I would rather live my life as if there is a God

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: I would rather live m

Is there a god? It's not relevent. If there is, he'll/she'll judge me. If there isn't, I'll just die. Am I limited by consequences? No. Do I go around doing bad things? No. Why? Instead of asking stupid questions, I looked around at the natural order of the way things work on earth. Much of this was aided by mushrooms and marijuana. I studied nature, sociology, and physics, constantly looking for the natural rules that define the universe, and the functioning systems that consist within it. By studying the systems around me, I was able to pinpoint the negatives and the positives that make or break these systems. I came to the conclusion that things that disrupt the systems around us, are the evils, as they are usually accompanied with real world consequences. The things that balance the systems, are good. When the subsystems on the Earth are balanced, the Earth is Eaden. When we abuse these systems and disrupt them, we get deserts, bad weather, Earthquakes, and volcanos, including the death and mayham that come with them. Basically, I decided that I wouldn't do anything to disrupt these systems because I don't want to live in hell. By default, I just act in good conscience or what could be considered good conscience. The only problem is that we've disrupted a whole bunch of systems and damned ourselves to hell. After we experience hell, then we'll be able to work back to Eden. The tribulation in the bible pretty much explains what happens when a bunch of systems simultaneousely collapse, and it's going to happen in within the decade without doubt. After we experience hell, the survivors will change things so that things maintain balance. By making this the life strategy and our main focus, we will never see hell again, as people would understand what leads society there and avoid it. Atleast for as long as everyone believes the history we record.

interesting points. One that I (personally) don't buy into is the God and Judge thing. Makes no rational sense. What DOES make sense is that we have a built in barometer about cause and effect.......and learn through experience. (as a rule) <about mistakes and regret/remorse etc> On the average , people follow the "golden rule".....as their basic principle of ethic. But as you point out , many systems are totally out of whack. What "hell" it will take for the humanoid to LEARN.......?? Don't know. As no one can guarentee that the learning will go on generation to generation. As a rule the humanoid is a very stubborn biological unit ......and has a high resistance to change .......even with catastrophic events.......self inflicted or otherwise. Memories fade.......and the human "weaknessess of destruction " will resurface. Just as energies seeks their own balance......so does the constructive/destructive.

for some current examples: what has the human learned about the devestation /destruction of war??? Was it enough to prevent starting some.......and then basing it on LIES??

another is Katrina ......and the devestating power of nature itself.....(let alone what might have caused such a severe 'cane) ...What has the human learned from THAT experience??? And these are just two that come to mind.





just some ramblings this fine winter evening.....

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: I would rather live m

That's the whole point of the tribulation, those who don't change are wiped off the earth in one way or another. I don't believe we'll have any more than 600million people tops, left on earth within 10 years. This single event will be so large that it will touch every person on earth, everyone will experience hell on earth, and it won't be soon forgotten. But, one day I expect that it will be forgotten and history will repeat. Even if people do forget what happened, the science and understanding of how it went bad will never be lossed. The answer is simple, look at my signature.

 

[the caracal kid]

but why are you so convinced of a cataclysm?

also, have you studied systems theory?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

but why are you so convinced of a cataclysm?

also, have you studied systems theory?

for YT........not "convinced" of anything........except examining /studying PATTERNS /TRENDS /CYCLES. There is a rhythm to the "behaviors". Just as there is a rhythm to nature. Does not imply that it stays the same or reverts to a former state.

So it comes down to which are the variables and which are the constants?? and how do they interact with each other. How do they shape each other?? Even though the humanoid has a large dose of resistance he /she continues to be molded by events, external and self created.......and this includes the weather patterns. Adapatation is the key. Survival of the fittest and all that applies too. (more ramblings......;-)

Take the weather patterns. Don't know about anywhere else.....but where I live......they have changed. The norm used to be monsoons from Oct end.......off and on until March and April. Have not had any rain at all this fall. (except perhaps for an evening or two) Not as cold as one might expect either. Less snow in Whistler ( a primary example) and hardly any skiing....... and this is a DRASTIC change. Not nec great for a ski resort ) Of course tourism has been gravely affected by the "state of war " on this planet. (a state that was created by choice and electively..........without regard to how it would affect the rest of the world let alone the county they warred on ) So people are "adapting".

just some examples of change.....something that is a dynamic part of our lives. So we have a choice. Be proactive, constructive------or "reactive" and destructive.

 

[the caracal kid]

yes, humanity needs to be proactive. The ecosystem is very dyanmic though and as such can respond well to inflicted changes. This is not to suggest we as humans should just do as we please though. As gaia theory says, the world is alive. We are a part of that life and need to respect and care for her. Still, even without human interferance the dynamics of the ecosystem would bring fluctuations and the dynamic non-equalibrium nature of the earth would give it the ability to respond and survive changes.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

yes, humanity needs to be proactive. The ecosystem is very dyanmic though and as such can respond well to inflicted changes. This is not to suggest we as humans should just do as we please though. As gaia theory says, the world is alive. We are a part of that life and need to respect and care for her. Still, even without human interferance the dynamics of the ecosystem would bring fluctuations and the dynamic non-equalibrium nature of the earth would give it the ability to respond and survive changes.

c.kid: excellent post. :thumbleft: Thanks. In fact one can say the entire universe is DYNAMIC and in a constant state of flux. and yes.......the world/universe we live in is "ALIVE." as in energy, dynamics, change, etc. Nothing is static.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I've asked Christians at times what may have happened to the gods that had come before, and found most to be quite elusive around this topic.

So I'll ask my questions here:

What happened to the thousands of gods that existed before the Hebrew people devised their god, the surrogate father of Christianity?

Were they nothing but myth, and if so, what rationale have Christians constructed to set their belief apart from these myths?

Did the god of Abraham kill all the lesser gods, and if this what is believed, why is there no mention of this epic battle in the bible?

Why is it that the mythical gods of the pagans later became the devils of the Christians?

If the bible is to be taken as authoritative, what then shall we take of the scriptures of other religions that predate the Old Testament by more than six centuries? Have they been shown to be false by the Christian Orthodoxy? If so, how has this been accomplished, when the Christians cannot even show their bible to be true?

I have more questions than this, of course, but I'd like answers to these before I proceed with my inquiry.

 

[iamcanadian]

God is not an entity. It is a concept to guide and control inherent human behaviour which tends towards evil. Becase to be evil in life is easier and less work than to be good and generally more profitable/presonally gratifying.

To prevent mankind from destroying itself we need something in the realm of faith in something good, to overcomme the reality of the easy advancement gotten from acting bad and unethically.

Rules of ethics alone are not enough, because men will find ways of justify just about any behaviour by twisting and bending rules.

 

[the caracal kid]

if it is good to live, then i would say that humanity tends to lean towards good and not evil. besides, good and evil are just constructs for what from one's perspective is desirable or undesirable. to that end, there is no such thing as good or evil.

 

[Reverend Blair]

To prevent mankind from destroying itself we need something in the realm of faith in something good, to overcomme the reality of the easy advancement found from acting bad.

To prevent mankind from destroying itself, we need to listen to scientific fact. That has nothing to do with religion, in fact religion is a negative influence on it.

 

[Laika]

RE: I would rather live m

The bible seems to take the existence of other gods for granted. "Thou shalt have no other gods above me". The custom used to be to worship the local deities, but when the Hebrews started practicing monotheism their god told them to give up the other gods and worship him alone and when he saved them from...the egyptians? i forget...they agreed to his covenant, but they didn't keep their word. When Moses came down from the mountain, he found them worshipping the old traditional gods.

To answer your question, I don't know what happened to the other gods...forgotten, eliminated by warfare, etc. But the bible does acknowledge that there were other gods at one time.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

To prevent mankind from destroying itself we need something in the realm of faith in something good, to overcomme the reality of the easy advancement found from acting bad.

To prevent mankind from destroying itself, we need to listen to scientific fact. That has nothing to do with religion, in fact religion is a negative influence on it.

agree. There are many people who have been brought up in a non religious household and have grown up to be decent caring, humanitarian , constructive human beings who live exemplary lives without flashing it around for all to see. They have no religious flavors in their lives , yet lead very fullfilled lives that contribute to society in a very positive way.

"religion " is a choice.......unless one has been programmed from childhood........and far too many have. But that too is changing. But then , many peope simply "NEED" something abstract to hang on to ........or to give them a purpose in life. Non religious types are not as needy as a rule and are grounded in reality.

The focus should always be science and the furthering of same. Facts provide the reality to things......and the grounding.

what is nice on this topic...........is that it is representing the celebration of many views........without one view taking over. or condemnation of a certain view. Each view offers new insight. :idea:

 

[Said1]

RE: I would rather live m

Did anyone check IAC's IP address. Her posts are seemingly familiar. Than again, I did a lot of acid in high school, might just be me.

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: I would rather live m

When I said judged, I didn't mean by a god, as I don't believe in such a thing. I believe time ends for us, as imput ends, and we are left endlessly reliving our memories, a continous loop of time as our hell or heaven. Eventually you're reincarnated as a new being, and the weight of your last life is wiped clean.
However, if there is actually a mathematically predictable differences between souls, the odds are that eventually people such as the anti-christ and christ will exist at the same time when the total possibility of souls is reached as the population soars. The population rising above the natural sustainable level of the earth, has a result of destroying the systems that protect us, and make living possible. The population has gotten to this point by neglecting the seven mortal sins. Pride, this is the original mortal sin, as it gives us the feeling that we are above the system, and paves the way for the rest of the mortal sins. By living by those mortal sins, we were blinded, and built beyond what the earth could sustain, and now the planet that is perfect for us, is being destroyed by our own pride.
The nature of our planet is to sustain homeostasis, and it has correction factors to do this. Storms, earthquakes, and volcanos are part of this natural system. When something outgrows it's environment, nature kills it off. The pollution and other products of our overpopulating is going to cause the planet to drift into the same mode that formed our environment, because we are destroying the systems. What is a hurricane? Pull out a detailed map of the region of the atlantic where hurricanes originate. Take a close look at the way the currents interact. Between two opposing currents you get a dead spot where all the pollution collects, much of it sewage. As the sun breaks down the pollution naturally, it gives of gases lighter than air creating a massive low pressure system, which can develope into a hurricane. It follows the trade winds and the stream of pollution right to the source. Were there hurricanes before their were mass amounts of people? This is just one system. The heating of the earth has also caused the north atlantic current, which draws warm water from the tropics to heat the air masses that enter europe, to slow. As the ambient temps rise, the current will slow more an more until it shifts completely, which will result in Europe entering a mini ice age. The dinosaurs did the same thing to the planet, but weren't evolved enough to do anything about it. We also have our own nature working against us, and our greed and envy will also reduce our populous through wars. If you take all of the systems, and look at them overall, you'll see we are heading right towards what the bible describes. Hopefully once were at a sustainable populous, we'll start acting properly to keep this from happening again, but we're still going to have to except our consequences very soon, and their is no way out of it.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: I would rather live m

When I said judged, I didn't mean by a god, as I don't believe in such a thing. I believe time ends for us, as imput ends, and we are left endlessly reliving our memories, a continous loop of time as our hell or heaven. Eventually you're reincarnated as a new being, and the weight of your last life is wiped clean.
However, if there is actually a mathematically predictable differences between souls, the odds are that eventually people such as the anti-christ and christ will exist at the same time when the total possibility of souls is reached as the population soars. The population rising above the natural sustainable level of the earth, has a result of destroying the systems that protect us, and make living possible. The population has gotten to this point by neglecting the seven mortal sins. Pride, this is the original mortal sin, as it gives us the feeling that we are above the system, and paves the way for the rest of the mortal sins. By living by those mortal sins, we were blinded, and built beyond what the earth could sustain, and now the planet that is perfect for us, is being destroyed by our own pride.
The nature of our planet is to sustain homeostasis, and it has correction factors to do this. Storms, earthquakes, and volcanos are part of this natural system. When something outgrows it's environment, nature kills it off. The pollution and other products of our overpopulating is going to cause the planet to drift into the same mode that formed our environment, because we are destroying the systems. What is a hurricane? Pull out a detailed map of the region of the atlantic where hurricanes originate. Take a close look at the way the currents interact. Between two opposing currents you get a dead spot where all the pollution collects, much of it sewage. As the sun breaks down the pollution naturally, it gives of gases lighter than air creating a massive low pressure system, which can develope into a hurricane. It follows the trade winds and the stream of pollution right to the source. Were there hurricanes before their were mass amounts of people? This is just one system. The heating of the earth has also caused the north atlantic current, which draws warm water from the tropics to heat the air masses that enter europe, to slow. As the ambient temps rise, the current will slow more an more until it shifts completely, which will result in Europe entering a mini ice age. The dinosaurs did the same thing to the planet, but weren't evolved enough to do anything about it. We also have our own nature working against us, and our greed and envy will also reduce our populous through wars. If you take all of the systems, and look at them overall, you'll see we are heading right towards what the bible describes. Hopefully once were at a sustainable populous, we'll start acting properly to keep this from happening again, but we're still going to have to except our consequences very soon, and their is no way out of it.

That's an interesting post. Do you have a link, I'd like to see the above in greater detail.

 

[the caracal kid]

however, man started altering the global environment as far back as possibly 8000 years ago. It is proposed that we already avoided an ice-age because of global warming that began when man first started cutting down forests to grow crops.

We are effecting the planet. I do not think we will see biblestories come true though. No matter what happens, there is always somebody claiming it is a sign. The problem is that these "signs" are merely one's interpretation of events based on their preconceptions (you only find signs if you are looking for them).

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

however, man started altering the global environment as far back as possibly 8000 years ago. It is proposed that we already avoided an ice-age because of global warming that began when man first started cutting down forests to grow crops.

We are effecting the planet. I do not think we will see biblestories come true though. No matter what happens, there is always somebody claiming it is a sign. The problem is that these "signs" are merely one's interpretation of events based on their preconceptions (you only find signs if you are looking for them).

But 8000 yrs ago, man was more intune with nature and his role in sustaining the ecosystem he existed within.

Today, people scoff a the likes of Malthius, but he was only wrong in that he didn't count on technology prolonging the inevitable.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The problem is that these "signs" are merely one's interpretation of events based on their preconceptions (you only find signs if you are looking for them).

very true. So it is back to the MIND. ( which also means psychology_

this reminds me of a "test" done by some psychology/sociology types....... and it went like this. A group of people were set in a field of "three/Four " leaf clovers. and were told to find as many FOUR leaf clovers as they could. So with the preset of positive suggestion ........many found a lot. Another group were not told this instruction.......and hardly found any.

(and from what I can gather........."they" are still "debating " this..;-)

 

[iamcanadian]

"there is no such thing as good or evil"

This is the view that advances people with less competence over people with more competence.

Competent people with integrity are held back by people who lack competence but advance by acting unethical.

This is the social veriable that keeps society full of pockets of evildoers. No matter how hard good honest people try, and no matter what laws are passed or how hard we enforce them, this is the variable of most damage and distruction.

Otherwise we would have had a panacea by now on this planet, since not much social advancement has occured in the last 2000 years.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

"there is no such thing as good or evil"

this is accurate. They are "values" that mankind has applied to things, issues, ideas etc. They are value judgements. Neither word SAYS anything , yet is inflamatory , filled with bias and prejudice. .......

constructive/productive ......vs destructive/counterproductive are more accurate and descriptive.

(IMHO)