Iraq war a success

[jimmoyer]

Aeon, the young in Europe marched in the streets defying American desires to stop Saddam.

Meanwhile Chirac and Corporate Europe giggled
hiding behind the Euro youth naivete as they sought
to strengthen their business with Saddam Hussein,
dreaming of their own personal Saudi Arabia.

It took an American with hat in had to get the big
business of France Germany and Russia to forgive
SOME of Saddam's debt so that the New Iraq can have
a chance.

And now you have educated intelligent westerners
enjoy any trouble suicide bombers and insurgents
can impose on American hubris little caring that Iraq
can rebuild in that atmosphere.

The circus won't end.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Iraq war a success

Aeon, the young in Europe marched in the streets defying American desires to stop Saddam.

Meanwhile Chirac and Corporate Europe giggled
hiding behind the Euro youth naivete as they sought
to strengthen their business with Saddam Hussein,
dreaming of their own personal Saudi Arabia.

It took an American with hat in had to get the big
business of France Germany and Russia to forgive
SOME of Saddam's debt so that the New Iraq can have
a chance.

And now you have educated intelligent westerners
enjoy any trouble suicide bombers and insurgents
can impose on American hubris little caring that Iraq
can rebuild in that atmosphere.

The circus won't end.

Wait a minute jim, everyone that marched in europe werent for saddam , they were against the war, quite different, being against the war, doesnt mean, they want saddam to win the war.damn it

About what chirac wanted iraqies oil, that is exactly what your country has done and even worst, france wanted to deal with saddam directly by avoiding the war, you guys went in iraq destroyed everything they have,because saddam wasnt listening to you guys anymore, when he gassed the kurd, nobody in the us said anything on it, even furthur no media in the us has talked about it, so you guys can t play the moral card on the french, you guys did a millions times worst.


By the way, i support hamas, i support insurgent in iraq,in other word i support the resistance, now what is the problem with that?? i

 

[aeon]

And zoofer , i am still waiting about your biased articles....

 

[#juan]

Iraq war a success ??

This topic was posted to get a reaction. Here is mine. With 70,000 to 100,000(depending who you believe) Iraqi civilians dead, over 2,300 American soldiers dead, close to twenty thousand American soldiers wounded,(many very badly wounded), Iraq infrastructure still a shambles, any talk about success is a cruel joke. Different warring factions are killing at least fifty Iraqis a week but Bush says it isn't civil war. The term "success" generally means that the results of some endeavor are what was hoped for. Does anyone think the current situation in Iraq in any way indicates success?

 

[Jay]

Lots of purple fingers and a new government. There are successes in this and more to come.

 

[darkbeaver]

Iraq war a success ??

This topic was posted to get a reaction. Here is mine. With 70,000 to 100,000(depending who you believe) Iraqi civilians dead, over 2,300 American soldiers dead, close to twenty thousand American soldiers wounded,(many very badly wounded), Iraq infrastructure still a shambles, any talk about success is a cruel joke. Different warring factions are killing at least fifty Iraqis a week but Bush says it isn't civil war. The term "success" generally means that the results of some endeavor are what was hoped for. Does anyone think the current situation in Iraq in any way indicates success?

I think that there could be elements involved that have been very successful, Haliburton for one, the bloodshed and destruction coupled with the disorganization and factional divisions make governance of Iraq from behind the walls of the American military bases relatively easy, it is far cheaper to ferment civil war and then retire behind the walls while the factions destroy each other, the Americans cannot leave those factions intact to form a functioning government that would interfere in the production of oil, there will be no government by the Iraqi people, it's not in the cards.

 

[mabudon]

ahh yes, purple fingers, I can't believe someone got out that old saw again.. do folks still believe that saying "purple fingers" makes the HORRIBLE MESS over there somehow look "right"??

The country is a mess, the people are dying (suggesting that hundreds of civilian deaths every month is "encouraging" is downright stupid and insulting to decency everywhere)

if the "mission" is a success, I would HATE to see what failure would have to look like.. a smoking sheet of black glass???

That's something that needs to be brought to this conversation- what exactly WOULD failure look like (and PLEASE don't say "saddam trading oil in euros and smashing the artificial US economy")

Like, if the mission was done exactly the way it has been, what at this point in time would failure look like??

Hopefully someone can answer this, so as to better explain to some of us why the current situation has ANY reason being described as a "success"

 

[aeon]

succes for the war in iraq= halliburton=Exxon-chevron-Bp-shell.


They all make incredible amount of profit on the war in iraq.


Strangely, cheeney has worked for halliburton, and condi rice for exxon and chevron, i guess it is only a coincidence, the other 2, are from UK.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Iraq war a success

ahh yes, purple fingers, I can't believe someone got out that old saw again.. do folks still believe that saying "purple fingers" makes the HORRIBLE MESS over there somehow look "right"??

The country is a mess, the people are dying (suggesting that hundreds of civilian deaths every month is "encouraging" is downright stupid and insulting to decency everywhere)

if the "mission" is a success, I would HATE to see what failure would have to look like.. a smoking sheet of black glass???

That's something that needs to be brought to this conversation- what exactly WOULD failure look like (and PLEASE don't say "saddam trading oil in euros and smashing the artificial US economy")

Like, if the mission was done exactly the way it has been, what at this point in time would failure look like??

Hopefully someone can answer this, so as to better explain to some of us why the current situation has ANY reason being described as a "success"

It's not an old saw...but what it is, is a stain on the lefts ability to understand the situation.

 

[JoeyB]

I think war and success aren't terms that can coexist peacefully for very long. I'm also waiting for someone to start a thread on oil company conspiracies, so we have another debate on our hands for the charlie sheen fans out there

 

[mabudon]

so WHAT would failure look like, or would I, being "one of them" just not be able to discern spectacular failure from sddmashig success?? answer the question without telling me that I don't understand stuff, please

 

[darkbeaver]

Then explain the situation to us as you and Ann see it Jay.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Iraq war a success

so WHAT would failure look like, or would I, being "one of them" just not be able to discern spectacular failure from sddmashig success?? answer the question without telling me that I don't understand stuff, please

A failure would be the USA walking away from this and
"insurgents" scaring the people into putting up with another Saddam.

We want a free Iraq, something where people are allowed to vote, have rights....IE the opposite of what was happening in Iraq. We want a domino effect for the entire region.
It would appear as the left calls for evacuating Iraq they would rather have a civil war with some Saddamite placed in power.

If you think "purple fingers" is an "old saw" then you will have to forgive me if I think you don't understand the issue.

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Iraq war a success

ahh yes, purple fingers, I can't believe someone got out that old saw again.. do folks still believe that saying "purple fingers" makes the HORRIBLE MESS over there somehow look "right"??

The country is a mess, the people are dying (suggesting that hundreds of civilian deaths every month is "encouraging" is downright stupid and insulting to decency everywhere)

if the "mission" is a success, I would HATE to see what failure would have to look like.. a smoking sheet of black glass???
"

What did Germany and Occupied France look like after WWII, I wonder? It wasn't all green pastures and chocolate shoppes; it was smoking rubble and shell-blasted field, broken glass and a struggling populace. And fast-forward to today.. they are some of the most civilized and progressive nations of the world. Civilized enough, in fact, to protest against the same type of war that helped save their countries...

Give it a while. Preferably more than a handful of years.

 

[Jay]

Dresden

 

[mabudon]

WOW guys, the point of tha pic of post-allied-firebombing Dresden being??? is THAT what failure in Iraq would look like, cos if so that's kinda what a lot of it looks like

BTW I have hundreds of reconnaisance pics from WW2, REAL ones, not google searched I can't see how this has ANYTHING to do with Iraq... The mission in WW2 was for one side to totally SMASH another, "regime change" in Iraq and going tooth and nail with another counrty (or group of same) in a winner-take-all war is different

SO WHAT would failure look like again?? without using talking points (see "failure would be if we got out of the place we have no place being" that makes NO logical sense and doesn't say what failure would look like at all, just a spin on a very real option IMO... when is an option not an option anyways, and why can there be only one resolution to such a complex problem??)

 

[Jay]

It isn't an option unless you want the bloodshed to increase and another dictator in charge of Iraq. That would be a failure.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Iraq war a success

succes for the war in iraq= halliburton=Exxon-chevron-Bp-shell.


They all make incredible amount of profit on the war in iraq.


Strangely, cheeney has worked for halliburton, and condi rice for exxon and chevron, i guess it is only a coincidence, the other 2, are from UK.

BP British Petroleum is called Blair Petroleum. This is a resourse war pure and simple, it is infantile to insist that freedom and democracy are the motivators, Iraqi's will elect puppet governments or they'll continue to die untill they get it right.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Iraq war a success

It isn't an option unless you want the bloodshed to increase and another dictator in charge of Iraq. That would be a failure.

They have a new dictator now, it's called the Anglo American Corporatocracy.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Iraq war a success

It isn't an option unless you want the bloodshed to increase and another dictator in charge of Iraq. That would be a failure.

They have a new dictator now, it's called the Anglo American Corporatocracy.

exactly.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm

Najem Aboud Debib, 37, like many Shiites, says he feels deep disappointment now. The Shiites opposed Saddam, whose regime was dominated by Sunnis. A year ago, they welcomed the Americans and the freedom to exercise their brand of Islam without repression. Now, Aboud Debib says, "I'm sure they have no morals. ...They are something like Saddam Hussein. We are suffering under the same situation."