not launch an investigation when something happens, instead they wait for the liberal wave to start the investigation. That is frightening, as it shows governmental control over the police force.
Re: RE: Is Everyone Happy With Our New Government??
Caracal, it's the other way round. The PR needs to be presented with ALL the nitty gritty details and not glossed over. Check out the proposals that were defeated in the referendums in BC and PEI. they went into excrutiating detail but still people had questions and voted the proposals down.
It's a bit like the referendum on the monarchy in Australia a couple years back. about 60% of the population wanted to abolish the monarchy but the referendum lost because the Aussies couldn't agree on the details of the replacement system. What PR system will be accepted in Canada by such diverse groups as the Inuit, Quebec sovereigntists, PEI potato growers and Alberta rednecks...all of them are vigilant not to negotiate such a vital change without looking after their own power interests and getting other changes in the Constitution.
Won't happen.
the caracal kid said:
Caracal, it's the other way round. The PR needs to be presented with ALL the nitty gritty details and not glossed over. Check out the proposals that were defeated in the referendums in BC and PEI. they went into excrutiating detail but still people had questions and voted the proposals down.
It's a bit like the referendum on the monarchy in Australia a couple years back. about 60% of the population wanted to abolish the monarchy but the referendum lost because the Aussies couldn't agree on the details of the replacement system. What PR system will be accepted in Canada by such diverse groups as the Inuit, Quebec sovereigntists, PEI potato growers and Alberta rednecks...all of them are vigilant not to negotiate such a vital change without looking after their own power interests and getting other changes in the Constitution.
Won't happen.
Re: RE: Is Everyone Happy Wit
colin. I agree that it's not the Liberals so much as a government in power too long. Aa 'rot' also set in in the last couple years of Mulroney's reign
We have a similar situation in Alberta with King Ralph. I like old Ralph but he's past his due date and we need a big change. I always admire a politician or actor or sports figure, etc who 'walks away' proudly at the height of their career and isn't being pushed out the door.
Colin said:
colin. I agree that it's not the Liberals so much as a government in power too long. Aa 'rot' also set in in the last couple years of Mulroney's reign
We have a similar situation in Alberta with King Ralph. I like old Ralph but he's past his due date and we need a big change. I always admire a politician or actor or sports figure, etc who 'walks away' proudly at the height of their career and isn't being pushed out the door.
Neither happy nor sad...
Just looking forward with high interest to how things will unfold. Canadians shouldn't rejoice too much on the Bloc losing seats. You can interpret that as a decline of support for sovereignty but it is known that support for sovereignty goes up and down like a yoyo. You can't draw simple minded conclusions from these election results. The federalists have a whole lot to prove in Quebec after all the scandals and a good majority of Quebecers expect significant decentralization, which is why the Conservatives got support. There are sovereignists who actually voted Conservative by the way...
Harper has a HUGE challenge in front of him. The same goes for the seperatists. This is really a transitional period in Canadian politics and anything can happen.
Just looking forward with high interest to how things will unfold. Canadians shouldn't rejoice too much on the Bloc losing seats. You can interpret that as a decline of support for sovereignty but it is known that support for sovereignty goes up and down like a yoyo. You can't draw simple minded conclusions from these election results. The federalists have a whole lot to prove in Quebec after all the scandals and a good majority of Quebecers expect significant decentralization, which is why the Conservatives got support. There are sovereignists who actually voted Conservative by the way...
Harper has a HUGE challenge in front of him. The same goes for the seperatists. This is really a transitional period in Canadian politics and anything can happen.
Does anyone else see some parallels with Newt Gingrich and his deal with America people? I sort of see Harper in the same way. He's the "We're going to restore honour and dignity to politics" guy. Hope he does better then Gingrich and friends.
The federalists have a whole lot to prove in Quebec after all the scandals and a good majority of Quebecers expect significant decentralization, which is why the Conservatives got support. There are sovereignists who actually voted Conservative by the way...
---------------------------------s_lone-------------------
Isn't there the idea of decentralization and
federalism floating around about making your Senate
represent each province equally in the upper
chamber ?
---------------------------------s_lone-------------------
Isn't there the idea of decentralization and
federalism floating around about making your Senate
represent each province equally in the upper
chamber ?
Everyone is missing the point here. Harper has just saved this country from endless Liberal lies and corruption which was destroying our country. Alberta would not have stood by much longer being used as a whipping boy by the Liberals for their own gains. Buzz was just saying what Martin couldn't say himself. Harper has given hope to Quebec where endless years of the Liberals using Separation as their fear lever has got us no where. The maritimes will get their resource revenue and stand on their own feet instead of begging for constant handouts. Unfortunatly Ontario will cling to a past that will never return and drag this country down rather than drive this country. Remember Montreal was once Canada's Premiere City. Toronto can also lose that title. Thank you Stephen Harper for saving my country.