Hopelessly Enslaved by Democracy

[zenfisher]

I agree in an ideal world higher education should be free. ( I do not include mandatory service in the military as a viable alternative.) At this point in time that is unlikely to happen.Hence my distinction between knowledge and a formal education.



What you are asking right now, of the people that work 12 to 16 hours a day, is (through taxation) pay for your( and others) education. How is that fair to them ? Not only do they end up as perpetual servants, but those who achieve a degree are then put in a position of becoming their bosses and managers,et al. While your ideals are lofty...you end up contributing to the very problem you espouse you loathe. There are ways to achieve knowledge on the cheap. Work in bookstores, libraries, universities,colleges, research facilities. The knowledge is there and you can receive(although in many cases paltry) a paycheck. You may not have the best jobs in these situations but, you will have access to knowledge.

The beauty of a library is ...if you are working 12-16 hour days is that you can take a great deal of the information home.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The beauty of a library is ...if you are working 12-16 hour days is that you can take a great deal of the information home.

Plus there's always the chance of being seduced on a pile of books. 8)

 

[mrmom2]

Not all knowledge comes from books .I prefer hands on myself.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

I prefer someone else's hands on me.

 

[mrmom2]

Agreed :lol:

 

[Gordon J Torture]

What you are asking right now, of the people that work 12 to 16 hours a day is (through taxation) pay for your( and others) education. How is that fair to them ?

Actually, I am asking that for now, only the wealthy experience an increased tax burden, and gradually a limit eventually be put on maximum aloud difference between the average lowest and highest incomes in the country. I am asking for a completely reformed government and the eventual nationalization of all corporations and profit sharing in large industrial enterprises, further progressing toward harmony while maintaining and improving upon a quality of life superior to that of anywhere else in the world.

I am asking for low incomes to be be increased significantly, and the extremely high incomes, decreased even more significantly while maintaining an otherwise similar overall style of life as current, and increasing the rate of immigration into Canada. A progressive, yet subtle at first, anti-American propaganda campaign which in cohesion with much of Europe will also play a role in certain processes as global hatred toward Americans will unfortunately, yet inevitably continue to increase significantly.

Marijuana would be made completely legal, thus attracting a huge swarm of novelty immigration and tourism, as circumstances allow us certain privileges, which are currently unavailable. I am asking to eliminate all incomes of healthy, able bodied individuals unearned by work or the current pursuit of knowledge.

I am asking to take advantage of the increased international oil prices, which when combined with advances in extractive technologies, will continue to make it economically viable to accelerate removal of the oil trapped in the "tar sands" of northern Alberta. More and more Countries will then consider Canada in its search for stable sources of crude oil, including China in order to fuel its rapidly expanding economy. Thus, the US will be left virtually empty handed. Canadian refineries will be created as needed, as Canada will then benefit in multiple ways from the operation. This must be a gradual process over years, while simultaneously, the evolution of free high level education for all Canadian citizens, will gradually progress respectively.

 

[Jay]

Please explain how one is to achieve a useful level of knowledge while also trying to earn a living

http://www.athabascau.ca/

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Jay, that comment was actually in reference to learning from free sources of information such as libraries and such. That link provides no solutions that have not already been discussed and disproved.

 

[I think not]

What you are asking right now, of the people that work 12 to 16 hours a day is (through taxation) pay for your( and others) education. How is that fair to them ?

Actually, I am asking that for now, only the wealthy experience an increased tax burden, and gradually a limit eventually be put on maximum aloud difference between the average lowest and highest incomes in the country. I am asking for a completely reformed government and the eventual nationalization of all corporations and profit sharing in large industrial enterprises, further progressing toward harmony while maintaining and improving upon a quality of life superior to that of anywhere else in the world.

Would you mind elaborating on this part? Low and high income examples?

I am asking for low incomes to be be increased significantly, and the extremely high incomes, decreased even more significantly while maintaining an otherwise similar overall style of life as current, and increasing the rate of immigration into Canada.

Why increase immigration if I may ask?

A progressive, yet subtle at first, anti-American propaganda campaign which in cohesion with much of Europe will also play a role in certain processes as global hatred toward Americans will unfortunately, yet inevitably continue to increase significantly.

Well you already got your wish on this point.

Marijuana would be made completely legal, thus attracting a huge swarm of novelty immigration and tourism, as circumstances allow us certain privileges, which are currently unavailable.

Like Amsterdam?

I am asking to eliminate all incomes of healthy, able bodied individuals unearned by work or the current pursuit of knowledge.

Why?

I am asking to take advantage of the increased international oil prices, which when combined with advances in extractive technologies, will continue to make it economically viable to accelerate removal of the oil trapped in the "tar sands" of northern Alberta.

You already started doing that, its in its infancy, but nevertheless

More and more Countries will then consider Canada in its search for stable sources of crude oil, including China in order to fuel its rapidly expanding economy. Thus, the US will be left virtually empty handed.

Seems like your big obstacle in your theories is the US, rings a bell throughout history.

Canadian refineries will be created as needed, as Canada will then benefit in multiple ways from the operation. This must be a gradual process over years, while simultaneously, the evolution of free high level education for all Canadian citizens, will gradually progress respectively.

Here's a jump start, knock yourself out. MIT free Education

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Mike, we already went over that my friend. Try reading the entire thread before you reply next time.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Actually, Amsterdam is different, and most of your questions have been answered elsewhere in this thread.

 

[I think not]

Actually, Amsterdam is different, and most of your questions have been answered elsewhere in this thread.

I didnt see examples of low and high income levels, and you didnt comment on the open courses offered by MIT. And you didn't say anything as to why immigration should be increased nor why the healthy should be deprived of "non-earned" income

 

[Jay]

Jay, that comment was actually in reference to learning from free sources of information such as libraries and such. That link provides no solutions that have not already been discussed and disproved.

Whereas that might be the case, This link provides an avenue for ppl who work to obtain an education.

 

[zenfisher]

Good luck with that GJT, but I don't think your going to be PM anytime soon. I don't think you will be able to maintain a government where corporations are all managed by the government. If you think there are corporate handouts now...wait until that happens.

 

[Sy]

Re: RE: Hopelessly Enslaved by Democracy

I don't think you will be able to maintain a government where corporations are all managed by the government. If you think there are corporate handouts now...wait until that happens.

I agree 100%.

Any government that wishes to control all forms and actions of corporations is, for lack of a better word, communist.
I agree that there may be some benefits for the people but our country as a whole will suffer because no CEO of any corporation will build in a country where they have to relinquish control of their own hard-earned processes.

Gordon, you keep claiming the people are being screwed by big corporations and therefore governments should exact their power to protect the people. However any and all corporations are run through and through by people as well. A CEO is no less human than a mailroom clerk. They just have different goals they need to meet.

Try looking at it from the shoes of the CEO: If you managed to bring your small start-up business to international status through your own choices, plans and decision making would you really want to go to a country where you are FORCED to let someone else decide your company's future? I know I wouldn't. And I also wouldn't appreciate, after creating hundreds of jobs in any particular country, being taxed out of business because the people I choose to employ think they deserve better. It is the business of the owner to decide what salaries people get in their own business and if his business is doing well enough then obviously the owners salary will be exponentially higher than anyone whom he employs.

Now I realize my right-wing views here, but when it comes to big business that's really are there is. A focus solely on the bottom line and keeping shareholders happy always takes precedence over virtually any other aspect...even over the type of quality of the products and services.

There are many companies that make it through different forms of keeping employees and the community they work in happy but rarely do they receive international recognition because they are more focused on staying smaller and improving the lives of people around them.

You seem to focus more on the biggest ones that are driven solely by money. And I agree this isn't how life should be, but that is how economics work and in economics a bigger bottom line always trumps the suffering of any person or people.

 

[I think not]

Well said again Sy, you're on a roll

I would like to add there isn't a far cry between Socialism and Communism. They weren't called Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for nothing. An analogy would be as the Rev says, it's not a big leap between middle class and the rich.

 

[Andygal]

they CALLED themselves "socialists", that doesn't mean they WERE socailists. You can call a cow a dog, but it sure as heck doesn't make it a dog.

Heck, Hilter and the Nazis called themselves socialists, and they sure as heck weren't. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I would like to add there isn't a far cry between Socialism and Communism. They weren't called Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for nothing. An analogy would be as the Rev says, it's not a big leap between middle class and the rich.

Another tactic used by those who should know better...

By the same token: Just because someone claims to be right, doesn't mean that they are...

 

[mrmom2]

Democracy =Coruption

Click here

 

[I think not]

I would like to add there isn't a far cry between Socialism and Communism. They weren't called Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for nothing. An analogy would be as the Rev says, it's not a big leap between middle class and the rich.

Another tactic used by those who should know better...

By the same token: Just because someone claims to be right, doesn't mean that they are...

Yes Vanni, I'm well aware of Marxism being a political view and Socialism an economic one. Just look at history and tell me the major differences in the applications of the philosophies.

I actuallly believe a modified version of Marxism is the future of the world (way into the future), but nevertheless.