Hopelessly Enslaved by Democracy

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
Irregardless of all that, we aren’t sending you to university for free.


Fist of all, don't make assumptions about me Jay, ;) and second, why do you think one should pay for the knowledge that thousands of years of his ancestors made available? Knowledge that will allow him to benefit society?

And, Thinker, I summarized, all I felt relevant in my original 2 posts, if you still do not understand, what it is I agree with, then you never will.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Gordon J Torture said:
Irregardless of all that, we aren’t sending you to university for free.


Fist of all, don't make assumptions about me Jay, ;) and second, why do you think one should pay for the knowledge that thousands of years of his ancestors made available? Knowledge that will allow him to benefit society?

Either way you pay for it.

And, Thinker, I summarized, all I felt relevant in my original 2 posts, if you still do not understand, what it is I agree with, then you never will.

You're obviously not interested in conversation Gordon, you are interested in self-promotion and self-advertisement.
 

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
2,829
0
36
Seattle
Hmmm... I've found ...on this continent...If one is truly interested in an education.... It is fairly cheap. Its called a public library. Anyone can use them. They have a wealth of information in them. You are free to peruse to your hearts content. Free from the bias of some professor dictating what you must read.

However, this will only provide knowledge. If you are looking for a degree...the likelyhood is that you are more interested in money than knowledge.

Hey Rev how's suburbia ?...any of your neighbours bought any more goats yet?
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

Nope, we've got some cats next door though. They sit on our doorstep and ours sit on theirs. I've been thinking that maybe we should get some goats, or maybe some sheep. I'd have to buy feed for them in the winter though.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Gordon J Torture said:
Irregardless of all that, we aren’t sending you to university for free.


Fist of all, don't make assumptions about me Jay, ;) and second, why do you think one should pay for the knowledge that thousands of years of his ancestors made available? Knowledge that will allow him to benefit society?

I'm not making an assumption about you. I made a statement, and that statement was we aren’t sending you to university for free.

And no I don't believe it should be free. And I don't believe your post about how only the elite get educated in this country. There is already enough government money in the university setting as it is, and there are plenty of avenues for you to get the remainder funds to get an education. Why would I pay through taxes for someone’s university education, so they can become a lawyer and make 70k a year to start, or pay an Ivey league business mans education so he can make 100k a year to start?
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
Hmmm... I've found ...on this continent...If one is truly interested in an education.... It is fairly cheap. Its called a public library. Anyone can use them. They have a wealth of information in them. You are free to peruse to your hearts content. Free from the bias of some professor dictating what you must read.

However, this will only provide knowledge. If you are looking for a degree...the likelyhood is that you are more interested in money than knowledge.

Your comment is completely detestable. It would be ignorant to assume one could achieve a useful level of accumulative knowledge from a library, while trying to support himself without spending an entire lifetime doing it. It would be absolutely preposterous to assume one could achieve this, with the low paying jobs and ridiculous hours many with or without educations need just to survive these days. And you seem to be hinting at indolence as a factor? Please explain, how and when after a 12 or 16 hour shift of labor or anything else, is there time to "go to a library", in reality.

You are however, partially correct in theory, but unless an outside source is providing the financial means to survive, one is not realistically able to attend libraries for hours or study every day. The availability is better than nothing I suppose despite it being impossible to take full advantage of. It is just not possible, nor logical to assume one able to attend libraries frequently enough to attain a significant amount of knowledge when they must also earn their living. . In addition, as the cost of living continuously increases, and many laborers are forced to live off 8-10 dollars an hour doing jobs that used to pay 15-20, it is just makes the impossible, more impossible.

Perhaps you believe social assistance should allow those who spend hours in libraries or studying materials of their choice every day, enough funding to live comfortably for a 4-6 year undisturbed duration?

Unless the latter is what you were implying, your comment is completely preposterous and absolutely ridiculous and illogical!

And I don't believe your post about how only the elite get educated in this country. There is already enough government money in the university setting as it is, and there are plenty of avenues for you to get the remainder funds to get an education. Why would I pay through taxes for someone’s university education, so they can become a lawyer and make 70k a year to start

Because it is his god given right, and not everyone will become a lawyer. To some, it is a matter of life and death. I did not say only the elite get educated, but certainly more of them do per capita.
 

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
2,829
0
36
Seattle
So what your saying is that you want someone else to pay for your education so that you can make more money than the people for paying for your education. How is that "undetestable" ?

Libraries have access, via computer, to any information you might need. It is not denied to anyone. Secondary Educational facilities do set standards for which people can attend their facilities.

It seems to me that you merely want someone to pay for your education. Yet seem not to want to access an institution that is free and may afford a better education.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Gordon J Torture said:
Because it is his god given right, and not everyone will become a lawyer. To some, it is a matter of life and death.

Is it really.....
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
So what your saying is that you want someone else to pay for your education so that you can make more money than the people for paying for your education. How is that "undetestable" ?

Making the most money has no relevance to me, although it is the top priority driving greedy right wing ignorance!!! What has relevance however, is making enough money to survive. To have food, shelter, clothing etc. Personally, I think there should be a cap on the maximum alloud difference between lowest and highest income in the country. Every individual's contributoin to society is equally important, no matter if he is a garbage man or a doctor, both are needed and therefor one need not be paid more than the other.
 

Sy

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
146
0
16
Kingston, Ontario
RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

I would like to add that I do not agree post-secondary education should be free...However I do believe there should be more ways to pay for it rather than out of your pocket.

It should be mentioned that Sweden provides any college or university education to the public with no out of pocket cash necessary. The payment is a mandatory minimum of 2 years in military service. After that the citizen is "free" to follow any further learning they wish on the government dollar.

Also I do not believe we are being intentionally enslaved by Democracy. Anyone who has to come to an internet forum to make this claim is on the wrong website. Every politician in the country has a mail box, an E-mail box, and, two of the most necessary devices for almost any communication: They have ears. They are paid to listen to their constituents and if anyone has a problem with something their elected official does or says then that person has an obligation to make it known publicly or else get over it and move on.

One of the biggest problems I feel that democracy has right now, and will only allow to get worse if things keep going (economically) as they are is the gap between low-income and high-income wages and earners. This is a problem that affects everything from the price of gas to the price of basic essentials like food, clothing and housing....and education!

Fines for speeding tickets in Finland are geared towards the drivers income. I believe it's measures like this that will help control the economy and democracy as a whole, however every one of us is so concerned with "Being and Remaining purely Canadian" that we fail to see the positive aspects that the rest of the world can bring to our culture.

Somone here said the US is an experiment. That may or may not be, but that also means so is Canada. Canada is an evolutionary experiment. We evolved from Britain and I believe we are a more tolerant country because of that fact. Overall though, we are still a comparatively young country and we can't expect every problem that arises to be expunged instantly.

For a country such as ours, with our huge importance set on Health care and Education, I feel it is a great disasster that we placed something like 15th on the world scale of health care providers. It's a travesty we aren't higher, but in time people will come to realize that being Canadian doesn't mean we have to throw away useful ideas.

Sy
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
Sorry Sy but have you tried to get in touch with your Mp good luck and if there on the wrong side of the house your screwed :p Corporations are running the show buddy not the idiots in Ottawa their just the face men. :wink: If they really listened to us we would not be driving SUV's and burning fossil fuels like we are.Public opinion has stated for years we want alternatives but have are leaders done anything about it NO WHY?Big oil maybe?
 

Sy

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
146
0
16
Kingston, Ontario
RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

Mrmom2 I know all too well who is running the show. But I feel this is simply because the corporations are the ones who wave shiney things in front of the populace saying things like "you need this to be special". Meanwhile, because of the shiney factor cultures, environments, and ultimately the Planet is destroyed while people "enjoy" their (to quote a half decent movie) IBM Stellarspheres, Microsoft Galaxies and Planet Starbucks.

All a government can immediatly do is make a promise. But if it turns out that that promise is not do-able then they have to retract that promise and that turns them into a liar, and who trusts a liar? Does that mean their intentions were to lie initially? No. But when given the choice between an accused liar and a shiney thing, which will the general public tend to follow more often than not?
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
Gentlemen we have a comunist

I am surprised that was not said sooner. If having faith in the potential of mankind to live in harmony makes one a "communist", then so be it.

And yes, education should be free.