Human Species May Split in Two

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Vampire Immortality

VAMPIRE IMMORTALITY

All the 5 senses work better.
We think that's perfection.

And we think perfection is happiness ?
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Happiness a goal in evolution ?

Hmmm...

I don't think happiness is a goal in our evolution.

Happiness is thought of as an aside after our curiosity
forces us to go in a direction with unforseen consequences.

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However, I do see us actively consciously engineering our own evolution with
the genome project, with nano-technology.

And the purpose will be to make us supermen, superwomen.
Eradicating disease, increasing our life spans, make us more efficient.

And this last goal of making us more efficient, I see several categories:

1. get rid of memory problems
2. get rid of emotional barriers that slow us on productivity ---- that one will be weird.
3. an embedded link to a network that allows us to find answer to any question of the moment.
 

humanbeing

Electoral Member
Jul 21, 2006
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My first question posited when I read this was:

Gee which one will be more comfortable in life - more satisfied and happier?

Nobody has asked.

Gee... I've been too busy thinking about how much BS what this guy from the london school of economics said. ;)

But to try and answer your question, were the happy people with down syndrome oppressed and forced into doing things, or were their material needs unsatisfied?

Probably not. Not that these are the only things by which to measure happiness or anything, but they might be factors...

Here, in our wacky prediction, if you assume an upper class and a lower class, it probably follows that if this came to be, the class that is being exploited is the one that will be less happy, at least, when they are being exploited (if they even figure they are being exploited). Whenever the 'upper class' talked of their superior forms and abilities, it would follow that any 'lower class' who was actually bothered by such things and thought himself inferior, would be less happy, at least at that moment. I'm also assuming that this bizarre future society is much like ours, where we haven't changed ourselves too much with technology, and where many people set too high of standards for themselves (aided especially by advertising, what with the supermodels and the Joneses & all). So probably even the upper class would be uncomfortable with themselves.

But besides that, this wacko prediction from that economics school Dr. hasn't told us a great deal about what his imaginary future world will look like, so it is really hard to discern who is happy and who is not. Frick, it's hard to answer that question when you look at the our world, today, when we have it all around us to look at, where we don't need to use our imaginations. Plus, it comes down to the individual person more than anything.
 
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Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
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I think to be honest, that theory is very idealistic, for example, the bit that suggests "everyone will be coffee-coloured because of interbreeding", now, do you REALLY think that kind of a comment wont stir up a lot of shyte?.

Cus I think it will, so what your suggesting is that the darker population will slowly envelop the white's?...this sounds like "nation of islam" mantra....and a lot of people will say "not on your nelly!!".

I find fault in this because, as long as there is artificial insemination, just like smallpox, each race should be around. Also, surely with this technology we have created a way to, in fact dodge evolution and stay the same?.

I just think that is quite n unfounded article.
 

humanbeing

Electoral Member
Jul 21, 2006
265
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However, I do see us actively consciously engineering our own evolution with
the genome project, with nano-technology.

And the purpose will be to make us supermen, superwomen.
Eradicating disease, increasing our life spans, make us more efficient.

And this last goal of making us more efficient, I see several categories:

1. get rid of memory problems
2. get rid of emotional barriers that slow us on productivity ---- that one will be weird.
3. an embedded link to a network that allows us to find answer to any question of the moment.

This seems much more likely than what our silly economist from the London school predicts. I personally can't wait for 1 and 3, and some aspects of 2.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Ann Rice's Vampire novels best explore immortal-like long lives.
And explores the idea of humans having excellent perception powers in their 5 senses.

However, the weariness of a long life ?

Can only be understood by the present races of mankind who by definition have short lives.

When you're 50, you know this for sure.
 

Vereya

Council Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,003
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I don't think you can get weary of a long life. A longer life span means that you age slower, so you will have more productive years. It means that you can achieve more, you can see more, and you can get so much nore positive and interesting and fun things out of life. And having a longer life would probably mean that you won't hurry with such important events in your life, like getting an education, choosing a career or getting married. You will have more time to look around you, to think, to make a decision and to choose what is really best for you, so probably you won't make such a mess of life as many people are making nowadays.
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
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As for the selective mating part, I guess this evolution prophet hasn’t witnessed a guy in a bar when he is drunk and horny. Not all that selective when it comes to the mating.

Oh yeah, but that problem will all be wiped out by virtual reality and sex robots.
 

WilliamAshley

Electoral Member
Sep 7, 2006
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WATERLOO
As for the selective mating part, I guess this evolution prophet hasn’t witnessed a guy in a bar when he is drunk and horny. Not all that selective when it comes to the mating.

Oh yeah, but that problem will all be wiped out by virtual reality and sex robots.

Which one are your descendants?

as if people will be procreating naturally then as anything but a passtime.

genetic laws?

thou child shall have intelligence as defined by the APA and the FDA
thou child shall not have any defects which will take up tax payer dollars
thou child shall worship the government and large multinational corporations

due to labour being cruel and unusual punishment, the child cannot be born from the mother, for it would be sentances to jail for assualt causing bodily harm

thou child shall be born in the acme baby machine as supplied from both the parents dead skin, as sexual organs are premiscuous and maybe even, smutten. since god only said to multiply and said sexual acts are unclean, obviously avoiding sex completely kills two birds with one stone.

I think that this would lead to really small people able to lift large wieghts with big heads, meanwhile they would wear a hologram, to appear or sound etc.. as they would like.

humans will start to be smaller because they take less to maintain, the the extent that it is all redundant, my gosh I'm nearly insane now, I can't imagine what 3000 Ad would be like.

If I'm not alive then, what does it matter?
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
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Which one are your descendants?


Ok, I do have a sense of humour and I will like to believe that this implies you have one too.

As for the big bang that was me, I’ll have you know sir, my parents were not only awake, but more than awake. In fact, if they could have been any more cognitive, they would have conceived me with a mere thought.

And if there is a God who peeks into the private bedrooms of His or Her creations, that God would have said, “It doesn’t get any better than this.”

Now if you will please, I’ll appreciate that you get your mind out of the gutter image you probably have right now of my parents.
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
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Canada
There is another flaw I would like to add as to the evolution prophet’s theory in that he doesn’t take into account future advances in plastic surgery.

An ugly woman will be able to make herself into a very attractive woman therefore becoming quite capable of attracting an ugly man who also had advanced plastic surgery.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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Newfoundland!
.


Oh wait the majority of Evolution is BS. I forgot.

not BS. just being bypassed by the human race currently. we keep people alive who would normally die and we allow those who genetically can't reproduce to reproduce, hence the weak as well as the fit survive and evolution stops working.

Also genetics are more complex than "if my mum and dad are ugly i will be ugly too". Much more complex.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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genetic laws?

thou child shall have intelligence as defined by the APA and the FDA
thou child shall not have any defects which will take up tax payer dollars
thou child shall worship the government and large multinational corporations

due to labour being cruel and unusual punishment, the child cannot be born from the mother, for it would be sentances to jail for assualt causing bodily harm

thou child shall be born in the acme baby machine as supplied from both the parents dead skin, as sexual organs are premiscuous and maybe even, smutten. since god only said to multiply and said sexual acts are unclean, obviously avoiding sex completely kills two birds with one stone.

I think that this would lead to really small people able to lift large wieghts with big heads, meanwhile they would wear a hologram, to appear or sound etc.. as they would like.
-----------------------------------------------WilliamAshley-----------------------------------------------------

Great predictions.

That last one about wearing a hologram is priceless.
 

humanbeing

Electoral Member
Jul 21, 2006
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everyone will be coffee-coloured because of interbreeding", now, do you REALLY think that kind of a comment wont stir up a lot of shyte?.

The interbreeding part sounds bad, for sure, since there is no 'inter' necessary, as we are all very closely related, regardless of skin colour and other typical markers of race, and we are all very much from from the same race.

Anyhow, I thought about that for a second, then I realized that one time a short while ago, I was babysitting my young cousin and he wanted to watch South Park.

So we watches the show, and it's an episode about US immigrants from the future coming to US of the present, getting jobs, banking their cash, and becoming rich in the future. Soon the entire town is flooded by immigrants from the future... Anyways, what is one characteristic of these immigrants from the future? They are all coffee coloured due to mixing of the 'races'.

South Park beat this economist by at least a year or two (maybe more, depending on how old that episode was).

edit: here is the episode in brief detail, by the way
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goobacks

(PS it shows a picture of what the coffee-coloured humans from the future will look like when they are about to get run over by a car)
 
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sha_zapple

Nominee Member
Jan 26, 2006
76
0
6
haha....de-evolution? I thought we were only supose to get better. Like grow extra fingers and maybe wings or something....

Oh wait the majority of Evolution is BS. I forgot.

The article is definitly mostly full of crap, but no one claims evolution 'makes you better'. It adapts you to your particular situation. 'Better' is relative
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
141
63
Backwater, Ontario.
evolvin to the nth.

Ah thank thet we done split inta a buncha branches alreddy lak. Lak, it don take but tooo er three generabatins fer genetek stuff ta happen eh.

Roun theees parts ma kin started as retards way bak wen, an stedilly bred fer looks n brayns. Over the dekades ah am proud ta saye, ah am the result of improvin genetiks. Ah hav mor then tooo teeff, got tooo ies sted of one, an ma hiQ is lak almos a hunnerd.......give er take eh.

So, hit do foller thet ma chillin is on the verg of a hiQ brakethru, an maye get offn welfair yet eh. Ifn not, theys chillin mite fer sure eh.

Ah ken c a fuw yeers dawn th lan, a doktor er a lawer, er maybee evun a plummer if wer luckee, in ar familee.

Thangs is a lookin up fer sur.

D'ugg.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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more on evolution --- our evolution into a new species...


human nature
Full-Mental Nudity
The arrival of mind-reading machines.
By William Saletan
Updated Tuesday, March 20, 2007, at 5:02 AM ET




Years ago, Woody Allen used to joke that he'd been thrown out of college as a freshman for cheating on his metaphysics final. "I looked within the soul of the boy sitting next to me," he confessed.

Today, the joke is on us. Cameras follow your car, GPS tracks your cell phone, software monitors your Web surfing, X-rays explore your purse, and airport scanners see through your clothes. Now comes the final indignity: machines that look into your soul.
With the aid of functional magnetic resonance imaging, neuroscientists have been hard at work on Allen's fantasy. Under controlled conditions, they can tell from a brain scan which of two images you're looking at. They can tell whether you're thinking of a face, an animal, or a scene. They can even tell which finger you're about to move.
But those feats barely scratch the brain's surface. Any animal can perceive objects and move limbs. To plumb the soul, you need a metaphysician. John-Dylan Haynes, a brilliant researcher at Germany's Bernstein Center for Computational Neuroscience, is leading the way. His mission, according to the center, is to predict thoughts and behavior from fMRI scans.
Haynes, a former philosophy student, is going for the soul's jugular. He's trying to clarify the physical basis of free will. "Why do we shape intentions in this way or another way?" he wonders. "Your wishes, your desires, your goals, your plans—that's the core of your identity." The best place to look for that core is in the brain's medial prefrontal cortex, which, he points out, is "especially involved in the initiation of willed movements and their protection against interference."
To get a clear snapshot of free will, Haynes designed an experiment that would isolate it from other mental functions. No objects to interpret; no physical movements to anticipate or execute; no reasoning to perform. Participants were put in an fMRI machine and were told they would soon be shown the word "select," followed a few seconds later by two numbers. Their job was to covertly decide, when they saw the "select" cue, whether to add or subtract the unseen numbers. Then, they were to perform the chosen calculation and punch a button corresponding to the correct answer. The snapshot was taken right after the "select" cue, when they had nothing to do but choose addition or subtraction.
Until this experiment, which was reported last month in Current Biology, nobody had ever tried to take a picture of free will. One reason is that fMRI is too crude to distinguish one abstract choice from another. It can only show which parts of the brain are demanding blood oxygen. That's too coarse to distinguish the configuration of cells that signifies addition from the configuration that signifies subtraction. So, Haynes used software to help the computer recognize complex patterns in the data. To dissect human thought, the computer had to emulate it.
Each participant took the test more than 250 times, choosing independently in each trial. The computer then looked at a sample of the scans, along with the final answers that revealed what choices had actually been made. It calculated a pattern and used this pattern to predict, from each participant's remaining scans, his or her decisions in the corresponding trials. Haynes checked the predictions—add or subtract—against the participants' answers. The computer got it right 71 percent of the time.
I know what you're thinking: Why would anyone want a machine to read his mind? But imagine being paralyzed, unable to walk, type, or speak. Imagine a helmet full of electrodes, or a chip implanted in your head, that lets your brain tell your computer which key to press. Those technologies are already here. And why endure the agony of mental hunt-and-peck? Why not design computers that, like a smart secretary, can discern and execute even abstract intentions? That's what Haynes has in mind. You want to open a folder or an e-mail, and your computer does it. Your wish is its command.
But if machines can read your mind when you want them to, they can also read it when you don't. And your will isn't necessarily the one they obey. Already, scans have been used to identify brain signatures of disgust, drug cravings, unconscious racism, and suppressed sexual arousal, not to mention psychopathy and propensity to kill.
Haynes understands the objection to these scans—he calls it "mental privacy"—but he buys only half of it. He doesn't like the idea of companies scanning job applicants for loyalty or scanning customers for reactions to products (an emerging practice known as neuromarketing). But where criminal justice is at stake, as in the case of lie detection, he's for using the technology. Ruling it out, he argues, would "deny the innocent people the ability to prove their innocence" and would "only protect the people who are guilty."
I hear what he's saying. I'd love to have put Khalid Sheikh Mohammed through an fMRI before Sept. 11, 2001, instead of waiting six years for his confession. And I wish we'd scanned Mohamed Atta's brain before he boarded that flight out of Boston. But what Haynes is saying—and exposing—is almost more terrifying than terrorism. The brain is becoming just another accessible body part, searchable for threats and evidence. We can sift through your belongings, pat you down, study your nude form through your clothes, inspect your body cavities, and, if necessary, peer into your mind.
FMRI is just the first stage. Electrodes, infrared spectroscopy, and subtler magnetic imaging are next. Scanners will shrink. Image resolution and pattern-recognition software will improve.
But don't count out free will. To make human choice predictable, you first have to constrain it so that it's not really free. That's why Haynes confined his participants to arithmetic, gave them only two options, and forbade them to change their minds. They could have wrecked his experiment by defying any of those conditions. So could you, if somebody came at you with a scanner or an electrode helmet. To look into your soul and get the right answer, science, too, has to cheat. Somewhere, Woody Allen is laughing. I can feel it.
A version of this article also appears in the Outlook section of the Sunday Washington Post.
William Saletan is Slate's national correspondent and author of Bearing Right: How Conservatives Won the Abortion War.

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