Influential U.S. think tank urges Obama to reject Keystone XL
- Thread starter mentalfloss
- Start date
Oh yeah? China... a nation that is thousands of years old... a massive economy, soon to surpass the US... a highly capable military... a manned space program... a country that could buy and sell Canada is one of those developing countries.
Fair...LMAO... whatev.
Fair...LMAO... whatev.
There is a logical conclusion to most arguments, but that conclusion is independent of the lobbying on both sides.
And Eaglesmack, I believe that governments should take steps toward reducing carbon emissions and taking such steps doesn't have to adversely affect the economy or the tax payers.
Logic is merely a way of organising information. It cannot produce new information. And it cannot answer "values" questions like "Should Keystone be built?" You can use logic thusly:
Major premise: If Keystone will reduce the amount of oil spills, it should be built.
Minor premise: Keystone will reduce the amount of oil spills.
Conclusion: Keystone should be built.
Good luck getting agreement on either the major or the minor premise.
It's more about stopping an unnecessary trend.
Keystone XL on its own may well be moderately unsafe for the environment, but we should be looking further down the line.
Ultimately, the earlier (and smoother) we make our transition to energy independence, the better it is for the economy and the environment.
Keystone XL on its own may well be moderately unsafe for the environment, but we should be looking further down the line.
Ultimately, the earlier (and smoother) we make our transition to energy independence, the better it is for the economy and the environment.
Please please please... you're a dreamer and naive.
A good guy... but a dreamer and naive when it comes to this.
I sort of agree, depending on what you mean by "energy independence." If you mean renewable energy, I agree completely. I think we should start investing massively in alternate energy technology. But by even the most optimistic estimates, we'll still need oil for a long time. Thus, Keystone, if safer/more efficient for transporting oil, is a good idea.
Canada and the US are on the verge of becoming energy dependent... and THAT is upsetting the apple cart for the alarmists.
Projects like Keystone, if approved, is a huge defeat for alarmists.
We have been. How many millions wasted?
We already reached peak production a long time ago so dropping this project really won't do any harm.
I think we have enough at current production levels to last us for at least 100 years or so.
LMAO. Dude... seriously?
We're not even close! I know the greenies want to stop production and scale back but we aren't at peak production.
Oooookaaay
Assuming the definition of "peak production" doesn't change. Big assumption.
Assuming the projections for energy usage are correct. Another big assumption.
Hey, I'm simply arguing we are not causing any tremors in the economy if we gradually scale down.
If you guys believe that any change in production would have a significant impact, I would hear that argument as well.
Individual nations have already reached peak oil. U.S. production peaked in 1971 and has been in decline ever since [source: EIA]. As global oil production appears to have plateaued in 2005, some analysts say the world has already peaked. Fredrik Robelius of the Uppsala Hydrocarbon Depletion Study Group, however, predicts it will peak sometime between now and 2018 [source: ASPO].
"When will we run out of oil, and what happens then? "
If you guys believe that any change in production would have a significant impact, I would hear that argument as well.
Individual nations have already reached peak oil. U.S. production peaked in 1971 and has been in decline ever since [source: EIA]. As global oil production appears to have plateaued in 2005, some analysts say the world has already peaked. Fredrik Robelius of the Uppsala Hydrocarbon Depletion Study Group, however, predicts it will peak sometime between now and 2018 [source: ASPO].
"When will we run out of oil, and what happens then? "
Why should we?
Are you going to sacrifice your lifestyle? Heck no you aren't.
I expects to see you right here on CanCon. Using your unsustainable PC or laptop... utilizing unsustainable servers and unsustainable fiber optic cable.
Why bother? It is a fool's errand. You've not change your view one bit.
Glad you agree.
Money is never wasted, Eagle. Mad King Ludwig spent himself into the poorhouse, then into the madhouse, then into the deadhouse, building his fantasy castles in Bavaria. It was a big reason he was deposed. Now those castles are the biggest part of Bavaria's tourist economy, and have paid for themselves hundreds of times over.
Same with any money spent on basic research. So far, money spent on basic research has a long-term return factor far higher than any other type of spending. And much of the "green energy" money has gone into basic research.
See, the whole concept of "waste" is a value judgment. It's a spending/results ratio. Because you dislike Obama, you will declare any spending in which his administration engages as "wasteful," when in fact, partly as a result of the money the Obama administration put into green energy, the percentage of total U.S. energy use that comes from green energy is at an all-time high, and likely to increase even more. Whether the result was worth the cost is a value question, upon which people can disagree. That research money also provided jobs (all y'all right-wingers are big on "creating jobs" this week, ain't you?), and circulated in the economy. So it wasn't wasted.
But personally, I'll bet you would regard any research money spent by a Democratic administration as "wasted," and any research money spent by a Republican administration as "a sound, prudent investment in the future."
Gradually lowering production is meant to avoid this drastic a change.
That's why we're trying to determine what meets a sustainable standard.
You see... T-Bones already briefly explained peak oil assumptions.
That means nothing to you.
It is folly trying to expect much from you.
I'd rather post stuff like this...
Hey, I already stated I'm just going by the info. I have here.
This isn't a pissing match, so if you disagree then post the evidence for it.
This isn't a pissing match, so if you disagree then post the evidence for it.