If You Think Bush Is Evil Now...

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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kelowna bc
You are right the collapse of the un would be an international disaster. What I see coming is a global conflict, not over religion, but over the same issues the second world war was fought over, money and trade, the whole thing revolves around the preservation of power and wealth.
Saddam was the best thing for long term peace in the middle east, he had an iron grip on people who needed to be controlled. Originally he was put in power by the americans and the yanks supported him during the war with iraq, the problems developed later when they could no longer control him.
Someone said Bush and the boys are not evil, and that is correct, they are ignorant and arrogant and that is even worse.
 

iARTthere4iam

Electoral Member
Jul 23, 2006
533
3
18
Pointy Rocks
You are right the collapse of the un would be an international disaster. What I see coming is a global conflict, not over religion, but over the same issues the second world war was fought over, money and trade, the whole thing revolves around the preservation of power and wealth.
Saddam was the best thing for long term peace in the middle east, he had an iron grip on people who needed to be controlled. Originally he was put in power by the americans and the yanks supported him during the war with iraq, the problems developed later when they could no longer control him.
Someone said Bush and the boys are not evil, and that is correct, they are ignorant and arrogant and that is even worse.

You're right. Check out the US response to the Israeli bombing of Osrik nuclear reactor. Saddam was actually trying to acquire WMDs. With the help of the French they would have had it. But for the will of the Israelis they would have been nuclear.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
14
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California
In spite of what the US polls say Bush still hasn't changced his tune. He is still arrogant, blustery and now he has Chertoff talking aboout another strike by Al-Queda somewhere in the US. To me thats all boogeyman talk and it gives me reason to ask, "Just what the hell are they planning for us next?" The longer this goes on the more protracted to out come is going to be. The Iraqi government members don't want to see us leave. We are building some very nice villas for them using US monies and Middle East contractors. What a sweetheart deal that is.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Deserting Petraeus




By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, July 13, 2007; Page A17

"The key to turning [Anbar] around was the shift in allegiance by tribal sheiks. But the sheiks turned only after a prolonged offensive by American and Iraqi forces, starting in November, that put al-Qaeda groups on the run."
-- The New York Times, July 8




http://del.icio.us/post?v=4&partner...vember, that put al-Qaeda groups on the run.'

Finally, after four terribly long years, we know what works. Or what can work. A year ago, a confidential Marine intelligence report declared Anbar province (which comprises about a third of Iraq's territory) lost to al-Qaeda. Now, in what the Times's John Burns calls an "astonishing success," the tribal sheiks have joined our side and committed large numbers of fighters that, in concert with American and Iraqi forces, have largely driven out al-Qaeda and turned its former stronghold of Ramadi into one of most secure cities in Iraq.


It began with a U.S.-led offensive that killed or wounded more than 200 enemy fighters and captured 600. Most important was the follow-up. Not a retreat back to American bases but the setting up of small posts within the population that, together with the Iraqi national and tribal forces, have brought relative stability to Anbar.

The same has started happening in many of the Sunni areas around Baghdad, including Diyala province -- just a year ago considered as lost as Anbar -- where, for example, the Sunni insurgent 1920 Revolution Brigades has turned against al-Qaeda and joined the fight on the side of U.S. and Iraqi government forces.

We don't yet know if this strategy will work in mixed Sunni-Shiite neighborhoods. Nor can we be certain that this cooperation between essentially Sunni tribal forces and an essentially Shiite central government can endure. But what cannot be said -- although it is now heard daily in Washington -- is that the surge, which is shorthand for Gen. David Petraeus's new counterinsurgency strategy, has failed. The tragedy is that, just as a working strategy has been found, some Republicans in the Senate have lost heart and want to pull the plug.

It is understandable that Sens. Lugar, Voinovich, Domenici, Snowe and Warner may no longer trust President Bush's judgment when he tells them to wait until Petraeus reports in September. What is not understandable is the vote of no confidence they are passing on Petraeus. These are the same senators who sent him back to Iraq by an 81 to 0 vote to institute his new counterinsurgency strategy.
A month ago, Petraeus was asked whether we could still win in Iraq. The general, who had recently attended two memorial services for soldiers lost under his command, replied that if he thought he could not succeed he would not be risking the life of a single soldier.

Just this week, Petraeus said that the one thing he needs more than anything else is time. To cut off Petraeus's plan just as it is beginning -- the last surge troops arrived only last month -- on the assumption that we cannot succeed is to declare Petraeus either deluded or dishonorable. Deluded in that, as the best-positioned American in Baghdad, he still believes we can succeed. Or dishonorable in pretending to believe in victory and sending soldiers to die in what he really knows is an already failed strategy.


That's the logic of the wobbly Republicans' position. But rather than lay it on Petraeus, they prefer to lay it on Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and point out his government's inability to meet the required political "benchmarks." As a longtime critic of the Maliki government, I agree that it has proved itself incapable of passing laws important for long-term national reconciliation.


But first comes the short term. And right now we have the chance to continue to isolate al-Qaeda and, province by province, deny it the Sunni sea in which it swims. A year ago, it appeared that the only way to win back the Sunnis and neutralize the extremists was with great national compacts about oil and power sharing. But Anbar has unexpectedly shown that even without these constitutional settlements, the insurgency can be neutralized and al-Qaeda defeated at the local and provincial levels with a new and robust counterinsurgency strategy.


The costs are heartbreakingly high -- increased American casualties as the enemy is engaged and spectacular suicide bombings designed to terrify Iraqis and demoralize Americans. But the stakes are extremely high as well.

In the long run, agreements on oil, federalism and de-Baathification are crucial for stabilizing Iraq. But their absence at this moment is not a reason to give up in despair, now that we finally have a counterinsurgency strategy in place that is showing success against the one enemy -- al-Qaeda -- that both critics and supporters of the war maintain must be fought everywhere and at all cost.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Haliburton sure doesn't want to leave and neither does Black Water, the quiet other military.

These dire warnings seem to come along at times coincidental. It will be interesting to see if this turns out to be a real terrorist attack or just crying wolf.


In spite of what the US polls say Bush still hasn't changced his tune. He is still arrogant, blustery and now he has Chertoff talking aboout another strike by Al-Queda somewhere in the US. To me thats all boogeyman talk and it gives me reason to ask, "Just what the hell are they planning for us next?" The longer this goes on the more protracted to out come is going to be. The Iraqi government members don't want to see us leave. We are building some very nice villas for them using US monies and Middle East contractors. What a sweetheart deal that is.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
69
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Article published Jul 13, 2007
Total war, total victory


July 13, 2007

Diana West - This is a how-to column:
How to win in Iraq by changing course, dissing Democrats, ignoring the Iraq Study Group and altogether eradicating al Qaeda in Iraq, Iran in Iraq, not to mention Iran in Iran.

Sound crazy? I'll tell you what's crazy. The current strategy: Surge till Iraqis merge. Put our fighting men's lives and limbs at risk going house to booby-trapped house to create adequate security so that Iraq's factions will break out singing "Kumbaya" and decide to fight global warming, not each other.

It's incredible but true: Our ultimate military success, our national prestige, our vital stake in the "war on terror" rests on something over which we have no control — a post-surge reconciliation hoped for between, mainly, Shi'ites and Sunnis in Iraq.

Such a Hail Mary (Holy Allah?) strategy is rooted in the politically correct fallacy that Western-style democracy could, presto, flourish in an Islamic culture. Even as the White House has reluctantly lowered at least some expectations in this regard, it has stuck with the policy that all will come right in the end — or, at least, that it might. And that's enough to "stay the course" for several key reasons which fellow conservatives in particular are quick to cite.

One argument has to do with understandable concern over signaling defeat to jihadis everywhere, including al Qaeda in Iraq. Certainly, the Democrats' withdrawal plans run up the white flag, as do breakaway Republican plans to resurrect the Iraq Study Group's pee-yoo pointers. So forget them. Ditto the ISG, which suggests, for example, that the terrorist likes of Iran and Syria will help with Iraq (how delusional can you get?), and that the United Nations Security Council (rivals Russia and China) will help with Iran.

But these aren't our only choices. We may be stuck in an intellectual tidal cycle — tide in (surge), tide out (withdraw) — but there's a big wide ocean of answers out there. First, we need to ask new questions. For example: When will it become clear that even if everything goes as planned in Iraq (or doesn't), the United States will only have succeeded in securing a Hezbollah-supporting, Shi'ite-majority state that is a natural ally of Iran? And how great is that for America's national security?

Not so great. But it's a shockingly likely outcome. This realization should make us question whether securing Iraq, a potential client-state of Iran, is really key to American national security. In fact, it is Iran's terror exports to the entire Middle East and beyond, along with its genocidal nuclear ambitions, that threaten us, not Iraq's domestic violence. If we want to quell global jihad — and we must — it is Iran that should become the target for our military minds, not Iraq. Far from handing jihadists a win, this new course, which would likely rely more on Air Force and Navy than ground troops, would put them on the defensive.

At this point, my conservative friends will remind me that we must destroy al Qaeda in Iraq. And I couldn't agree more. So let's destroy al Qaeda in Iraq — a neat name for an amorphous network — and any other threats including Iranian-supported Iraqi Shi'ite forces. Sharon Behn of The Washington Times recently asked Command Sgt. Maj. Jeff Mellinger why the world's most powerful army hadn't yet accomplished this mission. He replied: "We could absolutely crush every one of them, but would you be happy with what is left?"

He's referring to the catastrophic destruction that is, and has always been, the price of total victory. It's something that never makes anyone "happy," but previous generations have found it necessary. Not ours. Postmodern man prefers a kind of limited warfare, fighting with one hand tied behind his back as a matter of choice — a moral choice that lends even a superpower the humanizing aura of victimhood.

Presumably, our military could destroy Iraqi terror-towns and strongholds with a well-guided aerial bombing campaign, and thus go a long way toward bringing this whole war to an end; instead, we opt to send our young men to fight precisely as the terrorist wants them to fight — in booby-trapped towns, among duplicitous peoples. Lately, we even argue that these same soldiers should stay in those towns among those peoples to prevent the "bloodletting" to follow an American exit. But for how long? One year? Ten years? Until Iraqis learn to sing "Kumbaya?"

Maybe until we, as a society, learn how to prize total victory over limited war.



 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
The shipment of a handcuffed military into a non-war zone without the initial leadership of a government already in place in Iraq was a no-win situation.

It will take decades of reports and commentary to unravel the truth - what we have been denied.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
14
18
California
With today's news of the karl Rove de[parture at the end of this month I think the Attorney General should be out job hunting too. It's only a matter of time before all of the covers are jerked off those in bed with Cheney. I'll bet Rove shows up in Texas politics or working for a Bush dominated oil industry giant. I do hope the investigations into his activities while he occupied this job in the White House will continue aggressivly too.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
How will Bush remember 'anything' now. Rove must have written down all the instructions he will
need for the next year and a half, as he has done to the present.
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
14
18
California
talloola you bring up a very valid point. Here is the presdent murdering the English language at the podium and he has spoken this tongue for years. Think about how mauch worse it may get when the number one speech checker leaves? And that is only fpr the correct us of the language. If the truth were known the buffoon count inside the White House is astounding. There are egal advisors who are quietly paving the way with bad legal advice for some who may occupy the old Webster Hubbel cell out at the Federal joint in Lompoc, CA. To quote the Co-Chairs of the Judiciary Committee, "I don't know who is giving out the advice but if I were the Dean of their Law School I'd be keeping a low profile."
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
I think the American people would drag him out to the street and lynch him if he did it without presenting a clear and present danger .

Bah, they'll make the charge and as usual, at the end of his term he'll quit to save his people the light of an investigation. They in turn will reward him handsomely for a job well done. You know, like they did with tricky Dick.

And the American people will watch it on Fox or CNN and rage from their armchairs right up until something good comes on tv.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
talloola you bring up a very valid point. Here is the presdent murdering the English language at the podium and he has spoken this tongue for years. Think about how mauch worse it may get when the number one speech checker leaves? And that is only fpr the correct us of the language. If the truth were known the buffoon count inside the White House is astounding. There are egal advisors who are quietly paving the way with bad legal advice for some who may occupy the old Webster Hubbel cell out at the Federal joint in Lompoc, CA. To quote the Co-Chairs of the Judiciary Committee, "I don't know who is giving out the advice but if I were the Dean of their Law School I'd be keeping a low profile."

'Here here', what a complete embarrassment to his country, but then again, the people re elected him, so, Rove was so good, he suckered them in a second time, irrespective of how bush constantly
bungled his speeches, and made a fool of himself.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Not sure how this slipped past everyone's attention.

 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
37
48
Great Satan
Bah, they'll make the charge and as usual, at the end of his term he'll quit to save his people the light of an investigation. They in turn will reward him handsomely for a job well done. You know, like they did with tricky Dick.

And the American people will watch it on Fox or CNN and rage from their armchairs right up until something good comes on tv.

Just like everyone else...
 

normbc9

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2006
483
14
18
California
I just signed off a south American website that has their journalist in DC stating that Karl Rove made comments last week at a social gathering that he thinks the effectiveness of this administration is now past being contributory to any Republican future and he wants to be a positive part of the Republican future and he can't do it with the Bush anchor hanging around his neck. Maybe it was time to pull out.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Just like everyone else...

Maybe that's the problem with America, everyone isn't an American stereotype dreaming the American dream. There is actually a whole world going on just outside the borders and some of it doesn't need America to fix it.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
37
48
Great Satan
Maybe that's the problem with America, everyone isn't an American stereotype dreaming the American dream. There is actually a whole world going on just outside the borders and some of it doesn't need America to fix it.

Somehow, I doubt that complacency and nonchalance is solely the purview of Americans. But if it makes some people outside of these borders you speak of, sleep better at night to think so, then hey, maybe that doesn't need fixing. They are at least outside of the borders and thats the first big step in making America better.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Somehow, I doubt that complacency and nonchalance is solely the purview of Americans. But if it makes some people outside of these borders you speak of, sleep better at night to think so, then hey, maybe that doesn't need fixing. They are at least outside of the borders and thats the first big step in making America better.

Oh I think it makes them do all sorts of great things. Once you realize that the fence you erect to protect your also imprisons you, you begin to understand that it's better to be part of the community then apart from it.

I suspect you have a few sleepless nights coming yourself as Americans get off the jingoist bandwagon as they dump Bush (is that the I word?) and swing towards a more moderate/liberal style of government.