How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

L Gilbert

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As I said, sharing not browbeating. No, I am afraid that part of the Great Commission is the spreading of the Gospel. Lots of people share their faith in evangelization methods, from the saffron robed chaps at airports to the JW's coming to the door. Personally, I believe the most effective means of evangelization is through example.
........ even when other people are content with their own idea of things. Yeah, I know. People seem to have a habit of wanting to fix things in other people's lives, even when what they intend on fixing isn't broken.
 

L Gilbert

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I must say my friend, in the past two days you have surprised me. First with your contention that all faiths are equal in merit and now with this numerology mumbo-jumbo. I think the Scriptures are difficult enough for people to discern without adding these secret codes into them. Numbers do play a significance into certain elements of the Scriptures, to a point But drawing conclusions based on combinations of numbers from anything is suspicious exegesis at best.
Playing with numbers (numerology) has been around a long time, like phrenology. :D
 

L Gilbert

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Also always remember that the "7" day, the "Sabbath" is the day you rests your minds from the daily routine and listen to the Prophets, not just the one "Prophet", but the Prophets around you...

How do we know they're a true Prophet, they'll know, and they'll understand the "Prophet's" words and be able to make sense out of them. God will show them the way...
........ or not.
 

L Gilbert

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Right here my friend is something that God did for us, you and I.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And how do I know that? Because the bible tells me so.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
That doesn't back up your statement that your god must do things. And, again I say if your god is obligated to do things, it cannot be all-powerful. Where in the bible does it say that your god must do anything?
 

L Gilbert

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Here is where spiritual understanding comes in.
In short, I mean very short, here it is:
The Father created the worlds and the first man Adam which is the flesh. The creation of the flesh meant separation from the spirit of God. Separation in spirit means death to the spirit, thus His creation was created with a death sentence.

Enter: (that one verse I just gave you John 3:16?) Jesus, He comes and rectifies the death penalty for all, I mean all mankind from the very first man to the very last one.

The self same pattern or structure used in the first creation is used in the second creation in order to nullify the first so that the second one stands.

Hence Jesus is the "second" Adam. Or the start of the new creation which this time instead of death it is life!

Now, as for the only path, quote: :read2:Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Is correct by the account that I gave you in the above explanation.

If you bare with me a little more I will tell explain to you how that works.
Since God selected a race of people to justify His laws to mankind by, they became the only true "link" to the real God of creation. All other folks gods and supposed gods were merely were figments of mans imaginations.

God in them demonstrated to the world His "long-suffering and love for them by constantly forgiving them their trespasses. If you read the old testament you will find this pattern to be true.

God's design is to save the "whole" world, not just the selected race, the Jews.

Since the Jewish nation had as a priestly function of the offering of animal sacrifices, God uses it to "offer" His Son for in mankind's place in order to nullify the penalty of death in all of us.

He purposely blinded the hearts of the Jews not to recognize Jesus as the Son of God thereby rejecting Him as a blasphemer and worthy of death, as prescribed by the laws given to Moses.

Following me so far?

The Jewish High Priest are the one's who offered sacrifices for their people for the covering of sins, notice I said covering and not forgiveness of sins?

Well, here is the sweet part of the whole design plan.

Jesus comes to His own and His own receive Him Not.

They being the ones to offer sacrifices, offer Jesus as a sacrifice, unbeknown to them why.

By that offering (by the way is what the is point of contention is between believer and non-believer is all about) salvation comes to all mankind regardless of who or what we are.

That rendition is the shortest that I could explain it in unless you believe , trust and rely on the one single verse I quoted in John 3:16, that would be the shortest.

I am open to any questions concerning what I explained if some one cares to venture passed their comfort zone.

Peace and Love>>>AJ:love9:
Yet again you dodge the question, which was, if the only way to get to the Christian god is through Yeshua, the how can YOU claim to lead people to this god?
 

sanctus

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Playing with numbers (numerology) has been around a long time, like phrenology. :D

I know, but frankly I think it is just silly. Yes, in some cases numbers have significance. For example, the choosing of 12 Apostles to represent the twelve tribes is a long known metaphor/symbolism.

But this ideology that secret codes exist in the Bible is, frankly and as I have already stated, just silly.
 

sanctus

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What archeological evidence?

Archeological Evidence
There is considerable archeological evidence demonstrating that the books of Scripture were in circulation thousands of years ago, with the same wording as today.
Recently archeologists found jewelry and pottery buried in nine caves across the Hinnom Valley near the southern walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. These treasures were dated some 2,600 years ago, and contained exact wording from Numbers 6:24-26: "The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace."
When you take into account the small size of the nation of Israel, the amount of archeological evidence is quite significant. In comparison to the giant political powers of Assyria, Egypt and Mesopotamia, Israel was tiny. If not for the demonstrations of God's power which were well known throughout the region, this minute country would probably have been completely ignored in the surviving literature of the great empires.
Fortunately, there are many historical records regarding events that involved the Israelites. What continually amazes many researchers is that every time a new discovery is made, it supports rather than discredits the biblical accounts. To this date, not one biblical event has been proven wrong, while many have been confirmed by historical evidence. New archeological discoveries are made every month which verify biblical accounts.
Battles and wars
Monoliths found in Iraq inscribed by King Shalmaneser III mention King Jehu, Omri, and "Ahab the Israelite." Another chronicles a tribute given to Tiglath-Pileser III by king Menahem. A building inscription, also by Tiglath-Pileser III dating 734BC refers to a tribute from king Ahaz. A stela found in Jordan dating to 830BC refers to a tribute which Omri had to pay to Mesha king of Moab.
An inscription in modern-day Iraq (then Assyria) from 722BC refers to the conquering of Samaria and the exile of Israelites to Assyria. It indicates that 27,900 inhabitants were captured by Sargon II. Sennacherib referred to Hezekiah's refusal to surrender and the subsequent siege of Jerusalem. He indicates that he laid siege to 46 cities and drove out over 200,000 people.
The Tower of Babel
One of the most astonishing archeological finds has been the base of the so-called "Tower of Babel" in Babylon (just south of Baghdad). According to the inscription on the base of the remains of a tower, "A former king built [this tower], they reckon 42 ages past, but he did not complete its head. Since a remote time, people had abandoned it, without order expressing their words." Note the reference to the confusion of their language. We know from Genesis 11:2-8 that God scattered the people by confusing their language.
Joseph
Other archeological records dating to about 1500BC refer to the seven years of good and seven years of famine in Egypt. One of them specifically refers to Joseph, who it claims was in charge of distributing grain to the people, just as the Bible records in Genesis 41:47-57.
The exodus
On the shores of the Red Sea, at Wadi Sidri on the west side of the Sinai is a huge inscription written in a curious combination of Egyptian hieroglyphics and Hebrew letters. This inscription which covers a wall of stone about 100 feet high, was already considered ancient by historian Diodorus Siculus in 10BC. It relates the story of the miraculous crossing by the Israelites over a divided sea, followed by the mighty army of pharaoh submerged in the sea as the waters returned. The story is identical to the biblical account from Exodus 14:21-28.
Other inscriptions at Wadi Sidri and Kibroth-hattaavah refer to the biblical accounts of the venomous snakes in the Sinai desert, the plaque brought upon the people when they ate raw quail meat, and Miriam's near-mutiny of Moses. The lost Pishon river mentioned in the account of the Garden of Eden but regarded by many to be a myth has just been identified using infrared satellite technology. In 1997 a fossilized snake was discovered with fully developed hind legs, confirming the biblical account in Genesis that snakes originally had legs.
New Testament evidence
As for the New Testament, many archeological records confirm those accounts as well. The bones of a crucified man were discovered--the first of their kind--showing not only that the practice existed but that both feet were pierced from the sides, just below the ankle bone, rather than from the top as was generally thought. Ossuaries dating to the first century AD are inscribed with the names of many people mentioned in the New Testament and often with the sign of the cross or the name of Jesus. An ossuary of Matthias, dating to 40AD (less than 10 years after Christ) contains the inscription "Jesus is Jehovah (God)."
References to many people once regarded as myths by archeologists--such as Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas the high priest, and others--have since been discovered in archeological inscriptions.
 

sanctus

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What archeological evidence?

more for you on this same question:

Many people these days suggest that the biblical records were changed over time. The assumption is understandable. Any ordinary letter or book copied again and again for thousands of years is likely to change quite dramatically during that time.
However, the biblical records, and in particular the Jewish Torah, were not copied in a haphazard fashion. The process was so accurate it still amazes historians today. For thousands of years, Jewish scribes carefully copied the original manuscripts of sacred Scriptures without any significant error.
The Masoretic Jewish scribes were so careful that they counted the number of occurrences of every single letter, comparing that count to the "official" count. When a scribe completed his copy, a master examiner would painstakingly count every individual letter to confirm that there were no errors in the newly copied manuscript. This process was so accurate they could pinpoint the exact middle of a book simply by letter count and would check the verse at that point as one of the methods of confirmation. If a single error was found, the entire manuscript was destroyed to ensure that it could never be used as a master copy in the future.
As proof of this accuracy, consider the Masoretic and Yemenite translations of the Torah. Some time ago, the Yemenite Jews were separated from their brother Jews in the Middle East and Europe. Despite a thousand years of copying their manuscripts in isolation, only nine Hebrew letters in the entire Torah were found to differ from the accepted Hebrew Masoretic text. Not one of these nine changes the meaning of a word.
Another example is the remarkable accuracy of the Dead Sea Scrolls compared with what were then the oldest-known manuscripts. At the time these records were found in a cave at Qumran near the Dead Sea, the oldest original manuscript on record dated around 1200AD. Suddenly a number of documents were found dating between 250BC and 70AD. Although there was a thousand-year time difference between the previously used manuscripts and the newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls versions, the only changes were different spellings of words, none of them altering any meanings!
One of these scrolls, which remained unpublished until 1991, specifically refers to the Jewish Messiah who was crucified for the sins of the people. It makes reference to prophecies about the Messiah being pierced and wounded (from Isaiah), but refers in the past tense to the crucified Jesus (the name Jesus isn't mentioned). Though not a piece of Scripture, this document dates back to within a few years of the actual crucifixion, thus providing confirmation of the accuracy of the New Testament records about the death of Jesus.
Archeological records provide additional evidence of the accurate translation process used by the Masoretic Jews (the name refers to the word for "fence"). Inscriptions dating as far back as 600BC use the exact wording as today's Hebrew Torah when Scripture passages are quoted. In addition, Old Testament books were frequently quoted by other historical documents such as the Maccabbean account of 167BC and the Dead Sea Scrolls dating between 250BC and 70AD. The entire Old Testament was translated into Greek, the world's language of trade, around 250BC.
No delay
It is now acknowledged that the New Testament Gospels and Epistles were written and widely circulated within 40 or 50 years of the events they describe. Circumstantial evidence alone dated them only a few years after Christ because such explosive events as Nero's massive persecution of Christians (AD64), the martyrdom of James (AD61) and Peter (AD65), the outcome of Paul's trial (AD64) and the destruction of Jerusalem by General Titus in AD70 are not included in the accounts.
Early Christian writers such as Clement writing in AD96 quote heavily from the New Testament books. This means that the books were already in wide circulation by that time. Indeed, the books written by the apostles Paul and Peter quote creeds and hymns that were in common usage which demonstrate a common understanding of Christian doctrine during the mid part of the first century--just 20 years since the death and resurrection of Christ. The events recorded were verifiable and recent. Hundreds of thousands of people who witnessed those events or knew of them were alive to agree with or discredit the biblical accounts.
In 1994, Dr. Carsten Peter Thiede, Director of the Institute of Basic Epistemological Research in Paderborn, Germany, used a scanning laser microscope to examine a group of papyrus fragments containing 24 lines in Greek of chapter 26 of Matthew's gospel. Dr. Thiede compared details as small as twenty micrometers (millionth of a meter) to four other known references from the first century. He concluded that the Magdalen Papyrus were either an original from Matthew's gospel, or an immediate copy, written while Matthew and the other disciples and eye witnesses were still alive. The text of these fragments is identical to modern copies of Matthew.
No errors recognized
In fact, if the New Testament recorded any factual errors, the early church would have split as the witnesses to the "real" historical events would have contested any inaccurate records. There would be hundreds, perhaps thousands of contradictory accounts. Although Christians were subject to the most terrifying tortures and martyrdom conceivable, they did not declared that the Gospel account of Jesus Christ was in error. Romans charged with torturing and executing Christians, such as Pliny, claimed that weak Christians (to avoid torture or death) never renounced the accuracy of the stories about Christ, just their commitment to the faith. Pliny noted in a letter to Emperor Trajan that true Christians could not be made to renounce their faith in Jesus Christ as God, even under "extreme torture."
 

marygaspe

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In the past 30 years or so, a surprising number of bible stoires have turned up with evidence to support their accuracy. I watch many programmes on this.
 

look3467

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Faith! Faith in God! My man! It takes faith!
Without it it is as you say POINTLESS!

Argue all you want against it, for it is pointless.

My faith points to God!

Consider the man called Saul of Tarsus: He had no faith in this new religion of Jesus.

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Act 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Note: The expression “to kick against the prick” is derived from the action of a stubborn and unyielding ox kicking against the goad. And as the ox would injure no one by it but himself; as he would gain nothing, it comes to denote “an obstinate and refractory disposition and course of conduct, resisting the authority of him who has a right to command, and opposing the leadings of Providence, to the injury of him who makes the resistance.” It denotes “rebellion against lawful authority, and thus getting into greater difficulty by attempting to oppose the commands to duty.” This is the condition of every sinner. If people wish to be happy, they should cheerfully submit to the authority of God. They should not rebel against his dealings. They should not complain against their Creator. They should not resist the claims of their consciences. By all this they only injure themselves. No man can resist God or his own conscience and be happy. People evince this temper in the following ways:
(1) By violating plain laws of God.
(2) by attempting to resist his claims.
(3) by refusing to do what their conscience requires.
(4) by attempting to free themselves from serious impressions and alarms.
(5) by pursuing a course of vice and wickedness against what they know to be right.
(6) by refusing to submit to the dealings of Providence. And,
(7) In any way by opposing God, and refusing to submit to his authority, and to do what is right. >>>Bible commentary Barnes

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

A complete 180 from: a non-believer to a believer and servant.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Saul heart was transformed and his name changed to Paul.

He became the Apostle to the Gentiles.

And here we see that the Gentiles: Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Have faith: Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For those of you who are on the verge of having your hearts sprinkled with the grace of God, that your hearts be transformed into a new man, a new creature as sons of God.

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Without all these words from God, the whole thing of life is POINTLESS!

Your right Gilbert, life is pointless without God!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:









 

look3467

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Dec 13, 2006
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I know, but frankly I think it is just silly. Yes, in some cases numbers have significance. For example, the choosing of 12 Apostles to represent the twelve tribes is a long known metaphor/symbolism.

But this ideology that secret codes exist in the Bible is, frankly and as I have already stated, just silly.

Silly? At first it may seem silly, brother, but serious when you think about God's works.

Nothing is silly when God displays His Wisdom. :read2:Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

They’re there for us to seek them out, the wonderful works of God.

:read2:James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

A wise man knoweth the works of God.

:read2:Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
because, the spiritual things can only be discerned spiritually.

:read2:Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Multiplied visions = meaning in numbers i.e. 12 Apostles x 12 = 144 x 1,000 = 144,000.
Similitude’s = meaning as like, or a picture of something future i.e. Noah, Abraham Moses as a type of Jesus.

:read2:Ecc 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Here doubled = 2,000.

To the serious student of the word, all theses things are not silly: silly only to those who take Gods mysteries not serious.

Peace>>>AJ:love9: