If You Hate Ladies & Are Scared of Muslims, You'll Love North Carolina

[PoliticalNick]

Let's use your personal moral standards and forget about mine. According to your personal moral standards do you hold the opinion that abortions performed for the sole purpose of convenience or sex selection are legitimate.

So now we will use you as a reference point. What say you?

From my reference point my decision is mine and your decision is yours and everyone else has their own decision. I would never choose abortion as an option for myself but would also never consider telling anyone else how to make their choice and what criteria they should use. Why do you not understand that?

 

[BaalsTears]

From my reference point my decision is mine and your decision is yours and everyone else has their own decision. I would never choose abortion as an option for myself but would also never consider telling anyone else how to make their choice and what criteria they should use. Why do you not understand that?

I know your view is yours, but the subject is not taboo. I like exploring questions. Don't you like to do that too as an intellectual exercise?

I will respectfully ask once more...according to your moral standard is an abortion performed solely for the purpose of convenience or sex selection legitimate in your view?

 

[PoliticalNick]

I know your view is yours, but the subject is not taboo. I like exploring questions. Don't you like to do that too as an intellectual exercise?

I will respectfully ask once more...according to your moral standard is an abortion performed solely for the purpose of convenience or sex selection legitimate in your view?

I have already stated many times in this thread and others on the subject I would never opt for an abortion unless there was a medical necessity. That is where my opinion ends because my moral standard is not the same as any else's. What my moral standard does require is that I do not judge others or presume to know why they would make any decision so I cannot comment on their choices or the criteria they use to reach that decision. The biggest problem with the entire debate on this subject is people presuming to know what is best for others or why they would make the choice they do. It is a personal choice involving the physical, mental & emotional well-being of a woman and to assume anybody else should have a say in it is ludicrous at best and mostly just oppression of women. The attitude that Gerry and others bring is demeaning to all women as it makes them nothing more than baby-factories without any rights or control over their own health or bodies.

 

[captain morgan]

I have already stated many times in this thread and others on the subject I would never opt for an abortion unless there was a medical necessity. That is where my opinion ends because my moral standard is not the same as any else's. What my moral standard does require is that I do not judge others or presume to know why they would make any decision so I cannot comment on their choices or the criteria they use to reach that decision. The biggest problem with the entire debate on this subject is people presuming to know what is best for others or why they would make the choice they do. It is a personal choice involving the physical, mental & emotional well-being of a woman and to assume anybody else should have a say in it is ludicrous at best and mostly just oppression of women. The attitude that Gerry and others bring is demeaning to all women as it makes them nothing more than baby-factories without any rights or control over their own health or bodies.

Slippery slope here Nick.

Individuality in terms of moral/ethical code is a laudable position, however, as a society we have established a set or norms in terms of the collective moral code. Strong examples are rape or murder.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Slippery slope here Nick.

Individuality in terms of moral/ethical code is a laudable position, however, as a society we have established a set or norms in terms of the collective moral code. Strong examples are rape or murder.

I don't think it is the slippery slope at all. There is a big difference between a criminal action that affects the physical well-being of others and the right to direct your own personal health. As I see it the anti crowd want to keep women oppressed and subservient as baby machines and the way they choose to do this is to criminalize a woman's decision about her own well-being and health by attempting to make an unborn fetus(which is at best a parasite by definition) the same as living, breathing human and calling it murder or other inflammatory names.

I would also remind you that while we as a society have mostly agreed upon certain restrictions in behavior those views are not shared by everybody in our society and there are completely different 'norms' in other societies that are accepted and agreed upon.

 

[BaalsTears]

I have already stated many times in this thread and others on the subject I would never opt for an abortion unless there was a medical necessity. That is where my opinion ends because my moral standard is not the same as any else's. What my moral standard does require is that I do not judge others or presume to know why they would make any decision so I cannot comment on their choices or the criteria they use to reach that decision. The biggest problem with the entire debate on this subject is people presuming to know what is best for others or why they would make the choice they do. It is a personal choice involving the physical, mental & emotional well-being of a woman and to assume anybody else should have a say in it is ludicrous at best and mostly just oppression of women. The attitude that Gerry and others bring is demeaning to all women as it makes them nothing more than baby-factories without any rights or control over their own health or bodies.

I do not sit in judgment of any human being on this question. I have tried to reach out to you in order to explore the issue from an intellectual and nonemotional standpoint.

I guess some subjects are taboo, and that intellectual inquiry must cease when a nonpermitted subject is addressed. That's a shame.

I won't try to ever discuss a matter of intellectual inquiry with you again. I apologize for having tried to reach out to you.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I do not sit in judgment of any human being on this question. I have tried to reach out to you in order to explore the issue from an intellectual and nonemotional standpoint.

I guess some subjects are taboo, and that intellectual inquiry must cease when a nonpermitted subject is addressed. That's a shame.

I won't try to ever discuss a matter of intellectual inquiry with you again. I apologize for having tried to reach out to you.

It is you that seems to lack the intellectual acumen to understand my position so here it is again one last time....

I personally wouldn't choose a termination. I also wouldn't presume to offer any opinion on another's decision or why they would make it.

There is no sense of taboo here. I gladly discuss the issue and have actually posted more in this thread than any other and I believe made my position quite clear. You seem to be wanting to illicit a particular response to a hypothetical from me and I sense you are frustrated because you cannot get the answer you seek. That is your issue to deal with, not mine.

 

[BaalsTears]

I personally wouldn't choose a termination. I also wouldn't presume to offer any opinion on another's decision or why they would make it.

I also understand that you won't express an opinion about another person's reason for terminating a pregnancy. From that I infer you are willing to accept any rationale as moral justification for abortion.

Among existing rationales for abortion are convenience and sex selection. Since you will accept any rationale, and these two reasons are indeed rationales, you must as a matter of logic find them acceptable.

 

[Sal]

In the USA a significant portion of abortions are performed solely for convenience and as a form of contraception for people who are too lazy or too stupid to use contraceptives.

Is abortion for convenience ok with you folks?

I also understand that you won't express an opinion about another person's reason for terminating a pregnancy. From that I infer you are willing to accept any rationale as moral justification for abortion.

Among existing rationales for abortion are convenience and sex selection. Since you will accept any rationale, and these two reasons are indeed rationales, you must as a matter of logic find them acceptable.

what about your conclusions...a significant portion you say...you appear to believe you know the heart, soul and circumstances of many people in the US

Gotta link?

the catholic church is against chemical birth control or pretty much anything other than abstinence or the old hope it works rhythm method...they like to hang out in bedrooms and impose rules ... if you are Catholic you already know that.

As for supporting single mums, just hang around here for a bit and listen to all of the opinions about those lazy asses on government assistance... In fact I do believe you and I had such a discussion about lower income people. your attitude was such.

I'm Catholic.. Not really been a practising one for a long time.

I have zero problems with OTC contraception.

Actually I'm angry that they have never developed a rewards program on the retail side... Cheap b*stards

I don't know what OTC contraception is. Speak to some heavy duty Catholics, head over to the church...you will find both extremes...very liberal to very conservative and everything in between... hit a baptist church or any right wing Christian church... You must know people who happily embrace all of the above without needing links unless you don't socialize much. Hell just party talk will give you a great indication about how strong some people feel about all of those issues.

 

[BaalsTears]

what about your conclusions...a significant portion you say...you appear to believe you know the heart, soul and circumstances of many people in the US



the catholic church is against chemical birth control or pretty much anything other than abstinence or the old hope it works rhythm method...they like to hang out in bedrooms and impose rules ... if you are Catholic you already know that.

As for supporting single mums, just hang around here for a bit and listen to all of the opinions about those lazy asses on government assistance... In fact I do believe you and I had such a discussion about lower income people. your attitude was such.

I don't know what OTC contraception is. Speak to some heavy duty Catholics, head over to the church...you will find both extremes...very liberal to very conservative and everything in between... hit a baptist church or any right wing Christian church... You must know people who happily embrace all of the above without needing links unless you don't socialize much. Hell just party talk will give you a great indication about how strong some people feel about all of those issues.

I have posed an intellectual and abstract question for people to think about and address if they want. Since the question is abstract it doesn't relate to any specific person.

I'm just amazed that people aren't able to discuss abstract morality in the context of abortion.

What I have noted is a reluctance to engage.

 

[JLM]

I also understand that you won't express an opinion about another person's reason for terminating a pregnancy. From that I infer you are willing to accept any rationale as moral justification for abortion.

Among existing rationales for abortion are convenience and sex selection. Since you will accept any rationale, and these two reasons are indeed rationales, you must as a matter of logic find them acceptable.

I have a question for you- "Is it necessary for every person to take a stand on every issue"?

 

[Sal]

I have posed an intellectual and abstract question for people to think about and address if they want. Since the question is abstract it doesn't relate to any specific person.

I'm just amazed that people aren't able to discuss abstract morality in the context of abortion.

What I have noted is a reluctance to engage.

what's to engage, you've made your opinion quite clear have you not? people who have abortions are stupid and lazy ... someone else here says if you support abortion you are an idiot....

I have been called a stupid c unt for my opinion...

so, how is an intellectual discussion possible when one has already revealed the playing cards...why engage in a discussion that is so personal for some that they can not rationally discuss it...

thus it is not abstract at all...it is a highly volatile topic... since you are new to the forum you would not understandably know that

nothing to be amazed at...we here know clearly the lines that people stand behind on the issue and you have already stepped behind one of them

 

[gerryh]

I have a question for you- "Is it necessary for every person to take a stand on every issue"?

when it comes to the dismemberment and murder of thousands of children every year, "not taking a stand" is the same as supporting said murder. Silence is support.

 

[BaalsTears]

I have a question for you- "Is it necessary for every person to take a stand on every issue"?

I raised an issue and have replied only to the four members of CC who responded to the original post. People can avoid the issue by not responding to me.

No abortion supporter wants to admit publicly that they favor abortions for convenience or sex selection because everyone recognizes the depravity of such a position.

I find that approach to be disappointing. But hey, that's just me.

 

[captain morgan]

the catholic church is against chemical birth control or pretty much anything other than abstinence or the old hope it works rhythm method...

That's their prerogative, is it not?

they like to hang out in bedrooms and impose rules ... if you are Catholic you already know that.

Yeah - They come to my place all the time to hang-out imposing rules... But they do stay for the waffles.

They wear the striped referee jerseys, throw flags and announce the infraction into a loud speaker.. It's all official like

As for supporting single mums, just hang around here for a bit and listen to all of the opinions about those lazy asses on government assistance... In fact I do believe you and I had such a discussion about lower income people. your attitude was such.

You are not normally one to leverage the drama like this Sal.

On the single parent thing, I'm all for a hand-up, but the hand outs are non-functional... In fact, if I recall correctly, one of my points was that more people should be spending the pittance of money on a few condoms and eliminate the issue altogether - it's a whole 25 or 50 cents per condom.

That said, get rid of the implication that if only the Catholics approved of rubbers, we wouldn't have any single moms living in poverty

I don't know what OTC contraception is.

Over The Counter

Speak to some heavy duty Catholics, head over to the church...you will find both extremes...very liberal to very conservative and everything in between... hit a baptist church or any right wing Christian church... You must know people who happily embrace all of the above without needing links unless you don't socialize much. Hell just party talk will give you a great indication about how strong some people feel about all of those issues.

Speak to some heavy duty stockbrokers, tall people, midgets or folks with blue eyes and you might observe all those extremes as well.

If your going to make strong statements like this:

often the people who are against abortion are also against birth control

and social assistance for single mums

You had better be prepared to back it up with something other than personal observations

 

[JLM]

when it comes to the dismemberment and murder of thousands of children every year, "not taking a stand" is the same as supporting said murder. Silence is support.

On that particular matter I'm inclined to agree with you, but I'm still wondering if it isn't presumptuous to expect everyone else to have the same opinion.

I raised an issue and have replied only to the four members of CC who responded to the original post. People can avoid the issue by not responding to me.

No abortion supporter wants to admit publicly that they favor abortions for convenience or sex selection because everyone recognizes the depravity of such a position.

I find that approach to be disappointing. But hey, that's just me.

I know what you mean, but hey, you can't run the world!

 

[gerryh]

On that particular matter I'm inclined to agree with you, but I'm still wondering if it isn't presumptuous to expect everyone else to have the same opinion.

You mean the opinion that it's ok to kill children? Ya, I guess it's ok to have that opinion.........if you're Clifford Olson.

 

[BaalsTears]

On that particular matter I'm inclined to agree with you, but I'm still wondering if it isn't presumptuous to expect everyone else to have the same opinion.



I know what you mean, but hey, you can't run the world!

These days only my mind is able to wander the world in curiousity. Sometimes it comes to a dead end when it reaches a subject that can't be discussed.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I also understand that you won't express an opinion about another person's reason for terminating a pregnancy. From that I infer you are willing to accept any rationale as moral justification for abortion.

Among existing rationales for abortion are convenience and sex selection. Since you will accept any rationale, and these two reasons are indeed rationales, you must as a matter of logic find them acceptable.

Are you really that stupid or are you just an a$$hole? I do not accept any reason for abortion other than medical necessity. What others accept is their business, not mine. Unlike others here I do not presume or assume to have omnipotent powers and knowledge of the inner workings of other people's minds nor do I attempt to control those minds or the bodies they reside within. Your continual attempts to draw others into a hypothetical regarding choices made by someone else belies your true feeling on the subject. The subject is not one of maybes or mights, it is one of the most personal nature and decisions are made for various reasons ONLY when the specific situation arises. You should at least first try to understand that pro-choice does not automatically mean pro-abortion. Unfortunately anti-abortion does automatically include anti-choice which is why I take the stance I do on this issue.

 

[Sal]

That's their prerogative, is it not?

absolutely it is

Yeah - They come to my place all the time to hang-out imposing rules... But they do stay for the waffles.

They wear the striped referee jerseys, throw flags and announce the infraction into a loud speaker.. It's all official like

that made me laugh out loud.

You are not normally one to leverage the drama like this Sal.

yeah you are right...I just get angry with the whole single mum thing and I have worked in not for profit organizations so I have seen first hand young young girls with babies in strollers no food, poor clothing, OMG.... Just look at that baby and look at those little eyes and see that young mum is over whelmed and completely unable to cope with her situation and people won't deal with that reality...

On the single parent thing, I'm all for a hand-up, but the hand outs are non-functional... In fact, if I recall correctly, one of my points was that more people should be spending the pittance of money on a few condoms and eliminate the issue altogether - it's a whole 25 or 50 cents per condom.

but that is so full of control... you don't get it... you simply don't get it...there is a live baby there with parents who can't even look after themselves... our system does not have the NET to catch those babies to help those babies to protect those babies... we can't do it...and people want to spend LESS on social services... how can someone of your intellect not connect the dots... I don't get how you can not SEE the reality of what happens to those kids? It's real...it makes me emotional because I see it.