Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God
How about to set an example so that other people will be deterred?
Summer said:
How about to set an example so that other people will be deterred?
I would rather live my life as if there is a God
- Thread starter iamcanadian
- Start date
RE: I would rather live m
But it doesn't deter others any more than life in prison with no parole would.
But it doesn't deter others any more than life in prison with no parole would.
for you IAC:
"Capital Punishment and Homicide
Sociological Realities and Econometric Illusions
Skeptical Enquirer Magazine, July 2004
Does executing murderers cut the homicide rate or not? Comparative studies show there is no effect. Econometric models, in contrast, show a mixture of results. Why the difference? And which is the more reliable method?
By Ted Goertzel
"
Conclusion:
"It is time to abandon the illusion that mathematics can convert the real world into the mythical land of Ceteris Paribus. Social science can provide valid and reliable results with methods that present the data with as little statistical manipulation as possible and interpret it in light of the best qualitative information available. The value of this research is shown by its success in demonstrating that capital punishment has not deterred homicide. "
read entire article here: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=1176
"Capital Punishment and Homicide
Sociological Realities and Econometric Illusions
Skeptical Enquirer Magazine, July 2004
Does executing murderers cut the homicide rate or not? Comparative studies show there is no effect. Econometric models, in contrast, show a mixture of results. Why the difference? And which is the more reliable method?
By Ted Goertzel
"
Conclusion:
"It is time to abandon the illusion that mathematics can convert the real world into the mythical land of Ceteris Paribus. Social science can provide valid and reliable results with methods that present the data with as little statistical manipulation as possible and interpret it in light of the best qualitative information available. The value of this research is shown by its success in demonstrating that capital punishment has not deterred homicide. "
read entire article here: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=1176
Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God
It is neither an example or a DETERENT. Studies /research has shown this. That is an outmoded theory.
IAC .......not sure what you are trying to get at here. Are you discussing the value of "God" /religion in your life or the consequences of destructive human conduct. ??? Are you implying that the "laws" for each is the same in some way?? :? 8O :?
iamcanadian said:
It is neither an example or a DETERENT. Studies /research has shown this. That is an outmoded theory.
IAC .......not sure what you are trying to get at here. Are you discussing the value of "God" /religion in your life or the consequences of destructive human conduct. ??? Are you implying that the "laws" for each is the same in some way?? :? 8O :?
I don't believe that nobody will be detered.
If only one person is detered is this not a better use of the person's life being punished, than locking them up for life which is a complete waste of that life too, plus waste of money, and resources that would otherwise serve to defend the life of another person?
If the person is never going to be released they never serve any purpose (they are as good as dead to the outside world).
I am not trying to get anywhere. We are having a conversation.
If only one person is detered is this not a better use of the person's life being punished, than locking them up for life which is a complete waste of that life too, plus waste of money, and resources that would otherwise serve to defend the life of another person?
If the person is never going to be released they never serve any purpose (they are as good as dead to the outside world).
I am not trying to get anywhere. We are having a conversation.
by who's definition of "purpose" are you saying a person locked up for life serves none?
people locked up can serve "purposes", they are just limited in what avenues are available to them (hence why it is called incarceration).
people locked up can serve "purposes", they are just limited in what avenues are available to them (hence why it is called incarceration).
The only purpose they would serve locked up for life without parole is to provide employment to jail workers and consume public resources that could be spent elsewhere.
If an excecution of that person detered just one person (which is most certaily to happen), this would be similar to killing in defence of another.
If an excecution of that person detered just one person (which is most certaily to happen), this would be similar to killing in defence of another.
IAC, did you look at the site i provided? it will show you stats for just how ineffective capital punishment is as a deterent.
I think there are statistics that go both ways.
But look at it as possibly saving just one life by a deterent.
Can you agree with me that there is a chance that it could deter just one person?
But look at it as possibly saving just one life by a deterent.
Can you agree with me that there is a chance that it could deter just one person?
RE: I would rather live m
Sure, as long as you can agree that NOT having capital punishment could result in saving the life of at least one innocent person wrongly convicted.
So why do I get the impression that the one innocent person wrongly convicted is not going to matter as much to you as the one other person - no more innocent - whose life might be saved by having capital punishment as a "deterrent"?
Sure, as long as you can agree that NOT having capital punishment could result in saving the life of at least one innocent person wrongly convicted.
So why do I get the impression that the one innocent person wrongly convicted is not going to matter as much to you as the one other person - no more innocent - whose life might be saved by having capital punishment as a "deterrent"?
Funny thing this...
I remember debating the topic of capital punishment some years ago, in some university course, or another, and while at the time, I took the position of pro-capital punishment, I distinctly remember that when it was abolished in 1976, polls suggested that the majority of Canadians were for keeping capital punishment on the books...and that it was due to pressure from church-backed lobby groups, that led to its eventual demise...
I've since changed my view on capital punishment after witnessing the injustices done to David Milgaard and others...
Funny that...
I remember debating the topic of capital punishment some years ago, in some university course, or another, and while at the time, I took the position of pro-capital punishment, I distinctly remember that when it was abolished in 1976, polls suggested that the majority of Canadians were for keeping capital punishment on the books...and that it was due to pressure from church-backed lobby groups, that led to its eventual demise...
I've since changed my view on capital punishment after witnessing the injustices done to David Milgaard and others...
Funny that...
Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God
You think so? You *think* so? Put up a reference kiddo, or you're just making stuff up to support your position.
iamcanadian said:
You think so? You *think* so? Put up a reference kiddo, or you're just making stuff up to support your position.
Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God
Hmmm...third time lucky?
The thread you put up seems to deal with crime overall. Not specifically treason, murder of a public official or 1st degree murder. Which are the basis of most crimes that would lead to a possible execution.
I never said which way I lean on this issue. There are strong arguments on both sides.It may actually surprise some that I am for capital punishment. When it is clearly proven in cases of mass murder. Providing all avenues of appeals have run their course.( Charlie Manson, Clifford Olson, Ted Bundy, Paul Bernardo...to name a few.) I don't see how it serves society to prolong the lives of individuals who have proven their complete lack of respect for society or their fellow human beings. Other than that I don't see a lot of need execute.
I think it would be far better and more of a deterent for the victims' and families of a murderer, rapist, arsonist, etc ...if the all properties and a percentage of future earnings by the criminal were turned over to the victims. It isn't much comfort for the family, but the criminal action taken is having a consequence that reminds the perp everyday for the rest of his life.
zenfisher said:
Hmmm...third time lucky?
The thread you put up seems to deal with crime overall. Not specifically treason, murder of a public official or 1st degree murder. Which are the basis of most crimes that would lead to a possible execution.
I never said which way I lean on this issue. There are strong arguments on both sides.It may actually surprise some that I am for capital punishment. When it is clearly proven in cases of mass murder. Providing all avenues of appeals have run their course.( Charlie Manson, Clifford Olson, Ted Bundy, Paul Bernardo...to name a few.) I don't see how it serves society to prolong the lives of individuals who have proven their complete lack of respect for society or their fellow human beings. Other than that I don't see a lot of need execute.
I think it would be far better and more of a deterent for the victims' and families of a murderer, rapist, arsonist, etc ...if the all properties and a percentage of future earnings by the criminal were turned over to the victims. It isn't much comfort for the family, but the criminal action taken is having a consequence that reminds the perp everyday for the rest of his life.
has anybody considered that rather than treat the "criminal" as "useless", they allow the person the opportunity to repay in some way for his/her crime?
consider for example the fact that labs pay people to be human guinea-pigs for new drugs. could not the offer to be a part of such things be extended to inmates? (we could not force it, explicidly or implicidly, but allowing avenues for criminals to grow, expand, contribute, learn is of benefit to both the criminal and society)
How we treat those we view as "the lowest", "the worst", "the enemy", etc is the greatest reflection of who we are. Killing another after the fact does not undo the original act, it does nothing but serve petty revenge. Are you saying man is no better than a petty vengeful creature?
consider for example the fact that labs pay people to be human guinea-pigs for new drugs. could not the offer to be a part of such things be extended to inmates? (we could not force it, explicidly or implicidly, but allowing avenues for criminals to grow, expand, contribute, learn is of benefit to both the criminal and society)
How we treat those we view as "the lowest", "the worst", "the enemy", etc is the greatest reflection of who we are. Killing another after the fact does not undo the original act, it does nothing but serve petty revenge. Are you saying man is no better than a petty vengeful creature?
partially, but i don't draw a line where on one side the act is deserving of death and the other side is not.
i think we can learn quite a bit from those that commit the most extreme crimes. I think the bundys, bernardos, etc are far more valuable alive than dead.
i think we can learn quite a bit from those that commit the most extreme crimes. I think the bundys, bernardos, etc are far more valuable alive than dead.