I Am Not Un-American, Just Tired

Ocean Breeze

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manda said:
I have to ask Ocean, how can you live with such overbearing conviction...I think my head would explode if I felt the way you do
. Sometimes it's better to state your opinion with humility and let it fend for itself. You can't make everybody see your side, it's jsut the way life is
:?: :?: :?:

what "conviction" are you referring to???

Not sure it matters all that much if anyone/everyone sees "my" or any other "side"........IF there is a "side" in the equation here.

but gosh, we is all way off the original topic. Which seems to be being called "unAmerican". Personally, I don't buy into that kind of stuff ....... any more than pin pointing someone as being "un Canadian." (or unEgyptian, UnItalian etc) Everyone is different , and this makes up the milieu of a culture /country.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Re: RE: I Am Not Un-American, Just Tired

manda said:
we sure did stray from the topic...I guess I refer to most of your convictions..and touche on the side issue...i should have said opinion. You're just so thouroughly convinced...
:wink:

correction: "opinionated" might be a more appropriate term. :wink:

Not "convinced" of anything. :wink: ......except I know a good discussion board when I see one. :wink:
 

manda

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Re: RE: I Am Not Un-American, Just Tired

Ocean Breeze said:
manda said:
we sure did stray from the topic...I guess I refer to most of your convictions..and touche on the side issue...i should have said opinion. You're just so thouroughly convinced...
:wink:

correction: "opinionated" might be a more appropriate term. :wink:

Not "convinced" of anything. :wink: ......except I know a good discussion board when I see one. :wink:

I don't know that "opinionated" is quite what I'm looking for, I consider myself very opinionated :D ...let me get my inner thesaurus working and I'll get back to you...good discussion board...ya got that right! :thumbright:
 

Ocean Breeze

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Re: RE: I Am Not Un-American, Just Tired

manda said:
Ocean Breeze said:
manda said:
we sure did stray from the topic...I guess I refer to most of your convictions..and touche on the side issue...i should have said opinion. You're just so thouroughly convinced...
:wink:

correction: "opinionated" might be a more appropriate term. :wink:

Not "convinced" of anything. :wink: ......except I know a good discussion board when I see one. :wink:

I don't know that "opinionated" is quite what I'm looking for, I consider myself very opinionated :D ...let me get my inner thesaurus working and I'll get back to you...good discussion board...ya got that right! :thumbright:

Manda: you is one cool person. !! (and debator)... bravo.

tell ya something, it is only here, that I get seriously "opinionated".......as it quite mentally stimulating to read other opinions/thoughts on the serious issues confounding all of us these days. In a way it is a catharsis , a sharing of thoughts and feelings about the troubles we all face. The other great benefit is to learn how others view things. A learning experience.
 

manda

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Re: RE: I Am Not Un-American, Just Tired

Ocean Breeze said:
Manda: you is one cool person. !! (and debator)... bravo.

tell ya something, it is only here, that I get seriously "opinionated".......as it quite mentally stimulating to read other opinions/thoughts on the serious issues confounding all of us these days. In a way it is a catharsis , a sharing of thoughts and feelings about the troubles we all face. The other great benefit is to learn how others view things. A learning experience.

First of all: thanks, you're a pretty cool character yourself.

Me, I'm the exact same here as I am in reality...if you were to bump into me on the street, you'd know it was me right away by the way I act...well that and the fact that you all have access to what I look like now. Surprisingly, my opinions have yet to get me fired or arrested, but came pretty close to it once, really pissed a c :oops: ck s :!: cking city police officer once by telling him what I thought of the job he was doing he he he he
 

gopher

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This is not paranoid thinking -- this is called heeding a clear warning and learning from past history.


The only real paranoia is that demonstrated by the right wingers who stupidly insist that anyone who opposes Bush's criminally imperialistic war is, somehow, unAmerican.

The truth is that people like yourself who want Peace and who courageously assert themselves are the genuine patriots.
 

Ocean Breeze

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gopher said:
This is not paranoid thinking -- this is called heeding a clear warning and learning from past history.


The only real paranoia is that demonstrated by the right wingers who stupidly insist that anyone who opposes Bush's criminally imperialistic war is, somehow, unAmerican.

The truth is that people like yourself who want Peace and who courageously assert themselves are the genuine patriots.

spot on!!
 

Ocean Breeze

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q: Isn't it "unAmerican" to call a fellow American ..."unAmerican"??

The nation is not THAT divided , is it???? Where is all that flag waving unity and "patriotism" ...."we" keep seeing and hearing about??

just musing...
 

mrmom2

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Mar 8, 2005
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Hey Jj don't listen to anybody who calls you parnoid :wink: These people are what I call Dellusional they don't want to see what is happening :x Might upset the nice little world they've built for themselves :p Hey ITN you just go right ahead and let the goverment keep taking your rights away .We know whats happening .I learned about thiis stuff years ago and did not believe it either :wink: But you better start taking a look around there buddy .Cameras everywhere cops in black ski masks calling you citizen like their better than you some how .The western way of life is under attack and were just trying to stop it so leave your attacks for the real problem our Goverments :wink: No one is asking you to believe us do your own research .These assholes are not even trying to hide what they want to do anymore .General Tommy Franks came right out and said one more attack on US soil and THERE WILL BE MARSHAL LAW DECLARED :x
 

Ocean Breeze

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mrmom2 said:
Hey Jj don't listen to anybody who calls you parnoid :wink: These people are what I call Dellusional they don't want to see what is happening :x Might upset the nice little world they've built for themselves :p Hey ITN you just go right ahead and let the goverment keep taking your rights away .We know whats happening .I learned about thiis stuff years ago and did not believe it either :wink: But you better start taking a look around there buddy .Cameras everywhere cops in black ski masks calling you citizen like their better than you some how .The western way of life is under attack and were just trying to stop it so leave your attacks for the real problem our Goverments :wink: No one is asking you to believe us do your own research .These assholes are not even trying to hide what they want to do anymore .General Tommy Franks came right out and said one more attack on US soil and THERE WILL BE MARSHAL LAW DECLARED :x

Bravo mrmom. Nice to hear a voice of reason and common sense. :thumbleft:

ya know, there is little sympathy left for the "blind" who WILL NOT see. These are the same ones that ask/whine:'Why do they "hate" us so much??" serious disconnect.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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Ocean Breeze said:
Bravo mrmom. Nice to hear a voice of reason and common sense. :thumbleft:

ya know, there is little sympathy left for the "blind" who WILL NOT see. These are the same ones that ask/whine:'Why do they "hate" us so much??" serious disconnect.

Well I have about 200 years to cover, have you got the time?
 

Ocean Breeze

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I think not said:
Ocean Breeze said:
Bravo mrmom. Nice to hear a voice of reason and common sense. :thumbleft:

ya know, there is little sympathy left for the "blind" who WILL NOT see. These are the same ones that ask/whine:'Why do they "hate" us so much??" serious disconnect.

Well I have about 200 years to cover, have you got the time?

It is so sad to see that things have evolved to this level in such a short time. Most other nations have a MUCH longer history .....and probably passed through the same phases in the course of time. 200 yrs is not much in comparison to older nations. The difference is, that the world is so interconnected now, with flash communications , and everyone is simply more aware of each other.==and events transpiring in far off places.
 

gopher

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A moral lesson for treasonous warmongering Bush loving, America haters=

A Costly Education for America
Watching neocons spin the collapse of "the Bush doctrine"
by Chris Moore
In a desperate 11th-hour bid to save face and salvage credibility amid the violent collapse of their predictions of a "cakewalk" victory over Iraq, neoconservative opinionmakers appear to be preparing to spin America's likely troop drawdown as just another stage in the fulfillment of their larger plans for the region.

"In Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, and elsewhere in the Arab world, the forces of democratic liberalization have emerged on the political stage in a way that was unimaginable just two years ago," Washington Post syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer, perhaps the most widely read neocon pundit, recently wrote on The Wall Street Journal editorial page. "They have been energized and emboldened by the Iraqi example and by American resolve."

Krauthammer's determined ignorance of an Iraq on the cusp of civil war follows the declaration by Karl Zinsmeister, the editor-in-chief of the neoconservative The American Enterprise magazine, that "the war is over, and we won."

"What the establishment media covering Iraq have utterly failed to make clear today is this central reality: With the exception of periodic flare-ups in isolated corners, our struggle in Iraq as warfare is over," Zinsmeister wrote in June. "Contrary to the impression given by most newspaper headlines, the United States has won the day in Iraq."

Backing their claims of victory with few relevant facts, Zinsmeister, Krauthammer, and other neoconservative pundits appear to be attempting to use their platforms to counter reporting that indicates the situation in Iraq is deteriorating for the American occupiers. One such article published July 27 by United Press International was titled "U.S. Plans Iraq Troop Cuts as Revolt Rages."

"The struggle against the Iraq insurgency passed a crucial tipping point Wednesday with the current prime minister calling for major U.S. troop withdrawals and the U.S. ground commander there acknowledging they will probably come next year. The commander, however, made clear he did not expect the insurgency to have dropped by then significantly below its current level," the report said.


"In Washington, well-placed military sources told UPI that 'as many as' '20,000 or 30,000' U.S. troops might be withdrawn from Iraq next year. That would bring the current force levels of around 140,000 – which many U.S. military officers privately, and most counterinsurgency experts publicly agree are already far too low to deal with the insurgency – down to only 120,000 or 110,000 troops."

There are also the reports, given more coverage in the mainstream media after the London bombings, that rather than diminishing the threat of terrorism, the invasion and occupation of Iraq have actually increased the West's vulnerability.

"We're being attacked for what we do in the Islamic world, not for who we are or what we believe in or how we live," Michael Scheuer, a retired CIA Middle Eastern specialist and author of Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terror, recently told CNN.

An American drawdown from Iraq under these circumstances would be seen in the United States and around the world as a major blow to the neoconservative school of foreign policy, which Krauthammer defines as "an unashamed assertion and deployment of American power, a resort to unilateralism when necessary, and a willingness to preempt threats before they emerge."

Which is why, in order to minimize the damage to their future ambitions for American-underwritten or -initiated military action in the Middle East, and to preserve the image of "the Bush doctrine" (which Krauthammer says is really "a synonym for neoconservative foreign policy"), the neocons are furiously spinning their way to victory in Iraq – but not necessarily out of the neighborhood.

"There are too many entrenched dictatorships and kleptocracies in the region to declare anything won," says Krauthammer, who is now pushing for "relentless and ruthless" American actions against Syria. "What we can declare, with certainty, is the falsity of those confident assurances before the Iraq war, during the Iraq war, and after the Iraq war that this project was inevitably doomed to failure because we do not know how to 'do' democracy, and they do not know how to receive it." Tough talk that doesn't square with their new (and probably wise) plans to cut and run.

But if Iraq ends up in civil war, or as a Shi'ite dictatorship with Iran as the ultimate beneficiary of America's neocon engineered project (another increasingly likely scenario), all the spinning in the world won't be able to sell Iraq as a victory for "democracy" – or to hide the failure of neoconservative foreign policy.

At nearly 2,000 American lives and $350 billion so far spent, learning that the neocons are terrible at making foreign policy assessments and dangerous when put into positions of authority is proving to be a costly American education. The additional realization that they are also dishonest historians who play fast and loose with the facts may be one of the few benefits of the expense.



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A Costly Education for America
7/30/2005

The Politics of 'Creative Destruction'
7/14/2005

'War of the Worlds'
7/2/2005

Neocons and the Cult of State
12/27/2004

Mainline Protestants Challenge Israel Lobby
12/7/2004

Chris Moore is the founder and editor of LibertarianToday.com.




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Further proof that those oppose Bush's criminal war are the REAL patriots.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Wednesday's Child said:
Um - I thought this was a Canadian forum.

Why is there so much about Americans?

It IS a Canadian forum. This segment of it is International politics........and who is the most -um- "influential" ( not constructively) on the international political scene. ?? the compass points south of the border. You know, the country that starts WARS based on lies,misinformation, disinformation and glorifies itself as a modern progressive nation.

So yes, it is fodder for much discussion, debate and angst.