Iraq, some real truths.

[EagleSmack]

Colpy wrote:

No, that's all wrong. Nato wasn't involved in the Kosovo conflict of 99 until the US led Nato war against the Serbs began in March 99 for the alleged ethnic cleansing of ethnic Albanians. The US made claims of huge mass graves but the graves never did materialize except in small numbers and they contained the remains of ethnic Albanians, Romas, and Serbs too. Claims of mass graves being found never did pan out to be anything other than what would be expected in a time of war. Nothing near the scale of the biggest mass graves ever created on the face of the earth when the US plowed the remains of Iraqis, including dieing Iraqis, under the sands of the desert in the thousands.

You should try to not confuse your wars of the Balkans.

Do you have ANY idea of how far off base you are with this. Do you have any clue? NATO was up to their azz in Serbia/Yugoslavia before the US got involved. The US (for once) was only involved in support role and NATO was getting tooled and spent the bulk of their time surrendering their weapons and being chained up to hard targets by the Serbs.

The US made claims? No mass graves? I am really astounded how little you know about this. You may spell great but you are not very educated except for the propaganda you are fed and swallow whole. Even the lefties in here know about what happened in Yugolslavia. You are the first person I have EVER heard saying it was another act of US Aggression. It wasn't even US led... the NATO Commander was a German.

You are just another anti-US guy with very little else to offer.

...and you just got schooled.

 

[Machjo]

Do you have ANY idea of how far off base you are with this. Do you have any clue? NATIO was up to their azz in Serbia/Yugoslavia before the US got involved. The US (for once) was only involved in support role and NATO was getting tooled and spent the bulk of their time surrendering their weapons and being chained up to hard targets by the Serbs.

The US made claims? No mass graves? I am really astounded how little you know about this. You may spell great but you are not very educated except for the propaganda you are fed and swallow whole. Even the lefties in here know about what happened in Yugolslavia. You are the first person I have EVER heard saying it was another act of US Aggression. It wasn't even US led... the NATO Commander was a German.

You are just another anti-US guy with very little else to offer.

...and you just got schooled.

Not much to disagree with here.

 

[EagleSmack]

So why dramatic increase in cancers and birth defects?

.

The IAEC has done studies and cannot find the correlation. DU is radioactive and that is a sore spot to many. However DU is used in many civillian applications...where is the outcry? They use DU for trim in aircraft. Shouldn't everyone who flies or is a passenger in a plane be in danger?

 

[Machjo]

The IAEC has done studies and cannot find the correlation. DU is radioactive and that is a sore spot to many. However DU is used in many civillian applications...where is the outcry? They use DU for trim in aircraft. Shouldn't everyone who flies or is a passenger in a plane be in danger?

If so, then more studies ought to be done to ascertain its safety, and just to be safe, find out what's causing all the health problems in Iraq. If it turns out to be something other than DU, then at least we'll know what it is. As long as we don't know what it is, then all we know is that there is something in the US arsenal that is killing many Iraqis today. We owe it to them to find out what it is. And if it is DU, then we need to re-examine our use of it here too.

 

[CDNBear]

Perhaps there wasn't a strong statistical accounting of said health issues before the US invaded.

 

[Machjo]

Perhaps there wasn't a strong statistical accounting of said health issues before the US invaded.

I don't know about that, but the physicians on the ground in Fallujah at least say it's shot way up, to the point that local officials are now advising women not to have children!

Clearly something's going on at least in Fallujah. From what I've seen, though DU is the commonly referenced suspect, it would seem there is not hard evidence that it is DU. However, just to put this to rest, the culprit ought to be sought after. Until then, we can only speculate as to what has made Fallujah so toxic to the local population.

 

[EagleSmack]

I don't know about that, but the physicians on the ground in Fallujah at least say it's shot way up, to the point that local officials are now advising women not to have children!

Clearly something's going on at least in Fallujah. From what I've seen, though DU is the commonly referenced suspect, it would seem there is not hard evidence that it is DU. However, just to put this to rest, the culprit ought to be sought after. Until then, we can only speculate as to what has made Fallujah so toxic to the local population.

The thing about Fallujah was there were no insurgent armor. DU rounds are typically used against armor. HE rounds are used against buildings. I am not saying that DU was not used there at all but the application of DU against a building is less destructive than a conventional HE round. The thing that makes DU effective is that it is a heavy shaped round that slices through thick armor. There is minimal explosive impact. The explosive impact comes from the secondary explosions of ammo cooking off within a tank. Tiny bits of molten metal are sprayed within the tank killing the tank crew and cooking off the ammo. That is where you see the turrets popped off and the tank hulk blackened.

I am not saying DU was not used in Fallujah, I am sure it was. I think warfare in and of itself is toxic. Warfare is never healthy. Tons of fuel used, ammunitions of all kinds expended and unexploded, gunpowder, weapon residue, acids, High Explosives, C4, decomposing bodies, decomposing organic matter (foods in unrefrigerated environs etc). The environment after a battle from Thermoplyae (480 B.C) to Fallujah can never be healthy.

 

[petros]

Perhaps there wasn't a strong statistical accounting of said health issues before the US invaded.

Which invasion? Prior to the Gulf War Iraq had a health care system that rivaled or bettered our own.

It should be pretty clear going by the health of those 18 and under compared to the previous generation.

WHO should have stats.

 

[EagleSmack]

Which invasion? Prior to the Gulf War Iraq had a health care system that rivaled or bettered our own.

It should be pretty clear going by the health of those 18 and under compared to the previous generation.

WHO should have stats.

I'd say you folks had a better health care system than Iraq. I think Iraq had all the potential of having that with their oil reserves but Saddam chose a different path.

 

[MHz]

The IAEC has done studies and cannot find the correlation. DU is radioactive and that is a sore spot to many. However DU is used in many civillian applications...where is the outcry? They use DU for trim in aircraft. Shouldn't everyone who flies or is a passenger in a plane be in danger?

How many forms has it blowing around so it enters the body, as least stick to the script that is being used to say how it affects the body, no reports are saying that in solid form it is anywhere near as dangerous once it is turned to dust.

Sprinkle some in front of your nose for a few weeks straight and then have you body examined on death for genetic abnormalities. DU is the perfect genicide weapon because all you have to do is blast off some rounds and then make sure you keep the targeted group in the area so successive generations are mutations. Within 100 years it will be barren from any Native people.

 

[EagleSmack]

How many forms has it blowing around so it enters the body, as least stick to the script that is being used to say how it affects the body, no reports are saying that in solid form it is anywhere near as dangerous once it is turned to dust.

Sprinkle some in front of your nose for a few weeks straight and then have you body examined on death for genetic abnormalities. DU is the perfect genicide weapon because all you have to do is blast off some rounds and then make sure you keep the targeted group in the area so successive generations are mutations. Within 100 years it will be barren from any Native people.

Genocide weapon. C'mon.

What about asbestos? Is that a genocide weapon? In solid form and undisturbed it is fine but sprinkle some of that under your nose. All you need to do is keep selling it to targeted nations true?

A modern battlefield is inherently dangerous for a lot of reasons. The only reason why DU is focused upon is because it is radioactive and so completely effective for it's purpose.

 

[petros]

I'd say you folks had a better health care system than Iraq. I think Iraq had all the potential of having that with their oil reserves but Saddam chose a different path.

Saddam may have been a savage but for some reason he spent plenty on hospitals, schools, churches, mosques and infrastructure.

 

[MHz]

The only reason why DU is focused upon is because it is radioactive and so completely effective for it's purpose.

I can take your word for it or I can take Doug Rooke's version,, I'll take his version, which puts the US Gov as being fully aware of the dangers to it's own troops (bye, bye benefits and any long term care for deformed children)

Use of "Depleted" Uranium Munitions

Get used to seeing pics like that if/when the Gulf spill starts doing more than putting a few spots on the plant-life in the area. What would that cover 20 -30 million?

 

[EagleSmack]

Saddam may have been a savage but for some reason he spent plenty on hospitals, schools, churches, mosques and infrastructure.

He focused his resources on himself and the Sunni areas though.

I can take your word for it or I can take Doug Rooke's version,, I'll take his version, which puts the US Gov as being fully aware of the dangers to it's own troops (bye, bye benefits and any long term care for deformed children)

Use of "Depleted" Uranium Munitions

Get used to seeing pics like that if/when the Gulf spill starts doing more than putting a few spots on the plant-life in the area. What would that cover 20 -30 million?

I know that you will choose the version that best suits what you want.

I suppose I could post all kinds of links on how harmful asbestos is but that does not seem to bother you as much now does it? Because it does not involve the US and doesn't have that impact you are looking for.

USA Bad- DU
Canada Good!- asbestos

 

[Avro]

He focused his resources on himself and the Sunni areas though.



I know that you will choose the version that best suits what you want.

I suppose I could post all kinds of links on how harmful asbestos is but that does not seem to bother you as much now does it? Because it does not involve the US and doesn't have that impact you are looking for.

USA Bad- DU
Canada Good!- asbestos

As useful as Asbestos can be and given it's a huge part of the Queec economy I say ban them both.

 

[CDNBear]

I know that you will choose the version that best suits what you want.

I suppose I could post all kinds of links on how harmful asbestos is but that does not seem to bother you as much now does it? Because it does not involve the US and doesn't have that impact you are looking for.

USA Bad- DU
Canada Good!- asbestos

Has anyone touched on the toxic and carcinogenic effects of burning crude? I mean Saddam and his minions sure did a number on those oil well heads. All that smoke had to be somewhat harmful to those that inhaled it briefly, let alone lived in the areas where it landed on things such as crops, housing, clothes and so on.

But like you said, US bad.

 

[MHz]

I know that you will choose the version that best suits what you want.

Actually I took the view of the person I believed more, I just explained that to you.
Where are the tests for asbestos safety that were done before it went into wide-spread use? Since it was deemed to be safe perhaps the ones in charge of public safety fell flat on their ass.

Did everyone get a promotion from that fuk-up?

 

[CDNBear]

Babbling on makes no difference. Asbestos is a known carcinogen. It is mined and sold over seas, by Canadian Companies, while it is illegal to use on Canadian soil. Full stop.

US bad, Canada good.

So long as it suits an ideology, its observed. If it doesn't, it's no problem.

 

[EagleSmack]

Actually I took the view of the person I believed more, I just explained that to you.
Where are the tests for asbestos safety that were done before it went into wide-spread use? Since it was deemed to be safe perhaps the ones in charge of public safety fell flat on their ass.

Did everyone get a promotion from that fuk-up?

I know you took the view on what you believed. The view you took is not surprising at all though.

Wait a second are you saying that because asbestos was not deemed a carcinogen prior to it's discovery and manufacturing then it is not a problem? Even knowing what everyone in the world knows about asbestos now?

 

[CDNBear]

I know you took the view on what you believed. The view you took is not surprising at all though.

Wait a second are you saying that because asbestos was not deemed a carcinogen prior to it's discovery and manufacturing then it is not a problem? Even knowing what everyone in the world knows about asbestos now?

That's how I took the post, hence why I stated "babbling".