Iraq war botched and illegal

Avro

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Feb 12, 2007
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Linda McQuaig

Apart from a few enthusiasts of the "surge," most commentators now regard the Iraq war as a terrible mistake. With Democrats likely to take the White House next year, the focus seems to be shifting to the problem of extricating U.S. troops.
Can the war then be chalked up to a painful lesson learned?
On the contrary, after five years of war, it seems that no real lesson has been learned. Indeed, there's a refusal to even acknowledge why it was wrong to invade Iraq.
Sure, there's lots of criticism of the Bush administration for poor war planning, and for squandering U.S. lives and "treasure."
All this is true, but it skirts a more fundamental problem – one that was barely mentioned in all the fifth-year anniversary commentaries last week – that the invasion was a war of aggression carried out in defiance of international law.
This is not a mere technicality. According to the Nuremberg Tribunal, set up by the Allies after World War II: "War is essentially an evil thing ... To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime."
The whole international legal system established after 1945 was dedicated to outlawing aggression, with the United Nations Security Council created to act as arbiter.
The Bush administration's decision to invade Iraq without the approval of the Security Council was therefore illegal, as then UN secretary general Kofi Annan has noted.
None of this seems to concern Senator Hillary Clinton, who stands a good chance of being the "anti-war" candidate in the U.S. presidential election.
Of course, Clinton voted in 2002 to authorize an invasion of Iraq. Still, in her tight race with Barack Obama, she's tried to reposition herself as anti-war. She now argues for bringing (at least some) troops home – since, as she said last week, the U.S. has already done enough by giving Iraqis "their freedom."
This is a stunning line of reasoning. Leaving aside the absurdity of suggesting that what Iraqis are experiencing is "freedom," there is the troubling fact that she doesn't seem to be aware – or care – that invading Iraq was contrary to international law.
This indifference to the war's illegality is typical of mainstream political and academic commentators.
Michael Ignatieff, who was prominent among intellectuals supporting the war, failed to even mention the war's illegality in his widely noted mea culpa in the New York Times Magazine last summer. Ignatieff, now deputy leader of Canada's Liberal party, took himself to task in the Times article. "I let emotions carry me past the hard questions, like: Can Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites hold together in peace what Saddam Hussein held together by terror?"
A more basic "hard" question didn't seem to occur to Ignatieff: What right does the United States have to invade other countries?
It seems the lesson learned is to plan better before invading.


AS LONG AS commentators confine themselves to this sort of war critique, the imperial assumption behind the war – that the U.S. has the right to invade countries – will remain unchallenged, making more war likely.
Indeed, some of the war's key enablers – like Clinton and Ignatieff – may soon hold power. Clinton may well be in a position to give more people their "freedom."
We in the West are vigilant about aggression in our enemies. Yet, after five years of horror in Iraq, we remain doggedly blind to Western aggression.

http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/350328
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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The big problem is that the US society has been conditioned to believe they can not make mistakes and that it's never their fault, it's someone else's for making the decisions they themselves made. That dumb idiot who was interviewed over her pictures of Iraqi prisoner treatment is a good case in point, where she didn't really accept responsibility for her own actions, but blamed the media for leaking the images that she took, saying that they helped fuel the insecurity in Iraq (Not that Iraqi's were PO'd about how US soldiers were treating them in the first place)

Bush rigged his elections and nobody did anything about it. He blamed and went to war with Afghanistan over 9/11 when the person who apparently was behind it was hiding in Pakistan.... yet nobody did anything about it. Bush got the entire country riled up and ready for blood over 9/11 and for some reason got the entire country to believe that Iraq was also invovled, regardless of actual proof...... Yet nobody did anything about it.

Bush has created his own justice system in Cuba, he's created his own classification of the people in which the US capture for whatever reason, wherever they capture them from, and thereby places those people in a limbo game for years of their lives, where no human rights groups can help them, where normal classifications for human rights created within the UN do not exist.... he has created loop holes for his government to be able to torture those they capture to gain information...... Yet nobody is doing anything about it.

It has been found out that there were no WMD in Iraq, that Bush and his intelligence have been found lieing to us all, that he created an illegal war.... Yet nobody is doing anything about it.

Bush is now, yet again, trying to pull the exact same stunt with Iran as he did with Iraq. He has shown no evidence, no proof of his admins. assertions, yet has talked about WWIII, has accused Iran of things they can not prove, adding further fearmongering to the mix, like he already did with Iraq...... and yet, nobody is doing anything about it.

By all friggin logic that remains in the world, Bush should have been impeached, or held for war crimes years ago.....

but do you want to know why nobody has yet?

Because of all those people who backed Bush, who supported his claims, who acted apon his information and direction, who joined along with the invasions and destruction of their own constitution, who have infringed on so many people's rights and freedoms..... all do not want to express or admit they were responsible for any wrong doings..... that their own actions have helped pave the way for Bush to do everything that he has gotten away with so far.

To turn around and try and hang Bush will in turn hang their careers and fancy pay cheques which would automatically point them out as contradicting/hypocritical, that they make mistakes, they are not perfect, and therefore not qualified for the positions they are currently filling..... and nobody wants to be the first one to stand up against their president in which everybody has followed so blindly fo so long... at the same time admitting they were also wrong.... Accepting Responsibility.

People will then ask "Well why didn't you speak up before?" or "How come if you oppose all this now, that you voted these things in?" and so on, so forth.... They'll basically set themselves up for losing their jobs and nobody wants to do that..... and so nobody will do anything about it.
 
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Lester

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Yep - if Bush goes down, all his cronies go down with him. They are going to stick to the same story and justify their actions no matter what.
 

zoofer

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I sure do miss the good ole days when Saddam was gassing Kurds, starving the Southern marsh Arabs, mass murdering his countrymen and rewarding suicide bomber's families with $25,000 bounty money.
Yep those were the good old days where France and Germany had under the table oil deals with Hussein.
Any wonder why those corrupt countries wouldn't vote with the corrupt UN to make the "corrupt" war legal?
 

Lester

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Yeah but every country makes their own little back room deals to serve their own interests.a lot of these countries that are now adversaries of the U.S. were receipients of US aid at some point in the recent past. it's when they get too cocky that the U.S. imposes a regime change.
 

Scott Free

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I sure do miss the good ole days when Saddam was gassing Kurds, starving the Southern marsh Arabs, mass murdering his countrymen and rewarding suicide bomber's families with $25,000 bounty money.
Yep those were the good old days where France and Germany had under the table oil deals with Hussein.
Any wonder why those corrupt countries wouldn't vote with the corrupt UN to make the "corrupt" war legal?

Yeah, what's happening now is so much better :roll:
 

zoofer

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Yeah but every country makes their own little back room deals to serve their own interests.a lot of these countries that are now adversaries of the U.S. were receipients of US aid at some point in the recent past. it's when they get too cocky that the U.S. imposes a regime change.

When do you think Robert Mugabe will be "cocky" enough to warrant his removal?
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Nice to see CBSNBCMSNBCFOX decided to show up with their version.

Iran gassed the kurds, as retaliation for all the gassing Iraq did with US supplied chemicals. Is that the same ones who the US prompted to revolt and then did nothing to help them?
Should we now explore selling oil in Euros? The very first thing the US changed BTW.
Feel free to debunk all the lies, somewhere over a 100.
 

MHz

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Maybe he should go read a book or two to the kiddies in school, might even have it right-side up this time.
 

Scott Free

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I agree. Schools are open, violence is down, democracy has been introduced into a area that has never experienced it.
Kudos to Bush!
:canada:

Oh give it up. Some schools have been reopened, so many freedom fighters (a.k.a insurgence) have been murdered that violence is down, and a puppet government installed complete with the most outrageous constitution the world has ever seen.

I just finished reading a book called A Theory Of Everything by Ken Wilber. While I don't agree with much of it (maybe any of it) he did bring to my attention the notion of human development past adulthood. I used to think people like you were.... well this is a polite forum so I really can't say, but now I know your development into a mature sensible person has been retarded. Wilber would say you live in a world of red memes (terrible term). I would like to point out that there are at least 7 more levels beyond your current stage. I find his idea interesting in that it might offer a little hope for people hopelessly lost worshiping strength, force and authority; forever guided by their baser impulses.

My post seems a little insulting to be sure but it is by far the kindest way I could come up with for expressing my opinion of your post.
 

Avro

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I agree. Schools are open, violence is down, democracy has been introduced into a area that has never experienced it.
Kudos to Bush!
:canada:

Schools were open before, violence was down before and democracy does not exsist in corrupt Iraq now.

Bush is an asswipe.
 

Avro

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Feb 12, 2007
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I sure do miss the good ole days when Saddam was gassing Kurds, starving the Southern marsh Arabs, mass murdering his countrymen and rewarding suicide bomber's families with $25,000 bounty money.
Yep those were the good old days where France and Germany had under the table oil deals with Hussein.
Any wonder why those corrupt countries wouldn't vote with the corrupt UN to make the "corrupt" war legal?

Saddam had the country under control something the U.S. has failed to do....bunch of pussies.

Yep, those suicide bombers were blowing themselves up for 25 grand....:roll:

Do you like the good ole days when the U.S. was supplying weapons to Saddam and giving him the green light to invade Kuwait?

Now the U.S. has above table oil deals with Iraq and no bid contracts.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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Acts of violence are fewer in number today but Moqtada al-Sadr's ceasefire was the real cause. It appears, however, that his ceasefire will soon be over and violence will increase as it has in Basra.


IMPEACH BUSH!!
 

MHz

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According to the number of stories at WRH that ceasefire, with Iraqi forces and the US, is what is at stake, not some infighting, and it is already over.
 

earth_as_one

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Life under Hussein was repressed. Thanks to the economic sanctions (imposed on for almost a decade after they served their purpose), Iraqis were poor and starving. Iraqis were relatively safe if they didn't criticize Hussein's leadership.

Let's put it this way, pre-invasion Baghdad was far safer than it is today.

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_conflict_in_Iraq_since_2003

Survey Iraqi deaths March 2003 to...

...June 2006
Iraqi Health Ministry survey
151,000 violent deaths out of 400,000 excess deaths due to the war.

...June 2006
Lancet survey
601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths.

...August 2007
Opinion Research Business survey
1,033,000 violent deaths as a result of the conflict.

If Saddam Hussein had invaded Iraq based on lies/deceptions and caused all these deaths, I'm sure people would have no hestitation labelling that action a war crime.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Gopher

You've made your position clear regarding the sensibility of holding Bush et al. accountable, but why what would you suggest is the reason behind the apathy and williing ignorance of the bulk of Americans when this notion is expressed? Do Americans really believe that they will be believed by anyone and will ever regain any respect they had as a nation and a people unless they demonstrate their principles?....Or have they by tacitly endorsing the gangsterism of the Bush administration..?
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Acts of violence are fewer in number today but Moqtada al-Sadr's ceasefire was the real cause. It appears, however, that his ceasefire will soon be over and violence will increase as it has in Basra.


See that is only giving Sadr a chance to not only flex his political muscle, but also show who's really in control over there.

IMPEACH BUSH!!

Nobody will. Not until years from now do I ever see anybody in the US government doing that. They've sucked it all up now, they'd rather just duck and cover until retirement and then take off somewhere. And Bush will be hiding out with 2Pac, Elvis, and Jim Henson, while we all bitch and complain about why nobody impeached him before he was killed by a weather balloon..... or so they tell us.