For those that started the war it is surely not senseless, they must have had a goal, a purpose to attack.
Sorry, I can't ask the Kurds... they are too far away!:-( Perhaps you could share your opinion with us?
Iraq: The ugliness of a senseless war!
- Thread starter dancing-loon
- Start date
Sorry, I can't ask the Kurds... they are too far away!:-( Perhaps you could share your opinion with us?
I think the important question is...why did the US choose the oil flodding Iraq instead of the genocide striken Rwanda? I see that the media has done a great job in indoctrinating the self-righteousness of the invation on Iraq. They do 'forget' to mention that it was the US who enabled Sadam to experiment on the Kurds, or the ones that have had their fingers in the politics of every single latin american country which has caused thousands of deaths. Oh yes I forgot, the rest of the world is too idiotic to choose their own goverments so we need the US to civilize them.
Funny that you quote Orwell. I am sure he would completly disagree with such an unjust war. Even if it was done for the right reasons, elections should be held and the US should be out of there once people choose their own government. But that has never happened....oh yes of course.... they are too idiotic to think for themselves.
Funny that you quote Orwell. I am sure he would completly disagree with such an unjust war. Even if it was done for the right reasons, elections should be held and the US should be out of there once people choose their own government. But that has never happened....oh yes of course.... they are too idiotic to think for themselves.
The ugliness of Bush's war will be more evident to Americans when payment for the $ 3 trillion dollar cost is demanded.
Hi, Gopher;
are you suggesting the Americans borrowed the money? From whom? China?
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm
Some citizens take matters into their own hands and withhold taxes: 2008 War Tax Boycott Redirects over $325,000 from War to Peace! http://www.wartaxboycott.org/
Sunday, April 16, 2006
An estimated 10,000 conscientious objectors chose to withhold some or all of their U.S. income taxes due Monday, April 17, in protest to the use of US military power in Iraq. Some plan to instead donate their required tax to charity.
It isn't much, but it shows what a great tool citizens have in their hands... they could stop the war, if they wanted to!
are you suggesting the Americans borrowed the money? From whom? China?
Here is a pie chart that shows where the money goes.
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm
Some citizens take matters into their own hands and withhold taxes: 2008 War Tax Boycott Redirects over $325,000 from War to Peace! http://www.wartaxboycott.org/
Sunday, April 16, 2006
An estimated 10,000 conscientious objectors chose to withhold some or all of their U.S. income taxes due Monday, April 17, in protest to the use of US military power in Iraq. Some plan to instead donate their required tax to charity.
It isn't much, but it shows what a great tool citizens have in their hands... they could stop the war, if they wanted to!
Dare we hope the end is in sight?
Obama: US can't stay in Iraq forever
In Amman, Jordan, Tuesday, July 22nd 08, Barack Obama stated the U.S. government and military can't be in Iraq forever. He plans troop withdrawal within the first 16 months should he be elected.
"My goal is to no longer have U.S. troops engaged in combat operations in Iraq," he said.
Read more here: http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/13185
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I surprise myself how much I assume Obama will be president next year! As we know, McCain has a different, if not opposite, vision for Iraq... an open end.
Obama: US can't stay in Iraq forever
In Amman, Jordan, Tuesday, July 22nd 08, Barack Obama stated the U.S. government and military can't be in Iraq forever. He plans troop withdrawal within the first 16 months should he be elected.
"My goal is to no longer have U.S. troops engaged in combat operations in Iraq," he said.
Read more here: http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/13185
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I surprise myself how much I assume Obama will be president next year! As we know, McCain has a different, if not opposite, vision for Iraq... an open end.
Once the US leaves Iraq, rightly or wrongly, the lid will be off the pot and it will boil over.
Then the real bloodshed will occur (but lets face it, no matter how long the US stays , as soon as it eventually goes this will come to a head).
At that point Kurdistan will probably seperate, then Iran and Turkey will carpet bomb it with the fighting spreading into both of those countries as well.
Sunni's and Shias will slaughter everyone in the streets but as they are already bombed out hellholes, will probably not actually receive alot of support as Syria and Iran would (maybe im wrong) probably not want to jeopardise their alliance by backing opposing sides.
In the end Kurdistan will be a wreck like the rest of Iraq and the fighting will continue for decades after, much like lebanon, and never truly settle down.
Add to that Turkey probably won't join the EU after its military is involved in Kurdistan.
Whether or not the US should have gone in Iraq. Its there now, and regardless of if it stays or goes, you can't put the genie back into the lamp. America doesn't rule the world as much as it might like to sing "America ...F**K YEAH!" every now and then. People in Iraq have their own long standing issues they are going to settle regardless of what America does.
Then the real bloodshed will occur (but lets face it, no matter how long the US stays , as soon as it eventually goes this will come to a head).
At that point Kurdistan will probably seperate, then Iran and Turkey will carpet bomb it with the fighting spreading into both of those countries as well.
Sunni's and Shias will slaughter everyone in the streets but as they are already bombed out hellholes, will probably not actually receive alot of support as Syria and Iran would (maybe im wrong) probably not want to jeopardise their alliance by backing opposing sides.
In the end Kurdistan will be a wreck like the rest of Iraq and the fighting will continue for decades after, much like lebanon, and never truly settle down.
Add to that Turkey probably won't join the EU after its military is involved in Kurdistan.
Whether or not the US should have gone in Iraq. Its there now, and regardless of if it stays or goes, you can't put the genie back into the lamp. America doesn't rule the world as much as it might like to sing "America ...F**K YEAH!" every now and then. People in Iraq have their own long standing issues they are going to settle regardless of what America does.
Your analysis is idiotic and its source is traceable. You're a simple repeater of neo-con propaganda. With respect to the example of Lebanon you purposfully forget the root cause of thier long wars that being American and Israeli interferrence which never ceases. There was no sectarian violence in Iraq before the invasion and there will be none after the American defeat. They are an integrated mature society and have been for a long time.
In the link I provided in my above post there is a short paragraph worth noticing:
On the other hand things could change for the worse and your pessimistic expectations could all come true!
Here is another suggestion: U.S. advisers could stay after troops leave Iraq
Can Iraqi troops fight — and win — on their own?
That question has become even more urgent after President Bush, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki all spoke in recent days about setting either vague or specific time frames for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.
Recent evidence suggests that although the Iraqi military has made enormous progress, it is still dependent on small teams of American advisers who can rein in overly aggressive Iraqi commanders, call in U.S. airstrikes and help coordinate basic supplies such as food, rifle-cleaning kits and even printer cartridges.
The advisers could remain on the ground in Iraq long after most U.S. combat troops have left. Col. John Nagl, who resigned last month as commander of the U.S. Army's school for military advisers, says they are "the key to our exit strategy in Iraq."
Read all here:http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-07-20-iraqadvisers_N.htm?csp=34
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You see, Zzarchov, where there is a will there is a way!:smile:
The question is, Is there a will?
Lets be frank, here. Iraq doesn't want to be one unhappy family.
Kurds do not want, and have never wanted to be part of Iraq when britain carved it into the sand (arbitrarily). The Sunni Arabs only wanted Iraq because it was a big empire to them, where there 20% got to rule 100% of the country (and take a disproproportiate amount of wealth), now that they aren't in charge..they don't want to be in the same country as the Shia anymore.
The Shia (now) want an Iraq because they have a shot at controlling the rest of it and all the oil wealth at the expense of the other groups who live there.
I know this may be hard to believe, but Iraq is the frontline between Arab, Kurd and Persian land claims, its one of those fake countries carved into the map by European goals at the end of WWI.
@ Darkbeaver:
Yes, Israeli and Syrian intervention have turned lebanon into a hellhole as they fight their proxy wars.
You think Iran and Turkey won't fight their own proxy wars? A militantly Islamic and a militantly Secular nation with a their own interests to secure?
I know its a stretch, but people other than America and Israel are able to have their own goals independant of those two nations, and will commit their own meddlesome acts in their neighbours affairs to pursue those goals.
Not everything in the world is the fault of, or even remotely related to, America and Israel.
Which is the point, Iraq has its own problems whether or not America is there and will continue to have its own problems whether or not America stays there.
Lets be frank, here. Iraq doesn't want to be one unhappy family.
Kurds do not want, and have never wanted to be part of Iraq when britain carved it into the sand (arbitrarily). The Sunni Arabs only wanted Iraq because it was a big empire to them, where there 20% got to rule 100% of the country (and take a disproproportiate amount of wealth), now that they aren't in charge..they don't want to be in the same country as the Shia anymore.
The Shia (now) want an Iraq because they have a shot at controlling the rest of it and all the oil wealth at the expense of the other groups who live there.
I know this may be hard to believe, but Iraq is the frontline between Arab, Kurd and Persian land claims, its one of those fake countries carved into the map by European goals at the end of WWI.
@ Darkbeaver:
Yes, Israeli and Syrian intervention have turned lebanon into a hellhole as they fight their proxy wars.
You think Iran and Turkey won't fight their own proxy wars? A militantly Islamic and a militantly Secular nation with a their own interests to secure?
I know its a stretch, but people other than America and Israel are able to have their own goals independant of those two nations, and will commit their own meddlesome acts in their neighbours affairs to pursue those goals.
Not everything in the world is the fault of, or even remotely related to, America and Israel.
Which is the point, Iraq has its own problems whether or not America is there and will continue to have its own problems whether or not America stays there.
"Then the real bloodshed will occur"
that's what the pro war liars said about Vietnam but it did not happen
that's what the pro war liars said about Vietnam but it did not happen
"more than enough Hmong are STILL being hunted by the Government. "
Most of the atrocities took place in Laos and Cambodia.Quite different from Vietnam.
On another thread several people are saying Canada should not give refuge to Americans fleeing Bush's war. If their illogic is to be thought to be correct, why should Hmong be given any refuge by the USA or Canada? After all, they betrayed their country and deserve punishment for violating their law.
Vietnam is now capitalist. Let those refugees utilize the courts for redress of grievances. Just like USA refugees from Bush's war.
Most of the atrocities took place in Laos and Cambodia.Quite different from Vietnam.
On another thread several people are saying Canada should not give refuge to Americans fleeing Bush's war. If their illogic is to be thought to be correct, why should Hmong be given any refuge by the USA or Canada? After all, they betrayed their country and deserve punishment for violating their law.
Vietnam is now capitalist. Let those refugees utilize the courts for redress of grievances. Just like USA refugees from Bush's war.