Harper- will he stay or will he go -

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Why is support for the Conservatives slumping when the economy is in good shape? | Full Comment | National Post

A half-dozen national polls now put the Conservatives behind the Liberals, by margins of as much as 13 percentage points. Averaging across them, the website ThreeHundredEight.com puts Conservative support at 29%, the lowest it has been since they first took power in 2006 and a drop of more than 10 points from their share of the popular vote in the election just two years ago.

Well, you say, governments often go through troughs in support at mid-term. The Tories have been behind before — after Michael Ignatieff became Liberal leader in 2009, and again after Thomas Mulcair became NDP leader in 2012 — and soon recaptured the lead.

Yes, but they never fell this far. And that’s a puzzle: looking at a chart of Environics Research polls going back to 1978, I can see two previous cases of a governing party falling below the 30% mark: the Liberals in the early 1980s and the Tories in the early 1990s. Understandably enough: each had the misfortune to be governing in the middle of a crunching recession.

But that’s not true today. While the economy is not quite at the peaks it reached just before the last recession, it remains in remarkably good shape by any historic standard, with unemployment at 7.2%, inflation below 2%, mortgage rates at record lows and poverty rates the same. You have to go back to the golden years of the 1960s to find a better record.

And whatever Trudeau’s appeal, it can hardly explain the decline in Stephen Harper’s public approval numbers, to just 28% versus 50%-plus disapproval. Again, this is for a prime minister governing in good times, with a famously incremental agenda, precisely crafted to avoid the sort of ideological excesses that were supposed to have torpedoed the party in the past.

Let me venture to suggest this is not accidental. If today both Mr. Harper and the party he leads are actively disliked by more than seven voters in 10, it may be because they have gone out of their way to alienate them in every conceivable way — not by their policies, or even their record, but simply by their style of governing, as over-bearing as it is under-handed, and that on a good day.When they are not refusing to disclose what they are doing, they are giving out false information; when they allow dissenting opinions to be voiced, they smear them as unpatriotic or worse; when they open their own mouths to speak, it is to read the same moronic talking points over and over, however these may conflict with the facts, common courtesy, or their own most solemn promises.

Secretive, controlling, manipulative, crude, autocratic, vicious, unprincipled, untrustworthy, paranoid … Even by the standards of Canadian politics, it’s quite the performance. We’ve had some thuggish or dishonest governments in the past, even some corrupt ones, but never one quite so determined to arouse the public’s hostility, to so little apparent purpose. Their policy legacy may prove short-lived, but it will be hard to erase the stamp of the Nasty Party.

Perhaps, in their self-delusion, the Tories imagine this is all the fault of the Ottawa media, or the unavoidable cost of governing as Conservatives in a Liberal country. I can assure them it is not. The odium in which they are now held is well-earned, and entirely self-inflicted.
 

WLDB

Senate Member
Jun 24, 2011
6,182
0
36
Ottawa
I dont think he'll go. At least not during this term. I think he has at least one more election in him. If he wins it then I can see him stepping down sometime during that term. If he loses, probably not long afterwards. If he does decide to step down before the next election I seriously doubt it will have anything to do with the polls. If he believed the polls he would not have run for leader of the Alliance, joined with the PCs, or tried to seriously win a chance at government.

Plus, really, I think he'd love to run against Trudeau.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
I dont think he'll go. At least not during this term. I think he has at least one more election in him. If he wins it then I can see him stepping down sometime during that term. If he loses, probably not long afterwards. If he does decide to step down before the next election I seriously doubt it will have anything to do with the polls. If he believed the polls he would not have run for leader of the Alliance, joined with the PCs, or tried to seriously win a chance at government.

Plus, really, I think he'd love to run against Trudeau.

If over the longer term later this year - to very early next and they point to a minority Govt. he will retire. He then leaves on top.

No shown the Royal Order of the Boot as Winston was after WW2.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Churchill did come back 5 years later. His political career seemingly died a number of times throughout his life.

Of the many sides of Harper he is a pragmatist.
Harper also has the chance to make real money- he has a young family.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
This is Trudeau's honeymoon.

Liberal percentages will drop after a couple of months and all three parties will be in dead heat before next election.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
Churchill did come back 5 years later. His political career seemingly died a number of times throughout his life.

Are you actually comparing Stephen Harper to Winston Churchill?

Churchill was a defender of democracy, Harper is at best a manipulator.

If the conservatives had any sense they would start working right now to force Harper to begin planning his replacement before the next election. Canada is far more than just an economy and even that isn't doing so well when you consider how vulnerable the oil sands project is to increasing international opposition.
 

B00Mer

Make Canada Great Again
Sep 6, 2008
47,127
8,145
113
Rent Free in Your Head
www.canadianforums.ca
Nothing will stand in the way of Harper and the conservatives being re-elected..not even Justine Tr... no Bieber...??

 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
This is Trudeau's honeymoon.

Liberal percentages will drop after a couple of months and all three parties will be in dead heat before next election.

Reading the tea leaves the Cons- Read Harper has pissed off a substantial number of voters- add in his Ministers etc- There is a lot of angst directed at, deservedly so, for the Conservatives- Coyne nailed it.

And a blue sweater won’t cut it this time.

As to Trudeau- wait and see. Waiting for him to throw rose petals at crowds while wearing a white robe. To young for white hair and a staff so I did not include those.

My point is that if they are headed over the long term to a minority Govt., Harper has been there – done that-

Are you actually comparing Stephen Harper to Winston Churchill?

Churchill was a defender of democracy, Harper is at best a manipulator.

If the conservatives had any sense they would start working right now to force Harper to begin planning his replacement before the next election. Canada is far more than just an economy and even that isn't doing so well when you consider how vulnerable the oil sands project is to increasing international opposition.

Read the post and take a Midol.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
Nothing will stand in the way of Harper and the conservatives being re-elected..not even Justine Tr... no Bieber...??

You mean things like laws and the electorate?

When the conservatives celebrate their "wins", they're really celebrating a loss to most Canadians.
 

B00Mer

Make Canada Great Again
Sep 6, 2008
47,127
8,145
113
Rent Free in Your Head
www.canadianforums.ca
You mean things like laws and the electorate?

When the conservatives celebrate their "wins", they're really celebrating a loss to most Canadians.

Not at all. The Canadian economy is strong, Harper is defending our northern lands..

What's the Liberals what to do.. give more rights to Quebec and Muslims.. what about Canadians..



Seriously if Justin Trudeau gets elected look for western separatist parties..
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
The electorate has been given them steady gains in each election over the last ten years.

Then why do the conservatives feel forced to violate the election laws and limit access to the kind of information that voters need to make genuine democratic choices?

It's no secret that Harper and his supporters want Canadians to believe this is a conservative nation, but that's more hype than reality. Hence the resort to illegal and undemocratic means to "win" elections.

If the only real objective of the far right is win at all costs including the likely viability of this nation in a number of areas then the whole idea of an electoral win becomes relative. There's no question that more and more Canadians are being left out of the democratic process, this isn't a new factor in our politics, what's new is the lengths that the conservatives have gone to to exploit it.

"Winning" by making most of us losers really isn't something to be proud of.

Not at all. The Canadian economy is strong, Harper is defending our northern lands..

What's the Liberals what to do.. give more rights to Quebec and Muslims.. what about Canadians..



Seriously if Justin Trudeau gets elected look for western separatist parties..

The Canadian economy is hanging by a string, if Keystone XL doesn't go through then there are going to be some tough times ahead. And the kind of compromise and diplomacy needed to work with the wide variety of groups to achieve the necessary support to keep the oil sands going aren't skills the conservatives have. They're great at manipulating and intimidating others into doing what they want and that may work on a limited national level in Canada. But as Joe Oliver just found out in Europe, we can't intimidate other nations into backing our agenda. Harper could triple the size of our Armed forces, that still wouldn't give him the muscle to force other nations into toeing his line.

Sure Justin Trudeau would anger some people across Canada, how do you think millions of us have felt about being walked over by Harper and his dictatorial approach to government for the last seven years?
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Why is support for the Conservatives slumping when the economy is in good shape? | Full Comment | National PostLet me venture to suggest this is not accidental. If today both Mr. Harper and the party he leads are actively disliked by more than seven voters in 10, it may be because they have gone out of their way to alienate them in every conceivable way — not by their policies, or even their record, but simply by their style of governing, as over-bearing as it is under-handed, and that on a good day.When they are not refusing to disclose what they are doing, they are giving out false information; when they allow dissenting opinions to be voiced, they smear them as unpatriotic or worse; when they open their own mouths to speak, it is to read the same moronic talking points over and over, however these may conflict with the facts, common courtesy, or their own most solemn promises.

Secretive, controlling, manipulative, crude, autocratic, vicious, unprincipled, untrustworthy, paranoid … Even by the standards of Canadian politics, it’s quite the performance. We’ve had some thuggish or dishonest governments in the past, even some corrupt ones, but never one quite so determined to arouse the public’s hostility, to so little apparent purpose. Their policy legacy may prove short-lived, but it will be hard to erase the stamp of the Nasty Party.

Perhaps, in their self-delusion, the Tories imagine this is all the fault of the Ottawa media, or the unavoidable cost of governing as Conservatives in a Liberal country. I can assure them it is not. The odium in which they are now held is well-earned, and entirely self-inflicted.
hehe There's another possibility; that Harpy just isn't wearing the right color. He's a Con, not a Glib. "Secretive, controlling, manipulative, crude, autocratic, vicious, unprincipled, untrustworthy, paranoid … " could also describe ChRETIeN or aPAULing Martin. lol
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
hehe There's another possibility; that Harpy just isn't wearing the right color. He's a Con, not a Glib. "Secretive, controlling, manipulative, crude, autocratic, vicious, unprincipled, untrustworthy, paranoid … " could also describe ChRETIeN or aPAULing Martin. lol

Harper is not going anywhere, anytime soon. Too many seniors!
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
I think it's an easy one to call.
Keep in mind Harper is still relatively young.
And unlike some other previous Presidents and Prime Ministers Harper still looks healthy and vigorous.

We are due for an election shuffle in cabinet and then some long chats with caucus and constituency associations.
Harper is almost a lock to run again as leader.
If the Con's win a majority then Harper will rule for at least 3 years of the 4 year term before deciding whether or not to stay.
And that could go either way.
A Con minority and Harper would probably serve for 2 or 3 years before setting up his successor ( perhaps Jim Prentice) and then stepping back.

A Lib minority or majority Government would be utterly at the beck and call of the Conservative party because they will completely control the upper house.
It would mean a 4 year Liberal do nothing but a little light housekeeping Government term.
Harper would almost certainly immediately step down and let the Conservative party choose a new leader.

Harper, unlike several past Prime Ministers is very highly respected on the world stage.
He is an economist Prime Minister that steered Canada through a vicious resession and obtained the best track record of all the nations in the G12.
That is a fact.
He is respected by world business and political leaders alike as a extremely competent and clever leader.
He is also a political historian and analyst of some renown.

Other ex-PM's have tended to quietly shuffle off to a cubicle at some local Canadian law office when their political careers come to an end.
That will not happen with Harper.
International and Canadian job opportunities will abound.
The worlds top universities would love to get him on the lecture circuit.
And that possibly could lead to him stepping down if the PM job in Canada becomes less than enjoyable for him.
Some awfully green pastures waiting out there.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
This says it well I think, it's not necessarily the policies of the government that are creating such distrust and disapproval of the Harper government, it's the way it governs.

Conservatives’ reputation as the ‘Nasty Party’ is well-deserved | canada.com

And whatever Trudeau’s appeal, it can hardly explain the decline in Stephen Harper’s public approval numbers, to just 28 per cent versus 50 per cent-plus disapproval. Again, this is for a prime minister governing in good times, with a famously incremental agenda, precisely crafted to avoid the sort of ideological excesses that were supposed to have torpedoed the party in the past.

Let me venture to suggest this is not accidental. If today both Harper and the party he leads are actively disliked by more than seven voters in 10, it may be because they have gone out of their way to alienate them in every conceivable way — not by their policies, or even their record, but simply by their style of governing, as over-bearing as it is under-handed, and that on a good day.

When they are not refusing to disclose what they are doing, they are giving out false information; when they allow dissenting opinions to be voiced, they smear them as unpatriotic or worse; when they open their own mouths to speak, it is to read the same moronic talking points over and over, however these may conflict with the facts, common courtesy, or their own most solemn promises.

Secretive, controlling, manipulative, crude, autocratic, vicious, unprincipled, untrustworthy, paranoid … Even by the standards of Canadian politics, it’s quite the performance. We’ve had some thuggish or dishonest governments in the past, even some corrupt ones, but never one quite so determined to arouse the public’s hostility, to so little apparent purpose. Their policy legacy may prove short-lived, but it will be hard to erase the stamp of the Nasty Party.

Perhaps, in their self-delusion, the Tories imagine this is all the fault of the Ottawa media, or the unavoidable cost of governing as Conservatives in a Liberal country. I can assure them it is not. The odium in which they are now held is well-earned, and entirely self-inflicted.

Well said, the growing opposition to the conservative party is the result of the antagonism it creates as it walks over everything it sees as being in its way...which includes the rights and interests of millions of Canadians.