House Votes 403 to 3 to Reject Iraq Pullout

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: House Votes 403 to 3

You'll leave Iraq the same way you left Vietnam, ITN. I've seen this movie before before. The soundtack for the original was better, and the main characters were better actors, but it's got the same plot and the ending will be the same.

Rev, we will not leave Iraq till we get the job done. We need to ensure the Iraqis have trained forces necessary to defend their country against the terrorists. Once this is done, we can leave. Leaving now would serve no purpose other than to have us put our effort, the innocent civilian casualties and our troop casualties all in vain.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: House Votes 403 to 3

You'll leave Iraq when the domestic political pressure forces you to, just like Vietnam. You'll make an ever bigger mess though because you have an even stupider president listening to even meaner advisors.

 

[Karlin]

Re: Caliph threat fear-mongering by Rumsfeld

Today on the news, Rumsfeld said:
"We are dealing with a global war on terror, with people who are determined to establish a CALIPHATE"

Caliph is that long lost idea of a single global Islamic body with one leader, a Caliphe.

Caliph Definition [Wiki] -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate#How_the_Caliphate_Came_to_an_End


Here is explained reasons why it won't happen aytime soon that Islam establishes a Caliph - [Islam is fragmented]
"Political Islam"
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/politics/espo.html

But, as Rumsfled said, that is what America is fighting.
Was he fomenting hatred against Muslims, is it fear mongering to get support for the contiinued War in Iraq?

In any case, it is NOT about keeping us safe from a Caliph.

There is no Caliph threat.

 

[Summer]

Of course the bushcons et al rejected it. They have no intentions of leaving Iraq for a very long time. So many prisons to build, so many army bases to build, so much oil to control/ influence or steal, more people to kill. So many more victims to torture. Heck their job is far from done. :evil: :twisted:

sarcasm intended.

this is no surprise. Did ya really think YOUR" gov't" ( and that is being kind) would listen to the people??? or be in tune with the changing tides??? Hell no.........."stay the stupid course.." says the stupid man.

ya know .......even explorers in historical days , would change their course as the situation warranted it. Navigation intelligently is also being adaptable, flexible and receptive to new input./ facts. (or the revisitation of old facts) Every course of action demands constant assessment and adjustment.

so "stay the course" is meaningless........particularly when the navigator refuses to DEFINE the course. Nothing but a catch phrase for parroting by the sheeple.

OC, just because you disagree does not make the process illegitimate. The American House of Representatives are elected every two years, so they are very attuned to the wishes of the people.

Only slightly more than one half of Congress is Republican, so you have Americans of ALL stripes supporting the President's course.

Colpy, I read through the news item. The issue and vote as given doesn't at all show that "Americans of all stripes support the President's course" and I'll tell you why:

1. Congress is not made up of all Americans; it is made up of politicians elected BY Americans. Yes, Americans of all stripes do elect these members of Congress, but it's still not accurate to paint Congress as being equivalent to a cross-section of America, for a variety of economic, social and other reasons.

2. The resolution, as described, does not indicate a clear issue of "for or against" the Resident's policy, and also does not match the view that has been espoused by clear thinkers such as Murtha. I myself would not vote in favor of an immediate pullout were such pullout to be done in such a way as to disregard the safety of the troops or at least a modicum of transitional change in order to promote stability in the region.

3. A vote against pistachio ice cream is in no way to be construed as a vote in favor of Rocky Road. There are more than two options involved, just as there are more than two positions available on the Iraq conflict. It is entirely possible to oppose a headlong retreat with no organization and yet also oppose an indefinite stay with no hope of ever leaving Iraq to the Iraqis.

With all due respect, your above opinion combined with a full cup of Tide wouldn't do the laundry.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: House Votes 403 to 3

and reason number 4...the Democrats made sure that they called it a stunt, then voted for it as a way to move on to better legislation.

 

[jimmoyer]

I think both parties in Congress are concerned about the same thing in Iraq: not making it worse.

I think we've come to that point in time that the Americans are assured of no longer being able to pilot the course of history over there between the Tigris and Euphrates ---- if we ever ultimately could.

We created a change that probably would have happened 5 to 10 years later upon Saddam's death.

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: House Votes 403 to 3

and reason number 4...the Democrats made sure that they called it a stunt, then voted for it as a way to move on to better legislation.

Actually, the Dems called it a stunt - which it was - and voted largely against it (only 3 people voted for it).

 

[Ocean Breeze]

We created a change that probably would have happened 5 to 10 years later upon Saddam's death.

no, not the case at all. There is no way of knowing what the quality of the change would have been if SH was leader until he died. things were changing in Iraq. SH was planning on going with the Euro. So the dynamic would have started to change with that move.

sadly.......what the US "created" is a mess.......

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: House Votes 403 to 3

That's what I meant, Summer. I didn't word it very well. The point is that the Republicans introduced a bill in order for that bill to fail. It was a piece of dirty politicking and the Republicans should be ashamed of themselves for doing such a thing.

 

[Summer]

Some of you have only the shallowest, most rudimentary understanding of what's going on in Iraq and you've uncritically bought the U.S. government's official line. I doubt you'll believe or even understand a word of what follows, but I'll try to lay it out for you anyway. [... merciful snippage for space ...] The idea that Islamic fundamentalists can sweep into power across the Middle East, Talibanize it, and fight a successful holy war (jihad) against the West is as dumb as the notion that the United States can permanently be the global vigilante. The danger (credit to Gwynne Dyer for this one) is not that marginal extremists will dominate the future, it's that they'll do a lot of damage to everybody's future before they go down.
[remainder snipped]

You know, Dexter, I think you're spot on, here. My fiance - who has a history degree - was reading your post over my shoulder just now, and he agrees.

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: House Votes 403 to 3

That's what I meant, Summer. I didn't word it very well. The point is that the Republicans introduced a bill in order for that bill to fail. It was a piece of dirty politicking and the Republicans should be ashamed of themselves for doing such a thing.

Bingo, quite, precisely!

(And I thought that might have been what you were getting at originally, but I couldn't be sure, and felt compelled to clarify.)

 

[no1important]

RE: House Votes 403 to 3

Iraqi leaders call for pullout timetable

CAIRO — Reaching out to the Sunni Arab community, Iraqi leaders called for a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces and said Iraq's opposition had a "legitimate right" of resistance.

The communique -- finalized by Shiite, Kurdish and Sunni leaders Monday -- condemned terrorism but was a clear acknowledgment of the Sunni position that insurgents should not be labeled as terrorists if their operations do not target innocent civilians or institutions designed to provide for the welfare of Iraqi citizens.


I personally feel the US will leave when they dam well feel like it and don't care what the Iraqui's have to say about it. They want their military bases there and oil first.