I think that Canada may be a little too "Multicultural"

JLM

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Charlemagne was critical in moving tradesmen and skills throughout Europe through war. Each time new skills were introduced to a region, the skills were shared ... with the best solution being adopted. There was a transfer of ideas and cultures that resulted in numerous innovations. When immigrants first landed in Canada, there was a similar, obvious situation where the better solutions and skills were adopted. But that's ancient history, and Canadians are not being overrun by war, but are instead generously opening their borders to people that seem to want to embrace our way of life. I definitely have to raise my eyebrows when someone gives the impression they want our way of life, but after being given the green light to enjoy our way of life, they decide they don't really want our way of life, but prefer to transplant their way of life into our backyards. Canada doesn't have a long history and culture, but it does have a culture and maybe there should be a time when that culture is protected, and not left open to blend into who knows what. First Nation is not the only culture that needs to be protected.

Maybe Canadians are a little hypocritical- today we believe that immigrants when they come to this country should adopt our language, way of life and customs and I'm all for that. But when our ancestors came here several hundred years ago they didn't want to adopt the prevailing way of life......................so I'm not sure what the best answer is.
 

Machjo

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Charlemagne was critical in moving tradesmen and skills throughout Europe through war. Each time new skills were introduced to a region, the skills were shared ... with the best solution being adopted. There was a transfer of ideas and cultures that resulted in numerous innovations. When immigrants first landed in Canada, there was a similar, obvious situation where the better solutions and skills were adopted. But that's ancient history, and Canadians are not being overrun by war, but are instead generously opening their borders to people that seem to want to embrace our way of life. I definitely have to raise my eyebrows when someone gives the impression they want our way of life, but after being given the green light to enjoy our way of life, they decide they don't really want our way of life, but prefer to transplant their way of life into our backyards. Canada doesn't have a long history and culture, but it does have a culture and maybe there should be a time when that culture is protected, and not left open to blend into who knows what. First Nation is not the only culture that needs to be protected.

Ancient history? The First Nations got the right to vote in 1960 and the last forced residential school had closed in the 1996! Add to that that even during the cold war, in the 1950s, some Inuit who are still alive today were forcibly relocated further North for military strategic reasons. If that's what you call ancient history, then your grandfather's time must be ancient antediluvian prehistory in your book.
 

Ariadne

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Aug 7, 2006
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Ancient history? The First Nations got the right to vote in 1960 and the last forced residential school had closed in the 1996! Add to that that even during the cold war, in the 1950s, some Inuit who are still alive today were forcibly relocated further North for military strategic reasons. If that's what you call ancient history, then your grandfather's time must be ancient antediluvian prehistory in your book.

I'm pretty sure that the first immigrants to Canada arrived before 1960, and Charlemagne is ancient history.
 

Ariadne

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Maybe Canadians are a little hypocritical- today we believe that immigrants when they come to this country should adopt our language, way of life and customs and I'm all for that. But when our ancestors came here several hundred years ago they didn't want to adopt the prevailing way of life......................so I'm not sure what the best answer is.

My parents spoke English because they learned it in school, but it was not their first, second, or even third language. English was not my first language either, even though I was born in Canada. I learned French and English before the age of five because those are the languages in Canada. Now English is my primary language, but when I was growing up there were several languages spoken at home. I think my parents embraced Canada, its values, culture, language and even the customs. I see no reason why other immigrants today can't do the same thing.

As for the original immigrants, was there a unified Canadian language to learn? I thought different tribes had their own language. I think some people learned some of the languages, but without a recognizable language that was used across the country, it would be a bit much to ask that everyone learn a new language as they travel across the country.
 

Machjo

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And as for Canadian culture, considering that it is still in its infancy, it has yet to fully evolve before it can truly stand on its own feet. Let's face it. We use foreign languages, study foreign literatures in school (Shakespeare was not exactly born in the suburbs of Toronto you know), etc. etc. etc.

We have a long way to go before Canada truly has a culture of its own. It took most countries literally many centuries to develop their own unique cultures. There simply is no way Canada can achieve the same in only a few centuries. Our culture continues to this day to be dependent on its English and French roots, with English Canadians still reading Blake and French Canadians still reading de la Fontaine as part of their standard school poetry! Again, just as Blake wasn't born in Calgary, de la Fontaine wasn't born in Montreal!

Seeing that our culture is still, for all intents and purposes, a colonial one, we must continue to allow it to evolve so that it can eventually develop a culture of its own that is fully independent of its English and French roots, and that will literally take centuries, until Canada can develop a Shakespeare or a Blake or a de la Fontaine or a Hugo of its own who stands at the same level a their European counterparts among the classics and the greats.

Heck, consider this poem, written by Canadian poet Wilfred Campbell (1858 to 1918). While I realize you'd consider the early 20th century to be before the time of Adam, I think most with a sense of history realize it's really not that long ago.

ENGLAND, England, England,
Girdled by ocean and skies,
And the power of a world, and the heart of a race,
And a hope that never dies.

England, England, England,
Wherever a true heart beats,
Wherever the rivers of commerce flow,
Wherever the bugles of conquest blow,
Wherever the glories of liberty grow,
'Tis the name that the world repeats.

And ye, who dwell in the shadow
Of the century-sculptured piles,
Where sleep our century-honoured dead,
Whilst the great world thunders overhead,
And far out, miles on miles,
Beyond the smoke of the mighty town,
The blue Thames dimples and smiles;
Not yours alone the glory of old,
Of the splendid thousand years,
Of Britain's might and Britain's right
And the brunt of British spears.
Not yours alone, for the great world round,
Ready to dare and do,
Scot and Celt and Norman and Dane,
With the Northman's sinew and heart and brain,
And the Northman's courage for blessing or bane,
Are England's heroes too.

North and south and east and west,
Wherever their triumphs be,
Their glory goes home to the ocean-girt isle,
Where the heather blooms and the roses smile,
With the green isle under her lee.
And if ever the smoke of an alien gun
Should threaten her iron repose,
Shoulder to shoulder against the world,
Face to face with her foes,


Scot, and Celt and Saxon are one
Where the glory of England goes.

And we of the newer and vaster West,
Where the great war-banners are furled,
And commerce hurries her teeming hosts,
And the cannon are silent along our coasts,
Saxon and Gaul, Canadians claim
A part in the glory and pride and aim
Of the Empire that girdles the world.

England, England, England,
Wherever the daring heart
By Arctic floe or torrid strand
Thy heroes play their part;
For as long as conquest holds the earth,
Or commerce sweeps the sea,
By orient jungle or western plain
Will the Saxon spirit be:
And whatever the people that dwell beneath,
Or whatever the alien tongue,
Over the freedom and peace of the world
Is the flag of England flung,
Till the last great freedom is found,
And the last great truth be taught,
Till the last great deed be done,
And the last great battle is fought;
Till the last great fighter is slain in the last great fight,
And the war-wolf is dead in his den–
England, breeder of hope and valour and might,
Iron mother of men.

Yea, England, England, England,
Till honour and valour are dead,
Till the world's great cannons rust,
Till the world's great hopes are dust,
Till faith and freedom be fled,
Till wisdom and justice have passed
To sleep with those who sleep in the many-chambered vast,
Till glory and knowledge are charnelled dust in dust,
To all that is best in the world's unrest,


In heart and mind you are wed.
While out from the Indian jungle
To the far Canadian snows,
Over the East and over the West,
Over the worst and over the best,
The flag of the world to its winds unfurled,
The blood-red ensign blows.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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As for the original immigrants, was there a unified Canadian language to learn? I thought different tribes had their own language. I think some people learned some of the languages, but without a recognizable language that was used across the country, it would be a bit much to ask that everyone learn a new language as they travel across the country.

Is there a unified language in Europe?
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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My parents spoke English because they learned it in school, but it was not their first, second, or even third language. English was not my first language either, even though I was born in Canada. I learned French and English before the age of five because those are the languages in Canada. Now English is my primary language, but when I was growing up there were several languages spoken at home. I think my parents embraced Canada, its values, culture, language and even the customs. I see no reason why other immigrants today can't do the same thing.

As for the original immigrants, was there a unified Canadian language to learn? I thought different tribes had their own language. I think some people learned some of the languages, but without a recognizable language that was used across the country, it would be a bit much to ask that everyone learn a new language as they travel across the country.

Canada's borders as we know them today did not exist yet. Within each nation, they certainly had a unified language and culture. However, as pointed out above, Canada is still wearing diapers and crawling, culturally speaking. Sure we have a Canadian literature, but most of our classics come from across the pond. So even our education system is still very European, as it needs to be since we cannot stand up on our own two feet as a nation yet. We are still dependent on France and England for our culture and literature since that is where our languages and cultures come from. Sure the First Nations likely have simply put many of their stories in writing by now and teach that in their schools. However, French and English Canadians cannot fully separate themselves from across the pond. We're not developed enough for that yet.
 

lone wolf

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Machjo

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Which country? I don't think it's quite right to compare the languages in the country of Canada to those of all of Europe.

Well, seeing that Canada is not even three centuries old yet, to be fair, we can compare the nations that existed here before with their European counterparts, owing to the long history of each thus allowing each to create an independent cultural entity of its own able to stand on its own two feet, unlike French-Canadian and English-Canadian cultures.

And besides, even today the traces of empire and colonization are still evident in Canada. According to StatsCan 2006, about 15% of the population of Nunavut speak neither English nor French. Now you won't tell me there's a major immigration boom going on their I hope. In Quebec likewise, the majority of the population (asuming you travel beyond Montreal and a few French-speaking enclaves) are about as functional in English as the average Torontonian is in French. The reason for this again is that the land Canada was recently built on belonged to all kinds of nations not long ago. So naturally we're still in an evolutionary developmental stage as a baby nation. As pointed out in the poem above, English-Canadians still essentially thought of themselves as British just at the beginning of the last century. Imagine that.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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Wasn't he the last good P.M. Canada had?

The right to vote is one of the great privileges of democratic society, for after all it is you the people, not the Gallup poll, who determine into whose hands the guidance of public affairs may best be entrusted.
– John G. Diefenbaker
June 15, 1962​
Quoted in "A History of the Vote in Canada."
It would be instructive for some to review how the vote was denied on the basis of race and religion in Canada.
Elections Canada Online | A History of the Vote in Canada
 

Ariadne

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Aug 7, 2006
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The right to vote is one of the great privileges of democratic society, for after all it is you the people, not the Gallup poll, who determine into whose hands the guidance of public affairs may best be entrusted.
– John G. Diefenbaker
June 15, 1962​
Quoted in "A History of the Vote in Canada."
It would be instructive for some to review how the vote was denied on the basis of race and religion in Canada.
Elections Canada Online | A History of the Vote in Canada

Shouldn't gender be included as well? Seems to me that the vote was denied in Canada on the basis of gender ... maybe race and religion were other under-priviled groups, but I think gender discrimination accounts for a large percentage of the population that was denied the right to vote. Women did something to fix that problem, and presumably someone in the race and religion group did the same thing.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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The right to vote is one of the great privileges of democratic society, for after all it is you the people, not the Gallup poll, who determine into whose hands the guidance of public affairs may best be entrusted.
– John G. Diefenbaker
June 15, 1962​
Quoted in "A History of the Vote in Canada."
It would be instructive for some to review how the vote was denied on the basis of race and religion in Canada.
Elections Canada Online | A History of the Vote in Canada

Very good site. We often seem to forget that, in historical terms, just a blink of an eye ago some were denied the right to vote for all kinds of reasons we'd find dispicable today. heck, our own parents were alive during those times!
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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Shouldn't gender be included as well? Seems to me that the vote was denied in Canada on the basis of gender ... maybe race and religion were other under-priviled groups, but I think gender discrimination accounts for a large percentage of the population that was denied the right to vote. Women did something to fix that problem, and presumably someone in the race and religion group did the same thing.
...or some politician with an eye toward grateful new voters did - if you want to presume
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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Very good site. We often seem to forget that, in historical terms, just a blink of an eye ago some were denied the right to vote for all kinds of reasons we'd find dispicable today. heck, our own parents were alive during those times!


Hell, a lot of those who post in these forums were alive! And, these were not new Canadians but those born in this country who were denied suffrage. We are aware of the case of women, but forget or are unaware of the others.