I am beginning to like Chavez

[diaeagle]

Chavez has done plenty for the poor, I respect any leader who does this for his country. But, changing the constitution around to ensure he remains in power, leaves very little for me to appreciate his motives.

ok... i agree with you ... but you can see what happened in palestine ...... the new goverment have detemine her policy before election.. and it has sweeping wins.... most people says yes.....after that america and israel never accepted that election and interrupt the new hamas...
you can see israel want to remains in power like chavez and america say this is democratic but never chaviz

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

I love Hugo Chavez, he's a real person.

Of course he is, especially when he changes the constitution to ensure he remains in power. A true socialist, remove power from the people and place it where it belongs, the government.

This anti-government thing you got going on is funny, if you don't want a government running a country what do you want, let me quess that a corporate boardroom would for you be the ideal place to conduct a nations affairs.

 

[I think not]

ok... i agree with you ... but you can see what happened in palestine ...... the new goverment have detemine her policy before election.. and it has sweeping wins.... most people says yes.....after that america and israel never accepted that election and interrupt the new hamas...
you can see israel want to remains in power like chavez and america say this is democratic but never chaviz

I don't think you are making a fair comparison, if I understood you correctly. Israel has open elections and the rule of law, Chavez changed the law to suit his purpose. It isn't the same thing.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

Come on your governement is tearing apart your consitution, patriot act is a good exemple, the wire tapping is another one, actually your governement act like they are dictators , chavez look like gandhi to compare with your governement, they have incredible control on the media,

Provisions of the Patriot Act have been struck down as being unconstitutional. And the ACLU has filed a suit with the Supreme court regarding wiretapping. Can anyone do that in Venezuela?

Still patriot act is still active, and the wiretapping too, ACLU has maybe filled a suit, but it won t change anything at all, just like many other thing happen since the bush adminsitration are there, it is like a big joke.

In venuzuela, they don t have hollywood movie, to promote their agenda, you know like most of the movie that comes out from hollywood.

 

[I think not]

Poverty in Venezuela is still in the 30 to 50% range which is very high considering the country's wealth. Polls are showing that people in Venezuela are becoming a little weary of the spending spree.

This is from last weeks NYT which requires a subscription. Article is by Juan Forero

Sanch, I agree there is still poverty in Venezuela, and plenty of it, but it has become better, not as good as Chavez claimed, but better nevertheless. And I also agree he is spending money outside his country's borders to project his own image in the region and I don't agree with that, he should focus on his own people.

 

[darkbeaver]

A more interesting political model is Delegate Zero's (formerly Comandante Zero) of the Zapatistas in Chiapas. Of course this gets little attention as he focuses on indigenous rights and development which is boring to people who have to be fed a daily dose of anti-American pablum.

Where do you get your pro-American pablum, who spoon feeds it to you, and if we on the left consentrate on the worlds leading manufacturer of bullshit what of it, would you rather deal with little fish first or go after the sharks.

 

[diaeagle]

I don't think you are making a fair comparison, if I understood you correctly. Israel has open elections and the rule of law, Chavez changed the law to suit his purpose. It isn't the same thing.

ya... chavez never accept the election ... but israel had accepted election to be.... but never accepted the result...
so same result in different ways....

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

Still patriot act is still active, and the wiretapping too, ACLU has maybe filled a suit, but it won t change anything at all, just like many other thing happen since the bush adminsitration are there, it is like a big joke.

In venuzuela, they don t have hollywood movie, to promote their agenda, you know like most of the movie that comes out from hollywood.

Two provisions of the Patriot Act have been struck down as being unconstitutional because the ACLU filed a suit against the US government. Don't tell me it won't do anything at all, the wiretapping issue will have its day in court. And by the way aeon, things don't happen overnight.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

This anti-government thing you got going on is funny, if you don't want a government running a country what do you want, let me quess that a corporate boardroom would for you be the ideal place to conduct a nations affairs.

Oh I want a government running the country, I just don't want them running my life, I don't trust governments, any governments, clear enough for you?

 

[darkbeaver]

A more interesting political model is Delegate Zero's (formerly Comandante Zero) of the Zapatistas in Chiapas. Of course this gets little attention as he focuses on indigenous rights and development which is boring to people who have to be fed a daily dose of anti-American pablum.

Where do you get your pro-American pablum, who spoon feeds it to you, and if we on the left consentrate on the worlds leading manufacturer of bullshit what of it, would you rather deal with little fish first or go after the sharks.

 

[Hank C]

Hugo Chavez has rewrote the constitution to give him more power, and now he controls legislature, the supreme court, two armys, oh yea and he controls the institutions that stage elections.

Chavez has passed laws which give him the power to throw you in prison for disagreeing with his government officials. He also passed laws which allows his government to screen the content of the news media. To make things worse he uses Venezuela's oil to fund leaders from other South American nation who agree with him (as long as they hate America).

In addition to his passing of these undemocratic & fascist laws, humans rights groups such as Amnesty International and others have documented many humans rights violations, such as torture. And he has passed laws allowing for government censorship......if you were to speak against one of Chavez's cronies, he could jail you under his new revision of the criminal code.

Funny how you hold the US, Bush or Americans up to every single candle with doubt but you willfully ignore actions taken by Hugo Chavez because he is a left wing extremist who hates the US, much like yourself.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

This anti-government thing you got going on is funny, if you don't want a government running a country what do you want, let me quess that a corporate boardroom would for you be the ideal place to conduct a nations affairs.

Oh I want a government running the country, I just don't want them running my life, I don't trust governments, any governments, clear enough for you?

Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. JFK
Oh how low has the responsibility of the citizin fallen in that once proud land. If you don't trust the government of your country to take care of some of the most important things in life for you then what's the point of living there.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. JFK
Oh how low has the responsibility of the citizin fallen in that once proud land. If you don't trust the government of your country to take care of some of the most important things in life for you then what's the point of living there.

What are the most important things in life Darkbeaver? Peace, Order & Good government? Beacuse I would say you have 1 out of 3.

Or is it Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? Because none of those three has the government (beyond the framers) ever done anything to expand on it, without the intervention of the people. That's what we have done, for our country.

So you trust your government?

 

[Toro]

RE: I am beginning to lik

Interesting audio giving context to what is happening in Latin America. It lasts about 35 minutes.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5325069

 

[I think not]

Thanks for that link Toro, I ordered the book. I suspect it will be an interesting read.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. JFK
Oh how low has the responsibility of the citizin fallen in that once proud land. If you don't trust the government of your country to take care of some of the most important things in life for you then what's the point of living there.

What are the most important things in life Darkbeaver? Peace, Order & Good government? Beacuse I would say you have 1 out of 3.

Or is it Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? Because none of those three has the government (beyond the framers) ever done anything to expand on it, without the intervention of the people. That's what we have done, for our country.

So you trust your government?

No I don't trust my government, but I believe that Canadians will take control and form a government one day, what choice do I have but to work toward that end. I won't surrender to corporate rule. The government is the people, I know it's an old dream but I'm an old dreamer, and you know the old sying that you get the government that you deserve.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

No I don't trust my government, but I believe that Canadians will take control and form a government one day, what choice do I have but to work toward that end. I won't surrender to corporate rule. The government is the people, I know it's an old dream but I'm an old dreamer, and you know the old sying that you get the government that you deserve.

Ok then, why do you go after me when I said I didn't trust my government and yet you share the same feelings?

And by the way, I don't agree with your ideology, but I sincerely respect your right to believe in your dream. Just keep it up there.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: I am beginning to lik

Because I used to trust my government, but since Mullooney I have had to endure the nightmare of him and Ronald Regan singing When Irish Eyes are Smileing, and it's driven me quite mad you see. Ever since then I've had a hateon for Americans and conservatives and coporatists and christian fundamentalists and ham.

 

[Hank C]

Re: RE: I am beginning to lik

Because I used to trust my government, but since Mullooney I have had to endure the nightmare of him and Ronald Regan singing When Irish Eyes are Smileing, and it's driven me quite mad you see. Ever since then I've had a hateon for Americans and conservatives and coporatists and christian fundamentalists and ham.

I feel sorry for you :wink:


but you still havent answered my post and explained your love affair for hugo chavez

 

[jimmoyer]

Bulletin for all American Conservatives:

Let Hugo Chavez alone.

Sincerely it might be the best thing we leave alone.

As an American conservative I don't want Hugo Chavez
to use any American intervention as an excuse for any
possible failure of Chavez' policies.

Let him take Castro's mantle. Just let him.
Let him do and go where he wants.

All the way.

He needs to be judged right or wrong on Hugo Chavez'
merits, without providing him any convenient excuses.


I fear American policy cannot be sublte enough to
let this happen.

But I think it would be smart for us.

And for the world.