Intersection

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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1650989831860.jpeg The cross symbol is associated with the biblical tree of life (Genesis 2:9; 3:22, 24; Proverbs 3:18; 11:30; 13:12; 15:4; Revelation 2:7; 22:2, 14, 19).
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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I prefer a live tree, but that's just me.

I was always surprised that Jesus's first words to his cult after the crucifixion weren't "For my next trick. . ."
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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I prefer a live tree, but that's just me.

I was always surprised that Jesus's first words to his cult after the crucifixion weren't "For my next trick. . ."
I am blessed to know that Jesus’ repeated first words to his disciples were “Peace be with you!” (John 20:19, 21, NIV).
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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1650999281792.jpeg A cross symbol formed in the wreckage of the World Trade Center is preserved and displayed in the National September 11 Memorial Museum in New York City.
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Because it's a predominantly-Christian country.

Duh.
The symbol of the cross is a paradoxical intersection of harm and healing.
Joseph, who was sold into slavery by his brothers prefigured Christ when he declared: “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives” (Genesis 50:20, NIV).
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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How did the meaning of the cross change from historical suffering and shame to relief, insurance, provision, protection and valor in our culture today?

Referencing Jesus directly, the writer of Hebrews notes the intersection of shame and joy associated with the cross of Christ: “For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God” (Hebrews 12:2b, NIV).
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Still not a shred of evidence.
We who are being transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2) are the evidence, Friend. Quantitatively, there is objective evidence in my academic transcripts before and after Christ of the reformative power of Christ’s cross.
 

Dexter Sinister

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We who are being transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2) are the evidence
That's not evidence in any meaningful sense, it's an entirely subjective understanding of a mental state that says nothing at all about the truth, or otherwise, of your religious claims.
Quantitatively, there is objective evidence in my academic transcripts before and after Christ of the reformative power of Christ’s cross.
You mean you're doing better academically since you found Jesus? Good for you, but that's not evidence either, all it means is that you're happier and better focused, which again says nothing at all about the truth content of your religious claims. Lots of people believe lots of things that aren't in fact true, just because it makes them happier. As George Bernard Shaw put it years ago, "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

But at least now I can see how to turn a series of posts belaboring the obvious on the significance and meaning of a common symbol into didactic witnessing for your beliefs. I was sure from the outset you were heading that way, you always have in all your threads that I've read, but it wasn't as obvious as it usually is how you were going to do that. I doubt you've changed any minds.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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That's not evidence in any meaningful sense, it's an entirely subjective understanding of a mental state that says nothing at all about the truth, or otherwise, of your religious claims.

You mean you're doing better academically since you found Jesus? Good for you, but that's not evidence either, all it means is that you're happier and better focused, which again says nothing at all about the truth content of your religious claims. Lots of people believe lots of things that aren't in fact true, just because it makes them happier. As George Bernard Shaw put it years ago, "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

But at least now I can see how to turn a series of posts belaboring the obvious on the significance and meaning of a common symbol into didactic witnessing for your beliefs. I was sure from the outset you were heading that way, you always have in all your threads that I've read, but it wasn't as obvious as it usually is how you were going to do that. I doubt you've changed any minds.
Thanks for weighing in, DS.

I don't expect to change minds. From a biblical perspective, our minds consist of all our mental, emotional, and spiritual faculties. It is our Creator who transforms our minds by His Spirit. God's mindset standard is Christ. More than mere cognition, this transformation affects our thoughts, desires, words and deeds, and consequently, our relationships (Philippians 2:1-8).
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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The symbol of the cross aids us in understanding the nature of our relationships from a biblical perspective.

The vertical beam can depict our relationship with God. The horizontal beam can represent our relationships with other people. The vertical beam is the weight-bearing one - it supports the vertical beam and all that is fixed to the cross. At the intersection of these two beams is Jesus.

Our relationship with God in Christ (vertical) supports our Christian relationships with others (horizontal). Two familiar Bible passages - the ten commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) and the Lord's prayer (Matthew 6:9-13) illustrate this truth. They both prioritize our relationship with God first, then our relationships with others. Paul also writes this way - doctrine first, then practice.

Do you have any troubling relationships in your life? The spiritual order is clear: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself'” (Matthew 22:37-39, NIV).
 

Torch light

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Dec 4, 2017
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The cross is an idol, clearly and obviously.
The statue of the Christ hanged on the cross is the idea and the reality of such cross.
Abu Abd-Allah said: "How could Jesus say: let everyone carry his cross and follow me... while he had not yet crucified!? How could they comprehend the idea of the crucifixion which had not yet happened? "
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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The cross is an idol, clearly and obviously.
The statue of the Christ hanged on the cross is the idea and the reality of such cross.
Abu Abd-Allah said: "How could Jesus say: let everyone carry his cross and follow me... while he had not yet crucified!? How could they comprehend the idea of the crucifixion which had not yet happened? "
1) Crucifixion was a well-established practice in Roman-occupied first century Palestine. 2) Jesus often employed common cultural metaphors to illustrate spiritual truths. 3) The foreknowledge of God informs divine prophecy. I hope you will share this with Abu Abd-Allah, TL.
 
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