I Don't Get It ...
- Thread starter Paranoid Dot Calm
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Reverend Blair said:
That depends on who the reader is. For the general public that knows nothing about government maybe feel like you. But anyone here who has worked with or for the government in any significant possition and time will know exactly where I am comming from.
I happen to know several senior civil servants, that's why I know what the audits are like and how the budgets are handled and how the hiring/promotion process works and all of the other little points you made erroneous claims about.
Unless you are willing to give us your credentials, and your name so we can check those credentials out, then I'll trust the people I've known my entire life over the word of an anonymous internet poster with a political bone to pick.
Unless you are willing to give us your credentials, and your name so we can check those credentials out, then I'll trust the people I've known my entire life over the word of an anonymous internet poster with a political bone to pick.
I am certain that I know more individuals and more senior individuals that you can possibly know.
In any event my words speak for themselves and I will do my best to defend my points of view, if you are up the the challenge. Since you know so much about these things, you should be able to say more than "prove it", and offer some reaoned contrary opinion I can sink my teeth into.
In any event my words speak for themselves and I will do my best to defend my points of view, if you are up the the challenge. Since you know so much about these things, you should be able to say more than "prove it", and offer some reaoned contrary opinion I can sink my teeth into.
You can start by offering some proof. The processes and checks and balances I've referred to are a matter of public record. Nothing that you've referred to is.
The fact that corruption within the government gets brought to light and that civil get disciplined...including getting fired and, in at least one case I know of, going to jail...shows that your claims that there are no checks and balances are innaccurate at best.
The fact that corruption within the government gets brought to light and that civil get disciplined...including getting fired and, in at least one case I know of, going to jail...shows that your claims that there are no checks and balances are innaccurate at best.
With three million civil servants in Canada you would think that more than a few would be getting caught doing something wrong to be sent to jail for.
You don't here much about that kind of thing in Canada, like people hear in other parts of the world. So you assume that we are less corrupt.
The reality is that our political and civil systems rally around issues of corruption; one fellow called it "circling the wagons", to prevent such issues from comming out in the open and instead cover them up to avoid responsibility and accountability on the government as a whole.
You don't here much about that kind of thing in Canada, like people hear in other parts of the world. So you assume that we are less corrupt.
The reality is that our political and civil systems rally around issues of corruption; one fellow called it "circling the wagons", to prevent such issues from comming out in the open and instead cover them up to avoid responsibility and accountability on the government as a whole.
First of all, not every civil servant who gets caught doing something wrong makes the news. Think about Harper's attempt to go after Fisheries. He got a hold of an audit that found irregularites. He stood up in the house and tried to use it as proof of Liberal corruption. The thing is that the irregularities had nothing to do with the Liberals and both of the instances he had brought up had already resulted in the employees being disciplined...one of them was fired.
The reality is that you and others who engage in government-bashing know nothing about what you are talking about and do more harm than good.
The reality is that you and others who engage in government-bashing know nothing about what you are talking about and do more harm than good.
You sound like a PR guy from some government agency or another.
If we talk about it and get it all out in the open, how is that doing more harm than letting it go on secretly and denying we have a problem.
The only ones that gains are the unethical and the corrupt your way.
If we talk about it and get it all out in the open, how is that doing more harm than letting it go on secretly and denying we have a problem.
The only ones that gains are the unethical and the corrupt your way.
Sorry, iam(not)canadian, given your cryptic responses for where you get your information you certainly cannot complain about the secrecy of others.
Government audits are available to the opposition, that's why Harper had the audit. Sheila Fraser reports to Parliament, not to a specific party.
There is corruption in government, just like there is every place else. Much of that corruption comes from corporate influence on government, yet you refuse to address that. Some of it comes from the opposition, yet you refuse to address that. Much less of it comes from within the civil service itself, yet you claim that it does. Patronage appointments are a major source of corruption and incompetence, yet you champion nepotism.
Give it up.
Government audits are available to the opposition, that's why Harper had the audit. Sheila Fraser reports to Parliament, not to a specific party.
There is corruption in government, just like there is every place else. Much of that corruption comes from corporate influence on government, yet you refuse to address that. Some of it comes from the opposition, yet you refuse to address that. Much less of it comes from within the civil service itself, yet you claim that it does. Patronage appointments are a major source of corruption and incompetence, yet you champion nepotism.
Give it up.
You keep tying everything back to politicians and parties, though I have made it abundantly clear that politicians are not the corruption problem.
They are only a problem for not doing anything about it, and in fact protecting it and covering it up, and some (a very few) even wetting their beeks in it.
The problem is in non-elected people that have life-long public authority and opportunity to abuse the taxpayer.
They are only a problem for not doing anything about it, and in fact protecting it and covering it up, and some (a very few) even wetting their beeks in it.
The problem is in non-elected people that have life-long public authority and opportunity to abuse the taxpayer.
Prove it. Give us sources and numbers. Go to Sheila Fraser and tell her that she should do another audit.
You have made nothing abundantly clear, all you've done is make vague accusations and refused to back them up.
Rev, You want proof but you can handle the truth.
Favouritism is not a crime:
Ten Civil Service Procurement Practices
1. It is legal to pay more for services than necessary to friends
2. It is legal to refuse to pay for services from those that are not friends
3. It is legal to be entertained and get favours from friends as long it is not money
4. It is legal to screen bidders so that friends have advantages over others
5. It is legal to add money to a friend’s contract and to not do the same to others
6. It is legal to arrange public contracts so that friends get work at higher prices
7. It is legal to specify things that cost more and then let friends do it a cheaper way without following the specs.
8. It is legal to proprietarily specify a friends products that costs more than better products
9. It is legal to let friends do inferior work and to demand impossible perfection from others
10. It is legal to do public business acting unfairly and unreasonably with people so that only your friends benefit
Favouritism is not a crime:
Ten Civil Service Procurement Practices
1. It is legal to pay more for services than necessary to friends
2. It is legal to refuse to pay for services from those that are not friends
3. It is legal to be entertained and get favours from friends as long it is not money
4. It is legal to screen bidders so that friends have advantages over others
5. It is legal to add money to a friend’s contract and to not do the same to others
6. It is legal to arrange public contracts so that friends get work at higher prices
7. It is legal to specify things that cost more and then let friends do it a cheaper way without following the specs.
8. It is legal to proprietarily specify a friends products that costs more than better products
9. It is legal to let friends do inferior work and to demand impossible perfection from others
10. It is legal to do public business acting unfairly and unreasonably with people so that only your friends benefit
I can handle the truth just fine. I'm just waiting for you to speak some for once. You've avoided the truth since you got here.
Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...
Rev, How can it NOT be corrupt with these types of practices being all perfectly legal in government spending?
In the private sector employees would be dismissed without even being told why if they are merely suspected of any one of these.
In the public sector this is expected and protected when someone brings it to the attention of higher authorities, like the elected bodies and also the judicial systems (both civil and criminal).
iamcanadian said:
Rev, How can it NOT be corrupt with these types of practices being all perfectly legal in government spending?
In the private sector employees would be dismissed without even being told why if they are merely suspected of any one of these.
In the public sector this is expected and protected when someone brings it to the attention of higher authorities, like the elected bodies and also the judicial systems (both civil and criminal).
That kind of thing goes on all of the time in the private sector, iam(not)canadian.
In the public sector you have to follow guidelines set up by the elected officials in government. If you do not follow those guidelines the auditor will catch it and you will be disciplined...up to and including being fired.
You have provided no proof for anything you have said. None. Not a source, not a number, not a position. Nothing. You've listed a lot of things that aren't illegal. So what? Lots of things aren't illegal.
In the public sector you have to follow guidelines set up by the elected officials in government. If you do not follow those guidelines the auditor will catch it and you will be disciplined...up to and including being fired.
You have provided no proof for anything you have said. None. Not a source, not a number, not a position. Nothing. You've listed a lot of things that aren't illegal. So what? Lots of things aren't illegal.
Reverend Blair said:Doryman said:
Read what you wrote. Now read what I wrote. Think about it. You told me and other leftists to chew on something and I responded, "Bite me."
You know, it's not terribly funny, but it sure as hell isn't complicated either. It was just a throw-away line that I thought even the simplest, semi-literate person on the board might pick up on and smile a bit at. Apparently you aren't up to the challenge though.
Mmm, no. laughing uproariously at you cryptic and borderline-retarded attempts at humour aren't really on my list of things to do. So what you're trying to tell me is... that message was half-cocked and meant absolutely nothing? What a surprise, Rev, no wonder it never jumped out from the rest of your posts, it was camoflaged in a coat of hot air.
You really have no idea, do you? Go to a reserve or two. Try a couple of the remote ones. Read the treaties and the history. In other words, educate yourself.
It's not that I have no idea, it's just that I'm tired of being held responsible for crimes commited byy men long dead, for the simple reason that I am the same color and language group as them.
It was the result of racism within the government and within the OPP. It was business as usual for the radical right.
iam(not)canadian said:
What is your plan Mr. Doryman. I have been to reserves, what do you propose we do.
It is your problem. Your ancestors, and mine completely destroyed the aboriginal culture, political, and social system. They tried to assimilate them into white-man society or at worst destroy them completely. This has resulted in the poverty, in the crime, in the unemployment, in the 'disenfranchisement' of aboriginal people who don't want to vote.
They want to work with Canada, just look at them participating in the army, in UN peacekeeping, in the first and second world wars. What do you plan to do Mr. Doryman. If you want to get rid of their rights that they deserve for what I white-man did to them, I have one thing to say to you
"It is time for you and I to pay for the white-man's mistake, and when, and when the aboriginal people of Canada are on the same level as other Canadians and not before, will we consider a different plan."
Understood. Adimos!
It is your problem. Your ancestors, and mine completely destroyed the aboriginal culture, political, and social system. They tried to assimilate them into white-man society or at worst destroy them completely. This has resulted in the poverty, in the crime, in the unemployment, in the 'disenfranchisement' of aboriginal people who don't want to vote.
They want to work with Canada, just look at them participating in the army, in UN peacekeeping, in the first and second world wars. What do you plan to do Mr. Doryman. If you want to get rid of their rights that they deserve for what I white-man did to them, I have one thing to say to you
"It is time for you and I to pay for the white-man's mistake, and when, and when the aboriginal people of Canada are on the same level as other Canadians and not before, will we consider a different plan."
Understood. Adimos!
That heading caught my eye as I am in the same boat. I don't get any either! (Strange stuff anyway!)
Then I read one or two posts and realized a bunch posting here don't get it either. :roll:
But in time I will edumacate you Comrades.
No need to thank me...............
Cuz we are Principled Conservatives ......
Thats what we do.................................
Help bewildered lost Comrades.................
See the light.....................................