Harper's negative image hurts positive message

[Reverend Blair]

You're just making that up. I doubt you know why your ancestors came here or what their life was like in their country of origin at the time.

I'm not just making up. My ancestors came here because:

Irish...Potato famine brought on by British landlords and a lack of crop diversity. They came here for the land.

German...religious persecution in Germany. They moved to US and then headed for Canada (a few generations later) as United Empire Loyalists. My great-grandfather then returned to the US, then came to Canada for the land.

Ukrainian...Land owners in the homeland. They ran into trouble after backing the wrong side (Russian royalty) in one of the many minor revolutions that preceded the Russian revolution. They came to Canada for the land.

Polish...they were poor tenants in Poland...basically share-croppers They came here for the land.

My wife's German grandparents left Germany when the Nazis took power in the 1930s. They chose Canada for the land.

Her Scottish ancestors moved to the Maritimes after they were booted out to make room for sheep. They moved to Saskatchewan for the land.

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: Harper's negative ima

The one side of my family came here because they were offered land, another as representatives of the catholic church, and my moms side were German citizens that were trying to escape Russian collectivization of farmland. I know where I came from, and I know what I stand for. I don't love the government, but I love the Nation itself. I don't like the government because it's misused by the majority to discriminate against sub cultures that they don't agree with.

 

[iamcanadian]

Well, Rev each of the reasons they left was directly tied to politics at the time. They came here to get away from that, not to get land as you put it.

They were not happy where they were and enticed here because the land deals was offered to them that was better than they had. They left for political reasons and this was the best place because of the opportunities offered by a good sound country without the same policial/corruption/unfairness problems plaguing them where they came from.

Judging from the current immigration trends to Canada none of your ancestors would have come here if they were back home where they came from today.

I don't see why Canada cannot become the place of greater opportunity it was then, and the people immigrating here from those places today, since we do need people here and they have too many people in those same countries today.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper's negative ima

But you made the claim that Canada was more corrupt than those places, iam(not)canadian. That's simply untrue. Canada is still less corrupt than the Ukraine and Poland. It is arguably about the same or maginally better than Ireland/Scotland/Britain and Germany.

I was talking to a guy from Nigeria last night. He's excited as hell about getting a chance to vote without having to worry about getting shot for supporting the wrong party. Keep on insisting that Canada is the most corrupt country on earth though.

You want to talk about corruption, but you base it only on inflated numbers and accusations that you can't back up with facts. You consider any policy decision that you don't agree with to be evidence of corruption. You try to paint anybody who doesn't agree with your political position as corrupt. So give us some fact-based evidence. I've given evidence of corruption within the CPC on this board. You've pointedly avoided doing the same while claiming that the Liberals and NDP are somehow corrupt.

 

[iamcanadian]

I said the most corrupt per capita. i.e. the total amount stolen per person citizen.

In this case, Canada is more corrupt than Nigeria, since they don't have the Billions to steal from that we have.

Anyone who has ever worked for the government that I have spoken to about this agrees with my view that our non-elected administrators managing public money are pretty much all corrupt and skimming off money and jobs for their friends and family.

It's no different than in other countries, only here it involves vastly larger sums, and the system and policians do less about corruption here than is done elsewhere.

Altogether we are a more corrupt country than most, but are only perceived to be less corrupt because we do less about our corruption and cover it up more to advance an image that we are less corrupt.

It may be true that our politicians are less corrupt here, but not our non-elected administrators. Thay are the ones that are more corrupt that in other countries.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Harper's negative image hurts positive message

It may be true that our politicians are less corrupt here, but not our non-elected administrators. Thay are the ones that are more corrupt that in other countries.

Even Mexico. Noo. Really??

 

[iamcanadian]

Re: RE: Harper's negative image hurts positive message

It's no different than in other countries, only here it involves vastly larger sums, and the system and policians do less about corruption here than is done elsewhere.

Altogether we are a more corrupt country than most, but are only perceived to be less corrupt because we do less about our corruption and cover it up more to advance an image that we are less corrupt.

It may be true that our politicians are less corrupt here, but not our non-elected administrators. Thay are the ones that are more corrupt that in other countries.

Again on a per capita basis.

In mexico they skim a hundred bucks for every Million that is skimmed here.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper's negative ima

So you aren't really talking about corruption, iam(not)canadian. What you are talking about is greed. The limitations you are placing on the subject are inherently dishonest...corrupt...because they unfairly limit the criteria. Nevermind though, let's play by your corrupt rules.

Are you going to include the CPC in your judgement of that? Better have a hard look at them. What about astro-turfs fighting Kyoto with funding from Exxon? Isn't trying to hide that your funding comes from the source of the problem corrupt? Speaking of hiding where funding comes from, what's with all of those numbered companies making donations to the CPC? Why is Stephen Harper afraid to reveal where the funding for his run at the leadership of the CPC came from? Why did the CPC protect Tyson and Cargill during the BSE thing?

I'm all for limiting corruption as much as possible. That's one of the reasons why I won't vote for Stephen Harper and his corrupt Conservatives.

 

[iamcanadian]

I am of the view that policians in this country are not all that corrupt. In fact as a whole the politicians are less corruption here than anywhere.

The reason for this is that they don't control decisions that anyone would pay good money for, like they do in other places of the world, where politicians call the shots.

Here the corruption is in the hands of non-elected senior administrators in power for life, who call the tenders and issue cheque requisitions and make the recommendations that elected representatives are forced to accept.

If people don't start comming out with where the real source of corruption is, we will never get anywhere dealing with it. The politicians take the blame, if they know what's good for them, but they are just puppets for the administrators with life-long public jobs who do all the corruption at their level, and never get replaced. The politicians do what they are told and act as the escapegoats as needed when word gets out.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper's negative ima

Wow, you just displayed more ignorance of how the federal government works in one sentence than most of your cohorts can manage in an entire paragraph.

 

[iamcanadian]

Ok, so you believe that our elected sit there in their professional wisdom and figure out everything for themselves and make decisions then?

You don't think it all works from recommendations and approvals through a voting process?

How many politicians are competent for running anything all by themselves?

Most do not have the competence to run a lemonaide stand on their own let allone a milti-trillion dollar service business.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Ok, so you believe that our elected sit there in their professional wisdom and figure out everything for themselves and make decisions then?

You don't think it all works from recommendations and approvals through a voting process?

How many politicians are competent for running anything all by themselves?

Most do not have the competence to run a lemonaide stand on their own let allone a milti-trillion dollar service business.

Do you actually know anything about how our political system or our civil service works?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Harper has a "negative " image for a reason.......and it has to do with him and his um.......un-'message"

Gosh, if "not canadian" feels we are heading "south".(NOT LITERALLY. ...).... might be time to move from Canada.

Most of us are gonna hang in here and see if we can start shaping this nation into a more progressive future.

(btw: we are talking PROGRESSIVE and FUTURE........not regressive and past.......which is where this Harper chappy comes from. ......anal retentive as he is.)

plus we want to be able to differentiate ourselves from them crazies to the south of us.

 

[iamcanadian]

Do you actually know anything about how our political system or our civil service works?

Well, why don't you tell me then, if I am so far off the mark?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper's negative ima

You'll have to do your own homework, iam(not)canadian. i'm not here to do your grade 10 homework for you.

Again though, if you can provide proof of what you say, then it will be accepted. Proof has to consist of more than made-up numbers and wild accusations though.

 

[iamcanadian]

I am telling what I know of how it works. You are the one saying I don't know what I am saying. Therefore unless you have an alternative suposition you should say what it is. Bald denial does not cut it in a discussion.

Readers should assume I'm correct notwithstanding you say I an not correct.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Readers should assume I'm correct notwithstanding you say I an not correct.

Why? You've exhibited no knowledge of government or how it works. You've said that senior civil servants are corrupt and that we'd be better off with a system based on nepotism and cronyism.

Anybody who knows anything about government knows that senior civil servants do not make policy though. They can be fired for criticizing policy that they disagree with. They are monitored and be be fired for corruption. They have no authority to sign cheques. They have no way of controlling who gets elected or who gets appointed to patronage positions.

Your entire premise is wrong. Why should anybody listen to you?

 

[iamcanadian]

When was the last time a senior administrator was fire anywhere in Canada?

When was the last time a politician called a tender, issued change orders, or requisitioned payment for something?

It is you that is attempting to advance some kind of integrity with the Canadian non-elected administration, then anyone who has ever worked for government at any level can vouch for the fact that the higher the authoroty the lower the integrity of public employees everywhere in this country.

I now more than you will ever know about how government really works from the inside in this country, not the fairytales you listen to, believe in, or are try to advance.

It works on systems founded on incompetence advanced by coercion and collusion since they lack integrity and ethics, which practices is necessary to make up for lack of competence.

 

[no1important]

RE: Harper's negative ima

Harper responds to pro-American label

A Teaser:

WASHINGTON — It seems that even Conservative Leader Stephen Harper isn't anxious to appear too cosy with American politicians while he's trying to win an election.

A recent commentary in the right-wing Washington Times newspaper called him the "poster boy'' for President George W. Bush's ideal foreign leader.

But Harper objected to being described as "pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto and socially conservative,'' saying in a letter published Sunday that it "greatly oversimplifies my positions.'' [end of teaser]

Harper would hop into bed with "W" so fast . Harper can try to deny and spin it all he wants but the truth is we will be mini america and have mini bush for our PM if Harper were ever to get in. We will become america's yes men, "W" would set our foreign policy.

Very very scarey indeed.

 

[the caracal kid]

Yay, the story only "oversiplifies" his stance.

The only pledge we could beleive from harper in this election is if he made the US pledge of allegiance.