Iran children - taught to HATE

CDNBear

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Any community under stress and outside pressure will teach its children to identify the enemy, deification of the enemy is not restricted to people of the middle east. It would be impossible to state that the western democracys do not play the same game. The practice is more sophisticated in our communitys though but no less instructive to the young.
Very true...
That is old, but it is a continued action of systematic desensitisation.
As an example of the impaired thinking that results from the practice we can redily see the unreasonable conclusions expounded here in this thread. In our western democracys many of us are of the opinion that Islamist fanatics represent a major problem to the planet, they demonstratable do not.
Although the extremism was created by the Imperialistic actions of western Nations, the fanatics bear some responsiblities. If you read more carefully, you may find that there is more reason then you give credit for. No one, far as I can tell, have made claims against entire groups, just the groups within nations that feed the plight. Much like your continued points about the US and Israel, there is a shoe for the other foot you know. One evil surely doesn't exonerate the other.
While christian fundementalists are viewed as benign agents of the fluffy lord Jesus, these same christians are armed to the teeth with the most sophisticated and extensive military machine ever assembled that has for decades expended millions of tons of weaponry and impoverished large regions of the planet.
I hardly find them or their vitiol harmless or benign. More like a driving force of decention and strife between cultures, for reasons of power grabs and profits.
The small elite rich western interests have demonized the Muslim world to the point that the fear mongering has exceeded all reason and impedes the commonwealth of the planet.
I would agree, but generalizing anyone a neo con, bigot, reicht winger and so on, that sees the actions of the extremists and does not lump all Muslims into one category, is far more balanced then those that keep preaching that use such labels and make ridiculous statements as "it is aginst their religion" therefore somehow absolving the extremists of any wrong doing. These people not only fail to grasp reality, but do everyone on both sides a disservice. They give credence to the extremists and they undermine the truly honourable Muslim people, by failing to expose the seperation of and indeed existance of an extreme eliment that surely does exist.
Those of us who advocate for the destruction of the percieved Muslim threat have taken the side of the aggressor, the thief, the murderer, the decadent rich, we stand with the powerful sick few who would rule the whole with the same ruthless disregard for humanity as they have for the poor people in any big city in Canada or the States.It's the same as cheering on a two-hundred pound prick beating his wife and kids in the street.
Although I find your anology humourous, it couldn't be any further from the truth, if you launched it in to Israel. Albeit, there is the corporate agenda on global domenation, there is an element of fanatics, that for all intents and purposess was created by the extremes of the global monster. But by heeping the entire mess on the west, you remove accountablity in one group, while demonizing another. How exactly is that constructive or reasonable?
The people of the Middle East have been subjected to brutality by imperialism for getting on to a hundred and seventyfive years now, it has been thier great misfortune to live on that oil, it has always been a curse to them.
Couldn't agree more.
Someone taught you to hate the Muslims and you teach others the same, put your stones down man your living in a glass house.
I dissagre, many watched the WTC events and were able to formulate alot of opinions on their own. Many watch the news and see the leaders of the fundamentalist movement preach their destruction, many, like myself, surf the net and absorb data from many sources. But in the end, if one is put off by the loud extremists, it is not that the people of the west were taught to hate because they chose to go forth and be a bigot. They have seen and heard the threats made against them by those that preach loudest from the Muslim community, oft over shadowing or over shouting the true followers of Islam. I feel no one truly hates Islam, I for one do not, I fear those that would spread their religion by sword. If you threaten me with violence, I'm not going to wait until I'm bleeding before I react.

How is that not justifiable?
 

marygaspe

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Jan 19, 2007
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It is not the common people in the area that mess it up, it's the common anti Israeli moron, Muslim extremist and the terrorists and the political meddlings of power brokers that mess it up, for the truly desreving people of the area.

You know, it's NEVER the common people who have issues when you think about it, most of us are just trying to live. And yet, it's the common people that are always getting sent off to die in these stupid wars. Just once I'd like to see the members of Parliament or the royal Family or the PM go do some actual fighting and leave us at home to get by.
 

darkbeaver

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Very true...
That is old, but it is a continued action of systematic desensitisation.
Although the extremism was created by the Imperialistic actions of western Nations, the fanatics bear some responsiblities. If you read more carefully, you may find that there is more reason then you give credit for. No one, far as I can tell, have made claims against entire groups, just the groups within nations that feed the plight. Much like your continued points about the US and Israel, there is a shoe for the other foot you know. One evil surely doesn't exonerate the other.
I hardly find them or their vitiol harmless or benign. More like a driving force of decention and strife between cultures, for reasons of power grabs and profits.
I would agree, but generalizing anyone a neo con, bigot, reicht winger and so on, that sees the actions of the extremists and does not lump all Muslims into one category, is far more balanced then those that keep preaching that use such labels and make ridiculous statements as "it is aginst their religion" therefore somehow absolving the extremists of any wrong doing. These people not only fail to grasp reality, but do everyone on both sides a disservice. They give credence to the extremists and they undermine the truly honourable Muslim people, by failing to expose the seperation of and indeed existance of an extreme eliment that surely does exist.
Although I find your anology humourous, it couldn't be any further from the truth, if you launched it in to Israel. Albeit, there is the corporate agenda on global domenation, there is an element of fanatics, that for all intents and purposess was created by the extremes of the global monster. But by heeping the entire mess on the west, you remove accountablity in one group, while demonizing another. How exactly is that constructive or reasonable?
Couldn't agree more.
I dissagre, many watched the WTC events and were able to formulate alot of opinions on their own. Many watch the news and see the leaders of the fundamentalist movement preach their destruction, many, like myself, surf the net and absorb data from many sources. But in the end, if one is put off by the loud extremists, it is not that the people of the west were taught to hate because they chose to go forth and be a bigot. They have seen and heard the threats made against them by those that preach loudest from the Muslim community, oft over shadowing or over shouting the true followers of Islam. I feel no one truly hates Islam, I for one do not, I fear those that would spread their religion by sword. If you threaten me with violence, I'm not going to wait until I'm bleeding before I react.

How is that not justifiable?

It's not justifiable because you're carrying the bags of privilage and power for the same imperialist forces that drove your own ancestors to the brink of extermination, you are perpetuating the cause of your own mortal enemys, when they finish with the Muslim they'll address the unfinished bussiness of the red man ,you have no doubt heard the crap they heap on your people, you should believe it.Use your mind man in the whole Muslim world there exists not even one aircraft carrier, not an airforce or an army that could wage war on any kind of scale even remotely approaching the western powers, those same western powers have conducted terrorist campainges against these people for two-hundred years with the most sophisticated means at thier disposal and you see the ragged peasants as a terrorist threat to your family while the terrorists who you should be fighting pat you on the head and laugh in your face. This conflict is about one thing and one thing only, stealing and holding the oil, if it were located in southeast asia we would be talking about the hateful Buddist terrorists, if it were in India and the sub continent we would be terrified of the Hindu murderers.I hope your turn never comes arround again but if it does you can look in the mirror and point your finger.:wave:
 

CDNBear

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It's not justifiable because you're carrying the bags of privilage and power for the same imperialist forces that drove your own ancestors to the brink of extermination, you are perpetuating the cause of your own mortal enemys, when they finish with the Muslim they'll address the unfinished bussiness of the red man ,you have no doubt heard the crap they heap on your people, you should believe it.
And that somehow means I should ignore one evil, to point my finger at another? I think I have the dexterity to point in two directions at once. Both sides need be held accountable.
Use your mind man in the whole Muslim world there exists not even one aircraft carrier, not an airforce or an army that could wage war on any kind of scale even remotely approaching the western powers, those same western powers have conducted terrorist campainges against these people for two-hundred years with the most sophisticated means at thier disposal and you see the ragged peasants as a terrorist threat to your family while the terrorists who you should be fighting pat you on the head and laugh in your face.
I can see an Aircraft Carrier coming, I however lack the clarvoient powers to pick and chose which cafe, bistro, movie theater, some extremist asshat 'may' decide to make a point in.

This conflict is about one thing and one thing only, stealing and holding the oil, if it were located in southeast asia we would be talking about the hateful Buddist terrorists, if it were in India and the sub continent we would be terrified of the Hindu murderers.
I couldn't possibly agree with you more. Have you been through the threads I have started, all the ones I point that out in? But it still does remove accountablity from either side, nor does it negate the threats.
I hope your turn never comes arround again but if it does you can look in the mirror and point your finger.:wave:
You still seem to think I'm some sort of supporter of the US foriegn policy. Why is that? How many times do I have to prove people wrong?
My position in these threads is that the nonsense does exist, that is all. I have not called for an excalation to the violence, nor have I stated that there is an innocent side here. Our opinions are not that far apart, on reguards top the ME. But I choose to condemn the stupidity in general. You won't find me in here crying it is against the religion of the west to do any of this, therefore it is happening, as some of the more moronic seem to think. My presence and actions here are to post the reality to counter the tripe of those that live in an alternate one and thus level the field. Not try and villify one side or the other. The perpetrators of this mess, do a fine job of that themselves. But I will always stand by Israel, they have had a tuff time of it, surrounded by death squads, not using the best judgement in choosing their friends, not using their best judgement in how they retaliate and so on.

I like this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy56WCvqDVw&mode=related&search=
 

L Gilbert

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Very true...
That is old, but it is a continued action of systematic desensitisation.
Although the extremism was created by the Imperialistic actions of western Nations, the fanatics bear some responsiblities. If you read more carefully, you may find that there is more reason then you give credit for.
Well, except for Bush wanting to extend America's influence into every little nook and cranny on the globe, the western civilisations have not bothered to try things like this:
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=170
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21082
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm?blog_id=716
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/03/the_call_for_a_.html
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/11/14/39531.html
Now I don't know about you, Beaver, but I am an atheist and really don't relish the idea of religious rule. It is too dictatorial. I like my freedom. I will rebel and they will kill me. It's simple. But to comment that they only want to be left alone is a comment based in ignorance. They are quite open when telling anyone that wants to know just exactly what they want.

No one, far as I can tell, have made claims against entire groups, just the groups within nations that feed the plight. Much like your continued points about the US and Israel, there is a shoe for the other foot you know. One evil surely doesn't exonerate the other.
I hardly find them or their vitiol harmless or benign. More like a driving force of decention and strife between cultures, for reasons of power grabs and profits.
Yup.

Although I find your anology humourous, it couldn't be any further from the truth, if you launched it in to Israel. Albeit, there is the corporate agenda on global domenation, there is an element of fanatics, that for all intents and purposess was created by the extremes of the global monster. But by heeping the entire mess on the west, you remove accountablity in one group, while demonizing another. How exactly is that constructive or reasonable?
I'm not sure I'd even call it rational.

I dissagre, many watched the WTC events and were able to formulate alot of opinions on their own. Many watch the news and see the leaders of the fundamentalist movement preach their destruction, many, like myself, surf the net and absorb data from many sources. But in the end, if one is put off by the loud extremists, it is not that the people of the west were taught to hate because they chose to go forth and be a bigot. They have seen and heard the threats made against them by those that preach loudest from the Muslim community, oft over shadowing or over shouting the true followers of Islam. I feel no one truly hates Islam, I for one do not, I fear those that would spread their religion by sword. If you threaten me with violence, I'm not going to wait until I'm bleeding before I react.

How is that not justifiable?
Now that's rational.


I think Joe Muslim are fine people and there's not that much difference between them, Joe Buddhist, Joe Christian, Joe atheist, etc. They want to be left to do whatever they do. Unfortunately there are Muslim extremists with big plans and they obviously won't stop at killing indisciminately to reach their goals. They won't fight an open way but will continue suicide bombing, car bombing, etc. and run back out of sight behind the skirts of the average Muslim until the coast is clear again. They will not stop, even if the west does.
 
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Sparrow

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This is all about people be victimized by power. Isreal has been a victim of outside powers for many years, imagine never living in peace. But don't you also think that the terrorists are also victims? They have been endoctrinated from childhood to hate to the point of being willing to be bombs. There was a video on youtube where a mother was proud that he son had blown himself up and killed innocent people. She did not think they were innocent, image the endoctrination she went through. It sure resembles the endoctrination undergone by Hitler's Brown Shirt Youths. I do not excuse any act of terrorisim but it will never stop until the HEADS are neutralized. Attacking Iran will only add to the victim list which is already more than long enough.
 

CDNBear

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Now that's rational.
Thanx, I know I may not always come across as such, I get frustrated by the overt nonsence posted as fact, by those that feel accepting the realities of life is not necessary. But that is exactly how I feel, no hidden agenda, no axes to grind, just worry. I'm not daft enough to believe all the tripe spewed by the spin doctors, that would have the preverbial pitchforked mob, chasing down the quilt work Muslim monster. I see through the hysteria, as I think most do. But I also see through the reverse. The oposing counsil as it were, seems to think all will be hunky dorey in the world, if the US just packed up and went home. Sure the US opened Pandoras box, but does that mean the evils they have insighted will crawl back under their respective rocks. I doubt it. Anyone that believes it, needs help, badly.

I think Joe Muslim are fine people and there's not that much difference between them, Joe Buddhist, Joe Christian, Joe atheist, etc. They want to be left to do whatever they do. Unfortunately there are Muslim extremists with big plans and they obviously won't stop at killing indisciminately to reach their goals. They won't fight an open way but will continue suicide bombing, car bombing, etc. and run back out of sight behind the skirts of the average Muslim until the coast is clear again. They will not stop, even if the west does.
More rational thinking.
 

darkbeaver

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Scale and duration, hold the Muslim hordes up against the western coalition and you see a pea and a beach ball.Now make that same comparison with respect to terrorism and wealth and oportunity and injustice and you will see where the reality lies. There is no fence to stand on with respect to this issue, if the western coalition wins then every free man on the planet looses and our children will pay for our stupidity and work for the corporations till every blade of grass has been sold over the counter and we're all dead.If the Muslims drive the occupiers from thier lands they will have won what is thiers by right of birth, only when the imperialists are gone from thier lands will there be any justice and democracy in the middle east, it has always been the case that the repressive regimes of that region have been supported by the west either directly or indirectly. They have no autonomy and yet we blame them for all the injustice in thier own backyards.What right has an American or a Briton to dictate what will do or not do in that region, and what right do european Jews have to sieze and occupy Arab lands at the point of a gun to keep and expand thier ill gotten gains.If you support the rule of arms over the rule of law then there's very little to hope for in the future but continued suppression of justice and the destruction of the planet to stuff the rich and powerful.:wave:
 

Colpy

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Scale and duration, hold the Muslim hordes up against the western coalition and you see a pea and a beach ball.Now make that same comparison with respect to terrorism and wealth and oportunity and injustice and you will see where the reality lies. There is no fence to stand on with respect to this issue, if the western coalition wins then every free man on the planet looses and our children will pay for our stupidity and work for the corporations till every blade of grass has been sold over the counter and we're all dead.If the Muslims drive the occupiers from thier lands they will have won what is thiers by right of birth, only when the imperialists are gone from thier lands will there be any justice and democracy in the middle east, it has always been the case that the repressive regimes of that region have been supported by the west either directly or indirectly. They have no autonomy and yet we blame them for all the injustice in thier own backyards.What right has an American or a Briton to dictate what will do or not do in that region, and what right do european Jews have to sieze and occupy Arab lands at the point of a gun to keep and expand thier ill gotten gains.If you support the rule of arms over the rule of law then there's very little to hope for in the future but continued suppression of justice and the destruction of the planet to stuff the rich and powerful.:wave:

DB, this little rant suffers from so many lapses of logic that the mind boggles.......but consider this.......

You complain about the west and our inevitable enslavement by the almighty corporation......but I challenge you to find a civilization on earth that has made its people so free and so rich..........good luck.

Meanwhile, you express support for the Islamic world in their struggle against the west.......but I ask you.....is it our fault the trillions of dollars we have poured into The ME to buy oil has been used to enrich the few, to build large (inefficient) military machines, and to oppress their own people?

No.

ANd, while you are expressing this opinion, I would ask that you consider the fact that if you lived openly in any of those nations, voicing the opinions you so freely do here, and engaging in the lifestyle you do here, your lifespan would be measured in DAYS!

So why do you support those who impose murderous regimes upon their own people?
 

darkbeaver

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Well, except for Bush wanting to extend America's influence into every little nook and cranny on the globe, the western civilisations have not bothered to try things like this:
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=170
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21082
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm?blog_id=716
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/03/the_call_for_a_.html
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/11/14/39531.html
Now I don't know about you, Beaver, but I am an atheist and really don't relish the idea of religious rule. It is too dictatorial. I like my freedom. I will rebel and they will kill me. It's simple. But to comment that they only want to be left alone is a comment based in ignorance. They are quite open when telling anyone that wants to know just exactly what they want.

Yup.

I'm not sure I'd even call it rational.

Now that's rational.


I think Joe Muslim are fine people and there's not that much difference between them, Joe Buddhist, Joe Christian, Joe atheist, etc. They want to be left to do whatever they do. Unfortunately there are Muslim extremists with big plans and they obviously won't stop at killing indisciminately to reach their goals. They won't fight an open way but will continue suicide bombing, car bombing, etc. and run back out of sight behind the skirts of the average Muslim until the coast is clear again. They will not stop, even if the west does.

I am an atheist myself and don't relish religious rule either. But the religious rule I fear the most is the one that controls much of the US government, Christian fundementalists are far more powerful than the Islamic hordes and thier in a nieghbourhood near you.:wave:
 

gopher

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marygaspe said:
I often wonder, and I'm not defending them per se, how it would feel living in Israel. A long history of persecution part of the national pysche and surrounded by people who utterl despise you and your nation and people.I wonder, given all that, how we would behave if it was our people and our country?


You may recall two of my posts on just that subject: one was of the wife of a friend who was a pacifist and medic in the IDF. She was so sick and tired of Israel's aggression that she left that country in disgust. In the other post I showed where Israel has one of the highest rates of emigration in the world. This should show that if Israel was such a great nation, people would stand up and fight for it. But they don't because it is an aggressor nation, contrary to the delusional hate filled liars on this forum and elsewhere who continue to defend it.

BTW, this brings to mind another posting I made which showed where the majority of the world's population agreed that it is Israel that is the most aggressor nation on earth.

Israle can have peace any time it wants -- all it needs to do is to comply with the UN Security Council Resolutions that it continually violates with impunity.
 

gopher

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Campaign of Lies against Iran

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/campaign-of-lies-and-misinformation-against-iran


Wednesday, February 7th, 2007 Campaign of lies and misinformation against Iran

Peter Symonds
As it prepares for military aggression against Iran, the Bush administration is once again resorting to a concoction of lies, misinformation and half-truths to provide the pretext. In his January 10 speech announcing an escalation of the war in Iraq, President Bush denounced Syria and Iran for backing anti-US insurgents and declared the American military would “seek out and destroy” these networks. He has since confirmed ordering US troops to “capture or kill” Iranian agents in Iraq.
Bush’s speech has been followed by a steady stream of top US officials condemning Iran’s alleged “meddling” in Iraq—all relayed to the world by a compliant media. To date not a shred of evidence has been provided to support the allegations. Nevertheless, like Bush’s claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, the accusations against Iran are simply repeated ad naseum as fact.
US ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, was due to present a “dossier” to the media on January 31 aimed at proving US contentions about Iranian activities in Iraq. The briefing in Baghdad, however, was cancelled without explanation—for a second time, with no future date given. While various excuses were given, the real reason for putting the dossier “on hold” was the lack of evidence and concern about the public reaction in the US.
According to the Los Angeles Times on February 1, US officials were concerned that “some of the material may be inconclusive”. They wanted to “avoid repeating the embarrassment that followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, when it became clear that the information cited to justify the war was incorrect,” the newspaper explained. “We don’t want a repeat of the situation we had when [former US Secretary of State] Colin Powell went before the United Nations. People are going to be sceptical,” one official explained.
A former senior defence official bluntly told the Los Angeles Times that the task of presenting a case against Iran to a sceptical American public was “a losing proposition”. Others explained that in interagency meetings on Iran, State Department and intelligence officials believed that “some of the material overstates murky evidence and casts a negative light on Iranians who may not be guilty”. Another claimed that if sensitive intelligence material were withdrawn, “the result could be a weak and unconvincing report”.
The dubious character of the US evidence was confirmed by National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley in the course of a press conference on February 3. In response to persistent questioning about the cancellation of the Baghdad briefing, Hadley finally blurted out: “The truth is, quite frankly, we thought the briefing overstated. And we sent it back to get it narrowed and focused on the facts.”
Hadley’s press conference had been called to release an unclassified summary of a new National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iraq compiled by all 16 US intelligence agencies. As well as providing a bleak picture of the prospects for the US occupation of Iraq, the document played down the significance of outside influence on the situation in Iraq.
While repeating US claims of “Iranian lethal support” for Shiite militants in Iraq and “expatriate Iraqi Baathists” using Syria as a safe haven, the NIE stated: “Iraq’s neighbours influence, and are influenced by, events within Iraq, but the involvement of these outside actors is not likely to be a major driver of violence or the prospects for stability because of the self-sustaining character of Iraq’s internal sectarian dynamics.” That is, in the words of the NIE, Iran and Syria are not significant factors in the escalating civil war in Iraq.
The lack of evidence has done nothing to rein in Bush’s propagandists, however. In an interview on National Public Radio on February 1, US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns accused Iran of assisting Shiite militias in attacks on British soldiers near Basra and on American forces in Baghdad. “Now, we warned Iran, privately on a number of occasions over the last year and a half, and the Iranians, of course, did not appear to listen to that. So now we have begun to detain those Iranian officials. And we think it’s absolutely within our rights to do so under Article 51 of the UN Charter, which is self-defence.”
Just hours after Bush’s speech on January 10, US military forces captured five Iranian officials in a provocative early morning raid on a diplomatic office in the northern Iraqi city of Irbil. American officials have claimed that some of those detained were Iranian intelligence agents and that maps and other materials “prove” their involvement in sectarian violence. No evidence has been made public and the five remain in US custody without charge despite protests not only by Tehran but also top Iraqi officials.
The operation followed the detention in Baghdad on December 20 of at least five Iranians, including two credentialled diplomats. All were released. Two of the five were detained in a highly provocative raid in the compound of prominent Shiite leader Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, whose party is a major component of the Iraqi ruling coalition and who held talks with Bush in Washington just a week before. Iran’s ambassador to Iraq, Hassan Kazemi Qumi, insisted that the two security officials were engaged in legitimate discussions with the Iraqi government and should never have been detained.
A significant aspect of Burns’s comments was his reference to Article 51 of the UN Charter. Since the 2003 invasion, the US military has arbitrarily detained scores, if not hundreds, of foreign nationals without trial, without appealing to the UN Charter. Article 51 of the UN Charter has nothing to do with detentions. It provides for the “inherent right of individual or collective self-defence” of a member state against armed attack, and was envisaged to cover direct acts of aggression such as those carried out by Nazi Germany prior to World war II.
From the standpoint of the Bush administration, the most important aspect of Article 51 is that it is the only clause of the UN Charter that allows for military action without prior reference to the UN Security Council. The unproven accusations that Iran is supporting “armed attacks” on US forces in Iraq could thus be seized upon by Washington as the spurious justification for sidestepping the UN altogether and initiating an assault on Iran, all in the name of “self-defence”. Burns’s invocation of Article 51 says more about the thinking in the White House than perhaps he would have wished.
Questioned about US intentions to strike or invade Iran, Burns repeated the standard line of the Bush administration that “all options are on the table”. Asked directly to comment on the US military build up in the Persian Gulf and the danger of war with Iran, Burns was non-committal. “I don’t believe that a military conflict with Iran is inevitable,” he said, adding that a diplomatic solution was possible. But his strident demand that Iran should “cease and desist” from providing arms to Shiite insurgents to “target and kill American soldiers” indicates that the US is intent on ratchetting up its bellicose rhetoric against Iran.
Pentagon consultant Dan Goure told the British-based Sunday Telegraph last weekend: “You cannot try to deal with the militia [in Iraq] if you’re not dealing with the Iranians backing them. The message now is that the gloves are off.” According to the article, the US has increased the number of unmanned spy planes monitoring the Iran-Iraq border to provide for 24-hour surveillance. A US intelligence officer told the newspaper that the drones were being flown into Iran. He said that while the military was not currently planning attacks inside Iran, once suspects were a few miles inside Iraq, they would be “whacked”.
At some stage, as its provocations against Iran intensify, there is no doubt that the Bush administration will present a “dossier” to try to justify its aggression. But the fact that it has been put “on hold,” despite ongoing claims by US officials to have “irrefutable” proof of Iran’s support for anti-US militias, is a tell-tale sign that the evidence is, at the very least, threadbare and unconvincing. Like the lies about Iraqi WMDs in Colin Powell’s presentation to the UN and the corresponding British dossier on Iraq, the US is casting around for a convenient pretext to provide the casus belli for war against Iran.









Sure, we get the same old BS from the likes of neoKKKons in the Jerusalem Post, and WorldNet, but none of it is authenticated. Delusional haters may love that sh*t but there isn't a shred of truth in that crap. Significantly, when Bush has his henchmen appearing before Congress and repeating these bogus claims, no actual evidence is presented to prove any of the bogus claims being made. This is just like the campaign for war against Iraq -- the same rumors are repeated over and over again but no evidence is presented. A war arises because of those lies and then the aggressors try to rationalize their war by pretending that it is a good thing. Significantly, that was the same tactic used by Hitler and the Nazis.



For those of you who call yourselves Christian, you must always refrain from bearing false witness against anyone. Implicit in that sacred instruction from your Bible is the fact that you must never allow yourself to submit to lies. Since aggressor Israel and its supporters continually resort to lies, you must never allow yourselves to be deluded by them.
 

gopher

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Pentagon's Campaign of Lies against Iran

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May06/Leupp29.htm

“Echoes of Germany Under Hitler”
The Office of Iranian Affairs, Embedded Journalism,
and the Disinformation Campaign for War on Iran
by Gary Leupp
www.dissidentvoice.org
May 29, 2006









According to Laura Rozen of the Los Angeles Times, the Office of Special Plans has been reincarnated as the Office of Iranian Affairs, apparently housed in the same Pentagon offices inhabited by its predecessor and involving some of the same slimy personnel. Notably, Abram Shulsky, who headed the OSP under Douglas Feith, is back. His crew will be reporting to none other than Elizabeth Cheney, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, and daughter of the Vice President. Dick Cheney is generally understood to be the strongest advocate for an attack on Iran in the administration.(He is also, by the way, architect of Bush’s “signing statements” appended to laws entitling him to ignore them.He is the man behind the throne, surrounded by neocon acolytes.)

As I wrote last November, “it is too soon to speak of the ‘twilight of the neocons’ while [John] Hannah, [Stephen] Hadley, [William] Luti, [David] Wurmser, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, John Negroponte and other neocons remain in power, with [Michael] Ledeen and [Abram] Shulsky still skulking about.” This was the same month that Democrats staged an abortive mini-rebellion in the Senate, demanding that the Intelligence Committee’s long-delayed Phase II investigation focusing on Feith’s OSP finally get off the ground. But this seems to have been deliberately delayed by the initiation of a separate in-house investigation of Feith’s office by the Pentagon’s inspector general. Feith’s successor and fellow neocon Eric Edelman and Rumsfeld’s intelligence chief Stephen Cambone are supposedly cooperating on that. I wouldn’t expect any startling report detailing the disinformation campaign leading to the Iraq war anytime soon.

Meanwhile, Abram Shulsky, the neocon’s neocon, a scholar of Leo Strauss and Machiavelli, who has written about the application of Strauss’s thought to intelligence, is back.The Straussians of course uphold the use of disinformation (“noble lies”) to prepare the public for the difficult choices they, the Wise, have made. Already there is evidence for the deliberate planting of bogus stories planted in the press, such as occurred in the months leading up to the Iraq attack. Amir Tahiri’s report on the front page of Canada’s National Post about a religious dress code adopted by the Iranian parliament was immediately, eagerly embraced by State Department spokesman Sean McCormick, who at a May 19 press briefing was asked by James Rosen of Fox News the following:

QUESTION: On Iran, are you aware or is the Department aware of published reports stating that the Iranian parliament this week passed a measure that would require non-Muslims to wear badges that identify them as such?

MR. MCCORMACK: I have seen the news reports. These have, I think, recycled over time. There is -- as I understand it, there is a -- some law currently in the parliament, the exact nature of which is unclear, so I’m not going to try to delve into giving a definitive comment or a detailed comment about something about which I don't have all the facts.

That said, if you did have such an occurrence, whether it was in Iran or elsewhere, it would certainly be despicable.

QUESTION: Can I just follow up for a second on it?

MR. MCCORMACK: Go ahead.

QUESTION: You said that it’s been something that, to your understanding, has been recycled over time. How long has the Department been following it or did you just become aware of these reports today for the first time?

MR. MCCORMACK: Well, I've seen various news -- similar news reports and I can’t give you the exact dates, you know months ago, and they seem to be coming up again, based on the progression of -- well, I guess, for lack of a better term -- law through the Iranian parliament. The exact nature of that law is a little bit unclear and the exact motivations behind that are a little unclear. So I can’t offer, like I said, a detailed comment about it.

QUESTION: Two more questions, if I might. What is the -- what kinds of means does the Department have at its disposal for verifying the passage of laws in the Iranian parliament?

MR. MCCORMACK: Well, certainly we have access to open source material and we also talk frequently with other countries who have diplomatic representation in Iran.

QUESTION: And is there an effort underway right now to ascertain more about this?

MR. MCCORMACK: Yes.

QUESTION: And why would it be despicable, if it were true?

MR. MCCORMACK: Well, I think it has clear echoes, James, of Germany in the -- under Hitler, so I think that that’s pretty clear. But again, you know, I don’t want to delve too deeply into that because we don’t have the facts.

Does anybody else smell the soggy sheets of embedded journalism here? The Canadian paper was retracting the sensationalistic story even as McCormick spoke. There is in fact discussion in the Iranian Majlis about a law specifying Islamic dress. There’ve been laws about appropriate dress in Iran for better or worse since the inception of the Islamic Republic, so this is nothing new. But badges? The disinformationists may have cooked that up recalling an effort by Afghanistan’s Taliban in 2001 to require Hindus to wear yellow badges. Or maybe they were thinking about their own press badges.

I can just imagine some brainstorming session between the Office of Iranian Affairs guys and some Judith Miller-types.

“So what else can we do to equate Ahmadinejad to Hitler?”

“How about the dress code law?”

“Well, that’s an Islamic thing, like the dress code in Saudi Arabia.”

“We could say, badges.

“Badges?”

“You know, like Star of David badges in Nazi Germany.”

“Do they really plan badges?”

“No, but remember the Taliban, how they put yellow badges on Hindus in 2001?”

“Yeah, in Afghanistan.”

“People will buy it. They won’t distinguish Afghanistan and Iran.”

“Yeah, and if the Afghans could do it, the Iranians could.”

“And the Germans.”

“Yeah, that works. Let’s try it.”

“The administration will comment on a press report. We’ll cover our ass and say we don’t have all the facts. But if it’s true, it’s awful.”

“Follow-up question will prompt the reference to the Nazis.”

“Yeah, that’s good. Let’s get on it.”

In the coming weeks I’d expect a rash of false reports emanating from the duplicitous fear-mongering apparatus straddling the press and the Bush administration as the western alliance heatedly debates Cheney’s plans to attack Iran, as Israel intensifies its campaign to encourage such an attack, and as U.S. efforts to legitimatize the use of force through the UN Security Council run their course. Jorge Hirsch makes a good case for the possibility that the administration will accuse Iran of spreading bird flu into the west. Yes, it’s nuts. (Just as nuts as the reports by Martin Arostegui in Insight Magazine after 9-11 suggesting “evidence pointing to [Fidel] Castro’s involvement with the introduction of West Nile virus into the U.S. via migratory birds.”John Bolton and Pat Robertson have used such material to build a case for regime change in Cuba.)

Justin Raimondo of Antiwar.com dissects a report in Israel’s most popular newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth to the effect that the Lebanese Shiite party Hizbollah, aligned with Iran, plans a terrorist attack on the World Cup soccer tournament in Germany.Here’s another story to watch warily. The Europeans only last year, reluctantly and under U.S. pressure, added Hizbollah to their list of international terrorist organizations. But demonizing Hizbollah is key to the U.S. and Israeli policy of effecting regime change in Syria and Lebanon. The still mysterious assassination last February of Rafiq Hariri was immediately attributed by U.S. officials to Hizbollah’s patron Syria. Iran is an even more important Hizbollah supporter.

There was a real attack by some Arabs on a sports event in Munich, Germany in 1972. Palestinian terrorists seized the Israeli athletes’ quarters and killed eleven. Maybe some are thinking, “What if something like that happened again? People would be so outraged! And if we could blame Iran -- well, enough said!”

The strategy is clear. Define a target as evil. Find some kind of connection with weapons of mass destruction -- chemical, biological, nuclear -- or just to low-tech “terrorism,” draw some sort of Hitler parallel and get strategically placed press people on board. Plant the stories, then cite them as though they were troubling news to you. Then cite “intelligence” -- this mystical reservoir of wisdom restricted to the elite (rather like the gnosis of ancient mystery religions) -- trusting that the foolish masses will accept it on faith, at least until the job’s all done and the noble lies are inevitably exposed. You can always scapegoat the intelligence community for any errors. It can’t, by its very nature, resist that scapegoating.

And maybe, just maybe, the neocon-led administration will stage something in Germany or elsewhere that could serve as another 9-11. In his Universal Fascism (1995), prominent neocon Michael Ledeen (widely accused of involvement in the Niger uranium forgery) wrote, “In order to achieve the most noble accomplishments, the leader may have to ‘enter into evil.’ This is the chilling insight that has made Machiavelli so feared, admired and challenging... [W]e [ordinary people] are rotten.... It’s true that we can achieve greatness if, and only if, we are properly led.”

What I’d call “proper leadership” at this point is calling for regime change in this country, through impeachment or more radical methods.There is a race for time, a battle to create public opinion, lopsided given the mainstream press’s abject deference to the neocon project. There is no emotion stronger than fear, and the Bush administration so clumsy about everything else deploys this weapon with extraordinary deftness. In opposition the antiwar movement at its best wields critical reason, humanism, truth. However powerful the lies, that truth will ultimately out. Sooner better than later.

Gary Leupp is a Professor of History, and Adjunct Professor of Comparative Religion, at Tufts University and author of numerous works on Japanese history. He can be reached at: gleupp@granite.tufts.edu.




Yes, the idea that Jews had to wear badges in Iran was proven to be a monstrous lie but people were quick to believe it. Everything else that you hear or read about Iran (such as the lie that it is fomenting civil war in Iraq or that it has nukes) is part of the campaign of lies that is being exposed in my posts. The hatemongers and delusionals who profit from war hope you will pay attention to their lies and believe them just as many of you did during their campaign of hate and lies against Iraq. Nothing said about Iraq was true. Nothing being said about Iran today has any truth to it, either. Therefore, it is up to you: believe the lies from the sick-minded hatemongers such as Worldnet, Jerusalem Post, and the left wing terrorists in MEK or the truth. It is YOUR choice.
 

L Gilbert

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I am an atheist myself and don't relish religious rule either. But the religious rule I fear the most is the one that controls much of the US government, Christian fundementalists are far more powerful than the Islamic hordes and thier in a nieghbourhood near you.:wave:
Perhaps they are more powerful, but they aren't anywhere near as cruel. I don't suppose you read my links about the effects of the absence of vitamin D and sunlight. Now consider the oppressive garbage that male Arabs inflict on their women. I had a Lebanese g/f one time said that a lot of ME women that wear those robes and whatnot are in constant pain from about 13 to 15 years old and on till they die. Anything that goes wrong in the household is the woman's fault. These religious nuts are incredibly mean and think they are thoroughly justified in doing whatever they want by their religion. Show me a priest or a minister that had a woman mutilated, stoned, or beaten senseless for anything. http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-iraqconflict/women_2681.jsp http://www.awakenedwoman.com/wfafi_stoning.htm
When was the last time Bush ordered a man to watch his family tortured and killed mjust to free the man's tongue. Or do you think all those tales of Soddam Insane were just lies?
Yeah, Khameinei, al-Asad, Abdallah II, etc. are real saints.:roll:
 
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CDNBear

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Rationality/Reality as expressed by the by those that support the Arab nazi party's in all their forms...

"neoKKKons in the Jerusalem Post"

This statement reminds me of the Sesame Street episodes of the 70's, you all may remember the song.

"one of these things is not like the other"

I find it very difficult to follow the 'rational' and 'reasoning' of those that in one breath, claim all of Israel is in fact communist, and we are all supporting communism, when we support Israel. Then in another, claim that there are neokkkons a foot in their journalistic community and equates them to the KKK. With the seathing anti Israeli rants and support shown for the Arab nazi party's by these volk, I doubt not, that the anti Israeli crowd here, are quite familiar with the KKK. A group that wishes to see the Arabs wipe the Israeli's off the map. The irrational, unrealistic and hypocritical nonsense abounds. They claim Israel is a 'Zionist/communist' state, in a derogatory way, then quote Peter Symond a socialist writer for World Socialist We Site.org. The they claim everyone else is racist, as they defend the nazi Arab regimes, that would not only crush Israel, but spread their version of the words of Islam, across the globe, by sword.

Their delusions that the conversation is about digging up enough dirt to support an attack on Iran, is only further proof of their failure to grasp reality. The fact of the matter is, that due to outside influences, ie; The US. There has been a great stuggle in the ME. It has created a sea of hate and that sea of hate is just boiling away as the west reeps the profits. This of course is going to breed more hate and anyone with a modecome of critical thought, can assertain for themselves that it is that much of a stretch of the imagination, that, that hate is being taught to the kids.

This is not a reason for attacking Iran, it is an excellent reason not to.

All this of course is lost on those that perpetualy generalizes anyone that dissagrees with them, as neokkkon, bigots and nazi's. Especialy when, if you examine the issue and what has been said, there is more proof that some of those that thrust such labels blindly upon those that live in the constraints of reality, spew more bigotry and stupidity, then anyone else. This is only compounded by their delusions that a one state solution will not end with the extermination of the Jews, again.

And I'll say it agin, don't let reality get in your way.
 
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CDNBear

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Scale and duration, hold the Muslim hordes up against the western coalition and you see a pea and a beach ball.Now make that same comparison with respect to terrorism and wealth and oportunity and injustice and you will see where the reality lies. There is no fence to stand on with respect to this issue, if the western coalition wins then every free man on the planet looses and our children will pay for our stupidity and work for the corporations till every blade of grass has been sold over the counter and we're all dead.If the Muslims drive the occupiers from thier lands they will have won what is thiers by right of birth, only when the imperialists are gone from thier lands will there be any justice and democracy in the middle east, it has always been the case that the repressive regimes of that region have been supported by the west either directly or indirectly. They have no autonomy and yet we blame them for all the injustice in thier own backyards.What right has an American or a Briton to dictate what will do or not do in that region, and what right do european Jews have to sieze and occupy Arab lands at the point of a gun to keep and expand thier ill gotten gains.If you support the rule of arms over the rule of law then there's very little to hope for in the future but continued suppression of justice and the destruction of the planet to stuff the rich and powerful.:wave:
I fear and feel that this blind look, is more based on your political alliegence, then it is on the reality of the situation.
Yes the US will cook the books and doctor photos to start a war for oil.
Yes the size of one more then monumentaly over shadows the other.
Yes the west made the monter.

So now what.

We roll over and play dead?
Become road kill on the highway of history?

The monster in our nightmares has been materialized by the oily mechanizations of the Imperial west. I get it. So now we should just fold up the beach chairs and wait for our turn at the end of the baptismal sword?

btw, I will point out again, that if Israel is truly looking to just grab land, why is it they returned the oil rich Sinai? I've asked this question a dozen times and not one of the supporters of the Arab nazi machine has been brave enough to answer it. You on the other hand, seem strong, perhaps you can.
The dictators are bought and maintained by the money, western money.I don't support muderous regimes, you do, your just to stunned to realize it.
Then what do you support, what are your ideas, on how to end the aggression. No offence, but if you do in fact reply to this, could you make it more of a Q and A, as apposed to the rant. As much as the rants are well thought out, I feel I would get a bet insight if your answer was detialed and consice, point by point.
I am an atheist myself and don't relish religious rule either. But the religious rule I fear the most is the one that controls much of the US government, Christian fundementalists are far more powerful than the Islamic hordes and thier in a nieghbourhood near you.:wave:
Yes they are in my neighbourhood. But they are not controlling my government, therefore I am still free to fly my Six Nations and MWS flags above my Canadian flag, I can have a sweat lodge in my backyard, without fear of of death, my children can wear their medicine pouches to school, without fear of being beat by the lil Christian kids.

All that is a luxury and privilege we all enjoy in the west, the illusion of freedom is more appealing then the reality of opression.
 

CDNBear

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gopher, you have claimed it enough times now, so could you please show us where anyone has called for an attack on Iran in this thread?

Or will you just call me stupid again and then claim that this post is nothing but stupidity and another example of my supposed bigotry and racism? Something else I would love to see you prove.

Oh I know, you will now claim that you never said that. That in and of itself is true, but you keep saying things in your posts about the members here at CC, being racists, bigots, supporters of a war with Iran. So please, with all your fine tuned intellect, please post your proof, please post something where a member has sad we should enter into conflict with Iran.

Either that, or we can just assume it is all a big lie and a delusion and then dismiss your opinions as irrational fabrications, based on lies.
 

I think not

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We in the west have been taught for many years to hate the Muslims, hate the Socialists, hate the Communists hate the atheists, hate and belittle those who are not nationalistic or patriotic.

You're right, "Aladin", "Lawrence of Arabia" and all the other fairy tales and movies, teach how Muslims are hell bent on destroying the West. Through "Animal Farm" (one the most read books in the West) we teach our kids how Socialism and Communism are evil.

You're absolutely wrong DB, as usual. :wave: