Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Right?

[Colpy]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

I also need to point out that this anti-Christianity is self-destructive and selective.

Christianity has been the foundation of democracy. Great thinkers such as Thomas Jefferson wondered if democracy was even possible in a non-Christian society. Almost every democracy on earth springs from Judeao-Christian roots. The only exception I can think of is Iceland, which has been democratic since the Vikings.

The bias is selective against Christianity. If a candidate was a Muslim, who occassionally dotted his conversation with "Insha Allah" (God willing), not a voice would be raised.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Now I didn't hear this. However, it makes perfect sense to when you are Stephen Harper, the Stephen Harper you can say God Bless Canada all you want.

However, when you are Stephen Harper the PM, like Bush the President, when you say God Bless Whatever, at that role you are representing all people in your country. Not just yourself.

Personal role fine. PM role not allowed.

Sorry Tripple R,

Mythologies, superstitions, et al do not belong in politics, period. (Socially condoned or not).

Appeals to deities are divisive and this is yet another example of why Harper is NOT suited to be the leader of Canada.

Last time I checked Martin was religious. Last time I checked, Layton believed in some deity.

I believe in a deity, well many deities, but that doesn't effect me. But like some people point out, unlike America, most Canadians are aethist or don't believe in any kind of God.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

I also need to point out that this anti-Christianity is self-destructive and selective.

Christianity has been the foundation of democracy. Great thinkers such as Thomas Jefferson wondered if democracy was even possible in a non-Christian society. Almost every democracy on earth springs from Judeao-Christian roots. The only exception I can think of is Iceland, which has been democratic since the Vikings.
The bias is selective against Christianity. If a candidate was a Muslim, who occassionally dotted his conversation with "Insha Allah" (God willing), not a voice would be raised.

Don't give me that baloney. Greece back in B.C before Christianity created democracy. That didn't come from a Christian ideology.

And what do you mean by what I have slected in bold?

 

[Colpy]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

I also need to point out that this anti-Christianity is self-destructive and selective.

Christianity has been the foundation of democracy. Great thinkers such as Thomas Jefferson wondered if democracy was even possible in a non-Christian society. Almost every democracy on earth springs from Judeao-Christian roots. The only exception I can think of is Iceland, which has been democratic since the Vikings.
The bias is selective against Christianity. If a candidate was a Muslim, who occassionally dotted his conversation with "Insha Allah" (God willing), not a voice would be raised.

Don't give me that baloney. Greece back in B.C before Christianity created democracy. That didn't come from a Christian ideology.

And what do you mean by what I have slected in bold?

Excuse me, I should have said modern democracy.

And, in ancient Greece, those permitted to vote were greatly outnumbered by the disenfranchised.

And.....it didn't last.

The Vikings on Iceland were democrats, mind you, of a diferent type than modern democracies. Vikings practised "concensus democracy". That means the male population would meet to consider important questions. They would only emerge when everyone present had agreed on the action to be taken.

Everyone still alive, I mean.

Being a dissenter, at least a stubborn one, was not wise.

 

[Doryman]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

As much as I like to mock anyone who fervently believes in any form of Magic Sky Ghost, you can't really say that Harper doesn't have the right to say "God Bless Canada" in a speech. He believes in God ( rightly or wrongly) and used a figure of speech that, from a believer, is a compliment. If someone wanted to bless me, I wouldn't believe in it, but I wouldn't take them to town over being a spooky Neo-Con fundamentalist who's trying to drag me into his Theocracy.

And even if it was a contrived attempt to reach out to the religious right ( probably) guess what? That's legitimate electioneering. Candidates are allowed to appeal to certain groups in order to get votes. Even gay-hating, anti-abortion, redneck, Fundamentalist Christians have the right to vote in Canada. That's called Democracy, folks.

Prime Ministers have the right to have personal beliefs, as long as they do not force those beliefs on an unwilling populace.

 

[the caracal kid]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

By the way, God is referenced in our Canadian national anthem. Should we edit the Canadian national anthem?
It seems to me that if "God bless Canada" is unacceptable than so is "God keep our land...". The flipside of that, of course, is that if "God keep our land..." is acceptable, so is "God bless Canada".

yes, it is long past time to strip the superstitions from the canadian anthem and the charter.

Last time I checked Martin was religious. Last time I checked, Layton believed in some deity.

Ant the same expectations that their personal beliefs remain personal apply to them as well.

 

[Colpy]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Jersay said

But like some people point out, unlike America, most Canadians are aethist or don't believe in any kind of God.

This is simply untrue. Canadian surveys show the vast majority of Canadians (upwards of 70%) believe in God, and the vast majority of those (up wards of 80%) believe in the tradition Judeao-Christian God.

Edited to say:

Had to look it up.
2001 Canadian census:

77.1% identified themselves as Christians
6.4% identified themselves as adherents to other religions
16.5% identified themselves as without religious affiliation

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Caracal kid ?

I'd suggest a vote on the matter. Neither side
will accept a judical ruling by fiat.

If the people of Canada want to strip every reference
to God, then let them vote on the matter.

By the way atheism is a religion itself, every bit
as logically inconsistent as most religions are.

Some atheists don't mind the references to God
and other atheists find it worst than pornography or
violence on TV.

Same kind of moderates and extremist live as Atheists
as those who subscribe to some established religion.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

indeed.

i am not an athiest. I merely view canada as a land of many cultures and traditions. As such, reference to any one of those cultures/mythologies is to promote one as more legitimate than any other. By having no references made within the charter, anthem, or government, we leave personal belief to persons. Separation of church and state is just that, separation of the "spiritual" from governance, which includes not promoting ANY "religion", even the atheist religion.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

yes, it is long past time to strip the superstitions from the canadian anthem and the charter.

People don't like it? There are plenty of countries in the world where they will feel at home.



"Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:"

See the word "founded"? This isn't going to go away because some revolutionaries have decided to ruin the west and it's ideology.

I support the government buying tickets to atheist countries for those who wish to leave because they don't like Canada.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

indeed.

i am not an athiest. I merely view canada as a land of many cultures and traditions. As such, reference to any one of those cultures/mythologies is to promote one as more legitimate than any other. By having no references made within the charter, anthem, or government, we leave personal belief to persons. Separation of church and state is just that, separation of the "spiritual" from governance, which includes not promoting ANY "religion", even the atheist religion.

I would have to disagree. With 77.1% of Canadians identifying themselves as Christian, and with the reference to God in the constitution, Canada is essentually a Christian nation, tolerant of all other faiths.

Which is as it should be.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

times change, jay.

it is called "evolution".

It began on a foundation of superstition, but eventually the people and the system of government have to evolve to a greater understanding and a more inclusive, representative system.

It is the "western ideology" you refer to that ruined many cultures.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

times change, jay.

it is called "evolution".

It began on a foundation of superstition, but eventually the people and the system of government have to evolve to a greater understanding and a more inclusive, representative system.

It is the "western ideology" you refer to that ruined many cultures.

Ah, but the vast majority of Canadians consider the existence of God to be much, much more than "superstition".

Game, set, and match

 

[tracy]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

I'm happily agnostic and I couldn't care less if someone says God Bless Canada (as long as they also want God to bless the rest of the world because it seems a little selfish to only ask your Creator to bless your country).

 

[the caracal kid]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

Ah, but the vast majority of Canadians consider the existence of God to be much, much more than "superstition".

Game, set, and match

and there was a time when the vast majority did not consider women equal.

and there was a time when the vast majority did not consider all races equal.

...

the culture either evolves or it dies.

the adherence to superstition within the framework of the country is the next to go.

game, set, and match.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

Ah, but the vast majority of Canadians consider the existence of God to be much, much more than "superstition".

Game, set, and match

and there was a time when the vast majority did not consider women equal.

and there was a time when the vast majority did not consider all races equal.

...

the culture either evolves or it dies.

the adherence to superstition within the framework of the country is the next to go.

game, set, and match.

Smile when you say that Varmit!

The point is the nation has not yet "evolved" or devolved to that point yet.

 

[KanBob]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

Sorry Tripple R,

Mythologies, superstitions, et al do not belong in politics, period. (Socially condoned or not).

Appeals to deities are divisive and this is yet another example of why Harper is NOT suited to be the leader of Canada.

Except of course the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Schedule B. Part 1.

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

 

[Hank C]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

By the way, God is referenced in our Canadian national anthem. Should we edit the Canadian national anthem?
It seems to me that if "God bless Canada" is unacceptable than so is "God keep our land...". The flipside of that, of course, is that if "God keep our land..." is acceptable, so is "God bless Canada".

yes, it is long past time to strip the superstitions from the canadian anthem and the charter.

Last time I checked Martin was religious. Last time I checked, Layton believed in some deity.

Ant the same expectations that their personal beliefs remain personal apply to them as well.

Changing the national anthem is the stupidest idea I ever heard, just as was Sven Robinsons idea to strip god from the constitution! Some of the antiChristian bigots I see make me want to say thank you and god bless, everytime I am ending a phone with a stranger.....in the hope I am talking to hatefilled anti-god swine.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

yes, KanBob, that is in the charter and it is past time for it to be removed from the charter if canada honestly expects itself to be an open, inclusive society that respects the equality of all.

edit:

Hank C,

"hate filled anti-god swine"?

i am not suggesting you can not practice whatever form of spirituality you wish to in your personal life. Everybody is equally free to practice any type of spirituality they subscribe to, so long as it does not infringe on others. The charter, the constitution, and the anthem need to reflect this equality of all beliefs within our pluralistic society. We are not all equal when one mythology is granted a form of recognition at the neglect of all others.

 

[tracy]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Is it really acceptable to Christians to call people swine even if you disagree with them?