I Don't Get It ...

[Said1]

Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...

I'm not a Leninist though, Said. I'm not a Marxist, a Trotskyite, or a strict follower of Engles either.

I know, but it does fall in line with Lenin's theory's of Capitalist and Underdeveloped nations. And again, I agree.

 

[Reverend Blair]

It does. It also fits into Marx's theory that capitalism will naturally oppress people to make a profit and marginalise those it cannot make a profit from.

 

[CutThroat]

Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...

It's because so much of it goes to pay off the debt that Conservative governments built up by paying off their corporate buddies.

Care to back that up with anything. From the sounds of it, it was the liberals who handed over our hard money to make their corporate buddies overnight millionairs. Have you heard of the adscam?

 

[Doryman]

What I find quite amazing is that when Canadians look at a homeless man or an unemployed person on our streets, we sort of write them off and suggest that it is the persons fault for being that way. We sort of suggest that if the guy had any fortitude, he'd pull up his socks and get real with life. We continually tell the needy people of our own country that they got all that they are entitled to.


However; at the same time, we look at people in Iraq - Afghanistan, and try to find any reason or any excuse to help them out. We suppose that they are unable to help themselves and need some military people with a martyr mentality (Peace Keepers) to show them the way and without any thought of the financial costs.
That wasn't a peace-keeping mission, Calm, that was an attack on a government which launched an attack on our ally.

Canadians are willing to give up their lives to help somebody in another country but won't give up a measley tax cut to help our people right here at home.

Actually, only the Canadians that join the military are willing to give up their lives... and they're usually the same ones who give out money to the homeless. How about some of you leftists chew on that?

Maybe the government is just trying to train our soldiers and trying to get them used to killing people because they soon will be called upon to shoot unemployed (under-employed) protesters here in Canada.

Mmmmm.... not likely, Calm. It's a big step for a country to go from supporting an ally to mowing down drug-addicts and over-zealous university students for the crime of carrying signs.

Just like the what happened at Ipperwash and Oka. Just like what the cops are doing to natives out west.

Yes I agree that people may get shot if they rise up in illegal armed resistance against the State. Gosh no.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Care to back that up with anything.

Yeah, Mulroney's fiscal record. It is the debt he built up while selling this country to the lowest bidder that built the debt so much of our tax money goes to service.

Actually, only the Canadians that join the military are willing to give up their lives... and they're usually the same ones who give out money to the homeless. How about some of you leftists chew on that?

I'm going to be as polite as possible about this...BITE ME. Everybody I know on the left gives generously to the charities of their choice.

Yes I agree that people may get shot if they rise up in illegal armed resistance against the State. Gosh no.

The natives at Ipperwash were not armed. They were protesting peacefully.

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

Here's a suggestion, ask the person how they ended up where they are?
I grew up in a middle class family in a rural area, my dad owns his own business, and my mom works in healthcare. Just before my 18th birthday, I was rearended. I had a promising career ahead of me in welding, and because of my dad's connections I would have been making 100 grand a year in a short while. Because of this accident, I was no longer able to work in my desired profession, and I'm limited to mostly paper work and light duties now. Three years after the accident, I finally recieved my insurance settlement, which was about half of what I'd be making a year now. Since I couldn't work for a while as my injuries have gotten in the way, it barely covered my debt from the time between the accident and my settlement. Now my predicament is that my parents make too much money to get a loan for school, and i'm too messed up to work a labour job that would let me save for school. If it wasn't for the fact that my parents are willing to help me out, my only option would be to make money through illegal means. Right now, my life completely sucks. I pretty much make just enough to to eat, and for a place to live. I haven't gone out in two months, my clothes look like shit, and now i'm in a situation where my income won't be enough to cover next months rent. So now I have to swallow my pride, and move back in with my parents, and I'll likely be declaring bankruptcy this year. The worst part of failing, is the seemingly endless depression I've had for the last three years as a result of losing everything I had going, which has all but killed my motivation. Some days I just stay in bed, cause I have nothing to look forward to that's worth getting out of bed for. And i'm not stupid or anything, infact I actually have a very high IQ, which gets me even less sympothy.
Many homeless people are homeless for the sheer reason that unlike me, they don't have a family willing to take them in.

 

[Doryman]

I'm going to be as polite as possible about this...BITE ME. Everybody I know on the left gives generously to the charities of their choice.

Now that's some masterful debating skills. And I didn't say that people on the left didn't give to charities, I just insinuated that they'd have to accept that so did soldiers, soldiers who are also willing to die in a foreign country while trying to make that country a better place

The natives at Ipperwash were not armed. They were protesting peacefully.[/quote]

I'm sorry for including them in that statement then. Honestly, I know nothing about Ipperwash. So from what you've told me I have to admit that the cops screwed up royally by shooting an innocent man. But at Oka, they shot armed rebels. Big difference.

IN any case, I support paying more taxes for helping homeless people, and I support the raising of minimum wage to AT LEAST an amount that will let people survive on that income alone. I mean, crap, minimum wages are criminally small, and I recognize that some panhandlers are probably wearing Wal-Mart smocks when they're not huddling over sewer grates.

However, I don't support handing out sums to people on the street. It usually jsut benefits posers and drug-addicts. I give money in taxes, and I expect the government to do something about the problem.

 

[MMMike]

That sucks, Alberta's Finest. I feel for you. I hope you do go to school and get into a different rewarding career.

 

[iamcanadian]

In Canada much of the poverty and needy is artificial maintained. We have a great deal of non-profit groups living high on the hog with government grants and donations taken in to look after these people.

It's like a make work project helping people just enough but not too much, to perpetually keep non-profit corporation personel employed, but not enough to put people on their feet and self suficient which would eliminate the need for all of the non-profit groups.

If they took all the money that is spent on the needy, salaries and expenses etc., each needy person could retire to Florida with the money and live on a resort on the beach somewhere for life on roomservice.

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

You can't cure cancer with a band-aid.
I hope I can overcome my problems, and hopefully one day I'll be able to help others do the same.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...

In Canada much of the poverty and needy is artificial maintained. We have a great deal of non-profit groups living high on the hog with government grants and donations taken in to look after these people.

It's like a make work project helping people just enough but not too much, to perpetually keep non-profit corporation personel employed, but not enough to put people on their feet and self suficient which would eliminate the need for all of the non-profit groups.

If they took all the money that is spent on the needy, salaries and expenses etc., each needy person could retire to Florida with the money and live on a resort on the beach somewhere for life on roomservice.

Wow, how do you know so much?

I work for a smaller part of a much bigger "non-profit" org and quite frankly, I have no problem saying it's the single most successful program I've ever seen. It's unfortunate, most serve as "quick fixers", they could learn a lot from their philosophies.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Now that's some masterful debating skills. Very Happy And I didn't say that people on the left didn't give to charities, I just insinuated that they'd have to accept that so did soldiers, soldiers who are also willing to die in a foreign country while trying to make that country a better place

No, you said,

Actually, only the Canadians that join the military are willing to give up their lives... and they're usually the same ones who give out money to the homeless. How about some of you leftists chew on that?

I say again, BITE ME!

I'm sorry for including them in that statement then. Honestly, I know nothing about Ipperwash. So from what you've told me I have to admit that the cops screwed up royally by shooting an innocent man. But at Oka, they shot armed rebels. Big difference.

They were armed at Oka. Of course if somebody were to go to where your ancestors were buried and say they going to destroy it to build a golf course, you might be tempted to pick up a rifle too.

We'll see a lot more of that kind of thing in the future if we don't start paying real attention to native rights in this country.

The cops at Ipperwash were under political pressure from Mike Harris' ultra Conservative government to get the natives out of Ipperwash, btw.

 

[Doryman]

Now that's some masterful debating skills. Very Happy And I didn't say that people on the left didn't give to charities, I just insinuated that they'd have to accept that so did soldiers, soldiers who are also willing to die in a foreign country while trying to make that country a better place

No, you said,

Actually, only the Canadians that join the military are willing to give up their lives... and they're usually the same ones who give out money to the homeless. How about some of you leftists chew on that?

I say again, BITE ME!

Again Rev, what's with the bite me? I was expecting at least some sort of logical argument to go against mine. My message is that, even though many left-wing people don't like the military, they have to accept that those people have a social conciou too. And you come back with "BITE ME!" Sheesh. If you were lecturing Colpy or someone on how Bush is a liar, and he replied with that you'd write it off as a narrow-minded and childish avoidance of the argument. C'mon, you can do better. Besides, what about that comment ticks you off? THe fact that I suggested some left-leaning people think about it before writing off soldiers as heartless robots...?


We'll see a lot more of that kind of thing in the future if we don't start paying real attention to native rights in this country.


Yeah... because we've totally left them out in the cold until now. i think free education, preferential treatment when applying for any government job and Billions o' dollars have done pretty good so far.

The cops at Ipperwash were under political pressure from Mike Harris' ultra Conservative government to get the natives out of Ipperwash, btw.


Ah.. I do remember that actually. That was the "get the Indians outta my park" thing, right? That, as I conceded, was the result of a asshole premier combined with some dumb cops.

 

[iamcanadian]

Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...

Wow, how do you know so much?

I have been fighting against corruption in our governments for almost thirty years. I have seen everything more than once.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hi! Alberta'sFinest

Nice meeting you.

I read your little trip here and I wanted to tell you that it was very well said or explained.

If you ever wanted to learn about puters and other stuff such as graphics or whatever .... you just let me know.

If yuh need software or tutorials, I can can help yuh out.

If ever you need your puter repaired and were willing to pay postage, I would repair it for you for free. All you need do is send the box and not the monitor. FedEx or Purolator can have it here and back within 5 days.

I promise it won't cost you a single solitary dime.

I'm presently receiving a disability pension and I know exactly where your at.

Calm

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...

Wow, how do you know so much?

I have been fighting against corruption in our governments for almost thirty years. I have seen everything more than once.

Which leads you to know what about non-profit organizations? Not much, based on your comments. Sure, many are pointless, but not all. Your posts are full of unsubstantiated generalizations, your non-verified assumptions would have a warmer reception if you avoided that bad habit. You might be interested to know that you have the highest rate of doing that on this board, per capita.


Also, tell us more about what you calling "fighting against government corruption". Are you a whistle blower? Did you refuse to do certain things required of you when working for the government because those things were morally wrong and then were let go? Where you fired for speaking out against your corrupt superiours, who were later reprimanded because you refused to let injustice go unaccounted for? Do you have a beef with the feds? Be careful, you remember what happened to Linda Tripp?

 

[Jay]

Ah.. I do remember that actually. That was the "get the Indians outta my park" thing, right? That, as I conceded, was the result of a asshole premier combined with some dumb cops.

Don't listen to him. If it was Bob Ray running the show when this happened, he would be falling over himself saying how strapped the government was in dealing with this and that accidents happen.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Again Rev, what's with the bite me?

Read what you wrote. Now read what I wrote. Think about it. You told me and other leftists to chew on something and I responded, "Bite me."

You know, it's not terribly funny, but it sure as hell isn't complicated either. It was just a throw-away line that I thought even the simplest, semi-literate person on the board might pick up on and smile a bit at. Apparently you aren't up to the challenge though.

Yeah... because we've totally left them out in the cold until now. i think free education, preferential treatment when applying for any government job and Billions o' dollars have done pretty good so far.

You really have no idea, do you? Go to a reserve or two. Try a couple of the remote ones. Read the treaties and the history. In other words, educate yourself.

Ah.. I do remember that actually. That was the "get the Indians outta my park" thing, right? That, as I conceded, was the result of a asshole premier combined with some dumb cops.

It was the result of racism within the government and within the OPP. It was business as usual for the radical right.

I have been fighting against corruption in our governments for almost thirty years. I have seen everything more than once.

So it isn't that you don't know how things work then, it's that you choose to say things that aren't true?

 

[iamcanadian]

Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...

Also, tell us more about what you calling "fighting against government corruption". Are you a whistle blower? Did you refuse to do certain things required of you when working for the government because those things were morally wrong and then were let go? Where you fired for speaking out against your corrupt superiours

Warm...But you would not believe it if I told you what happened. So just take what I say as being from someone deeply knowledgable in the innermost workings of big government business activity.

There are good and honest non-profit groups and government departments run by people with ethics and integrity, just not enough nor very many of them out there.

 

[iamcanadian]

Re: RE: I Don't Get It ...

Your posts are full of unsubstantiated generalizations, your non-verified assumptions would have a warmer reception if you avoided that bad habit.

I like to consider them as logical extrapolation of opinion that fit observation and generally known fact.