Hopelessly Enslaved by Democracy

[I think not]

I think its more along the lines, corporations "wave shiny things in front of politicians" than the populace.

Everything is in their control, they choose not to excercise it.

 

[Sy]

Gentlemen we have a comunist

I am surprised that was not said sooner. If having faith in the potential of mankind to live in harmony makes one a "communist", then so be it.

And yes, education should be free.

I believe it was pointed out earlier that eduation is free. Libraries, Museums, National Exhibitions are all free (or at least very inexpensive). No one needs a person to shove information into their brain, but that is exactly what we pay for. If you want a teacher you have to pay for him/her, either out of pocket or through taxes. If you want to LEARN there's plenty of information-based websites you're already paying for with your ISP fee's or books at your local library to read.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Meritocracy just went out the window

You obviously consider advancement as solely the increasing size of one's wallet.

 

[I think not]

Meritocracy just went out the window

You obviously consider advancement as solely the increasing size of one's wallet.

Meritocracy is the advancement of an individual by ability and merit rather than wealth or social position.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

If you want to LEARN there's plenty of information-based websites you're already paying for with your ISP fee's or books at your local library to read.

And yet again, the ignorance of right wing intellect shines. Please explain how one is to achieve a useful level of knowledge while also trying to earn a living?

The information may be there, but the opportunity to take full advantage of it is not.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Meritocracy is the advancement of an individual by ability and merit rather than wealth or social position.

Indeed, but what do you consider "advancement"?

The only way you have an argument, based on your other posts, is if your idea of "advancement" leads to, in the end, larger pay.

 

[Sy]

If you want to LEARN there's plenty of information-based websites you're already paying for with your ISP fee's or books at your local library to read.

And yet again, the ignorance of right wing intellect shines. Please explain how one is to achieve a useful level of knowledge while also trying to earn a living?

The information may be there, but the opportunity to take full advantage of it is not.

Huh I'm Honoured. I've never been called right-wing before. Thank you. But I feel I'm a Dead-Center Liberal at heart =)

Anyway I would like answer with a question: what can someone else teach you that you can't ultimately find out on your own?

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Huh I'm Honoured. I've never been called right-wing before.

I never " called you a right wing", I said the "ignorance of right wings shines". This includes, the effects of their dominate influence.

Anyway I would like answer with a question: what can someone else teach you that you can't ultimately find out on your own?

I never said it is essential for someone else to do the teaching, however it is obvious you are avoiding my other questions, to yet again exploit the one thing you feel you can.

 

[I think not]

Meritocracy is the advancement of an individual by ability and merit rather than wealth or social position.

Indeed, but what do you consider "advancement"?

The only way you have an argument, based on your other posts, is if your idea of "advancement" leads to, in the end, larger pay.

Sorry Gordon, but that is something any individual has the right to aspire to or not. Everyone perceives advancement in many different ways. If you are a book worm and love to learn and form opinions, you are advancing your mind, others see advancement on a social level, caring for those who cannot care for themselves, bottom line advancement is a subjective perception and not something set in stone.

And I have no idea where you got the impression I consider advancement by earning a larger pay.

 

[Sy]

If you want to LEARN there's plenty of information-based websites you're already paying for with your ISP fee's or books at your local library to read.

And yet again, the ignorance of right wing intellect shines. Please explain how one is to achieve a useful level of knowledge while also trying to earn a living?

The information may be there, but the opportunity to take full advantage of it is not.

Huh I'm Honoured. I've never been called right-wing before. Thank you. But I feel I'm a Dead-Center Liberal at heart =)

Anyway I would like answer with a question: what can someone else teach you that you can't ultimately find out on your own?

I'm sorry but for your accusing me of being an ignorant right-winger and then claiming to not see opportunity's to use what obvious education you have just seems to me like a cheap shot.

I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but I do know answers are available if you truely do want them. I spend a lot of my personal time researching answers to questions relating to my own future, acquiring knowledge and making plans to shape the way my future will go. And even if my plans don't go through then at least I can't say I wasted my time after being enlightened time after time with each question i've answered since I will possibly be able to enlighten someone else who has a question.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Sorry Gordon, but that is something any individual has the right to aspire to or not

I do not believe it is. According to history and going back to some of the oldest doctrines, wealth has again, and again been associated with evil and everything that is wrong.

I believe I quoted before:

To be at once exceedingly wealthy and good is impossible. (Plato 428-347 BC)

With your logic, one could say murder is not wrong, that is just one's perception and therefor, it would be acceptable for one to pursue a desire to obtain a record breaking mass murder without consequence.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Sy, you either failed to read the post of mine which directly preceded your last one, <SNIP>

I never called you a right winger. Observe my wording and you will see, it is possible I intended that comment as reference to the effects of right wingism. One can be influenced without being completely converted.


<< Moderator's note: Please don't call people liars >>

 

[I think not]

Sorry Gordon, but that is something any individual has the right to aspire to or not

I do not believe it is. According to history and going back to some of the oldest doctrines, wealth has again, and again been associated with evil and everything that is wrong.

I believe I quoted before:

To be at once exceedingly wealthy and good is impossible. (Plato 428-347 BC)

With your logic, one could say murder is not wrong, that is just your perception and therefor, it would be acceptable for one to pursue a desire to obtain a record breaking mass murder without consequence.

[/quote]

Since it influences society in a negative way, I wouldn't really place murder in the same category. However if we go by history, I have rarely, if ever seen any scientific breakthroughs that have actually helped humanity by the governments. True, corporations take advantage to the point where for some it becomes criminal, can't we say the same for governments also?

What exactly have governments done other than put their peoples through hardships and wars? Anything that has been accomplished in history has been accomplished by the people, not the governments.

And since we're talking about wealth, can you please define your definition of wealth if possible? I think that needs to be clarified first.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Since it influences society in a negative way, I wouldn't really place murder in the same category

And the increasing wealth of large corporations, pushing thousands of people into what becomes progressively more like slave labor is not NEGATIVE????

Anything that has been accomplished in history has been accomplished by the people, not the governments.

And that's why in the end, a self governing people is the only way to true harmony. However, there must be a means to the end.

 

[Sy]

Sy, you either failed to read the post of mine which directly preceded your last one, or you are just another blatant liar.

I never called you a right winger. Observe my wording and you will see, it is possible I intended that comment as reference to the effects of right wingism. One can be influenced without being completely converted.

Actually I did miss that post...my apologies.

However my position that education and learning are free still stands as that best education i've ever recieved did not happen in any school. :wink:
If one doesn't want to see obvious opportunity then why would that one need education?

 

[I think not]

Since it influences society in a negative way, I wouldn't really place murder in the same category

And the increasing wealth of large corporations, pushing thousands of people into what becomes progressively more like slave labor is not NEGATIVE????

Yes it most certainly is, but why do you purport the corporations are to blame? Where are the governments in protecting its people? Fine, I agree with you, corporations are greedy, what exactly is the governments excuse in all this?

Which benevolent government actually ever gave a f*ck about its people? Show me one, pick any government past or present.

 

[Sy]

RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

^^^Can we include future governments as well? Because MY government will give a f*ck about it's people. :twisted: :wink:

 

[Gordon J Torture]

If one doesn't want to see obvious opportunity then why would that one need education?

Fantastic point, and I agree with what it seems you are saying. My point is, that with the way things are now, those who DO see the opportunity, are not always able to take full advantage of it due to the increasing in difficulty struggle for those without a a formal education to earn a living. One does need food and shelter and there are only so many hours in a day.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

^^^Can we include future governments as well? Because MY government will give a f*ck about it's people. :twisted: :wink:

I really can't see that happening since to have such a government would mean humanity has evolved. I don't think that is likely in our lifetime.

 

[I think not]

If one doesn't want to see obvious opportunity then why would that one need education?

Fantastic point, and I agree with what it seems you are saying. My point is, that with the way things are now, those who DO see the opportunity, are not always able to take full advantage of it due to the increasing in difficulty struggle for those without a a formal education to earn a living. One does need food and shelter and there are only so many hours in a day.

Gordon may I ask if those who cannot afford an education is the only problem you see? Or are we just stuck on this topic? There are financial aid packages in Canada that assist poor students. Granted its not nearly enough and you have to be pretty low in the food chain to qualify, but its a start.