Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Right?

[Hank C]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

Is it really acceptable to Christians to call people swine even if you disagree with them?

:roll: ....did you read my post....I refer to people who are hatefilled anti christian/anti god people as swine. If one shows respect and tolerance than I really have no problem with them.....athiest people are fine with me as long as they don't try and degrade our traditions and religion.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Hank, removal of "God" from the charter, anthem, and constitution does not degrade your religion. You are still free to practice it however you want.

Think of it from another perspective. Lets say you practiced Mithraism. You are canadian and told you are free to practice your religion and are an equal, but are then told you must recognize another god as a part of Canada. How would you feel?

Put another way, either all the revealed religions are right or they are all wrong. THerefore all of them or none of them should be recognized within our charters.

 

[winniethepooh]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Personally it was refreshing to reaffirm Canada's heritage. Should we remove the word God from our constitution and from Parliament Hill.

I would have a problem with a Church being involved e.g. United Church activly supports the Liberals...but there is a difference between a group of people who happen to be religious wanting a voice in the democratic process, they have as much right to participate as you or I do.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

Is it really acceptable to Christians to call people swine even if you disagree with them?

:roll: ....did you read my post....I refer to people who are hatefilled anti christian/anti god people as swine. If one shows respect and tolerance than I really have no problem with them.....athiest people are fine with me as long as they don't try and degrade our traditions and religion.

I thought Christians were even supposed to respect their enemies, hate filled atheists included. I thought the word love was in there somewhere, but of course I'm not a Christian so I wouldn't really know. Responding to intolerance with intolerance just doesn't seem like the Christian message that I've heard.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

maybe it has to do with christianity being on the decline. Many christians seem very defensive as they recognize the slow world-wide death of their religion.

 

[tracy]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

I don't think Christianity is going to die out anytime soon. Living in the US, the vast majority of my friends and coworkers are Christian. I respect that and expect them to respect me being agnostic. I do see a distinct difference between the teachings and the living though. I see a lot of Christians freaking out about losing their religion due to less overt government support of it. I find it odd since the vast majority of people here are Christian, to the point that people just assume you're one too. I actually had a coworker quite shocked to find out I wasn't a Christian. She said something about how it was surprising that I was so moral in spite of it I have had a few people get insulting or annoying since they were so worried about the state of my soul, but I just tell them that they can pray for me but they need to get out of my face about going to church with them.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

it isn't going to die "soon" within the perspective of a human lifetime, but it is slowly on the decline. It has passed its zenith is the best way to look at it.

 

[cyberclark]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Harper is as extreme right wing as they make them. He's got his own private Halliburtons' in the form of ATCO and Bechtel.

As it is now, company flip across the border in weeks depending on what the Canadian dollar is at vis the US dollar and what the price of semi skilled labor is compared to the us.

Manufacting and paper to name a few close plants at random throught both the US and Canada to hit the lowest production.

While doing so they pick up obscene support from no or lower taxation or grants. Then, it's all down the creek when the values change and they decide its time to move to the other side of the line.

Harper will pretty much erase that line! He will do away with the social net to put us on an equal footing with industry in the US. He is a corporate man, not a prime minister!

 

[Toro]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

The Republican Party? 8O 8O

Are you kidding?

No even close, boys and girls.

 

[Citizen]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Now I didn't hear this. However, it makes perfect sense to when you are Stephen Harper, the Stephen Harper you can say God Bless Canada all you want.

However, when you are Stephen Harper the PM, like Bush the President, when you say God Bless Whatever, at that role you are representing all people in your country. Not just yourself.

Personal role fine. PM role not allowed.

Sorry Tripple R,

Mythologies, superstitions, et al do not belong in politics, period. (Socially condoned or not).

Appeals to deities are divisive and this is yet another example of why Harper is NOT suited to be the leader of Canada.

Last time I checked Martin was religious. Last time I checked, Layton believed in some deity.

I believe in a deity, well many deities, but that doesn't effect me. But like some people point out, unlike America, most Canadians are aethist or don't believe in any kind of God.

Excellent post. Harper (and all mps) should keep their personal beliefs to themselves.

 

[Papachongo]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

I thought canada was an inclusive country. Shouldn't we then include christians in free speach?

 

[glenny]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

Is it really acceptable to Christians to call people swine even if you disagree with them?

:roll: ....did you read my post....I refer to people who are hatefilled anti christian/anti god people as swine. If one shows respect and tolerance than I really have no problem with them.....athiest people are fine with me as long as they don't try and degrade our traditions and religion.

I'm athiest and I don't mind religous people either except when they are in the public eye praising god and telling my child exsist. I don't want my daughter to learn that fairy tale. Should that not be my choice as a parent. Now I tell my child to be proud to be Canadian and to have a man that wants to represent our country should respect my believes and not voice his as the truth to our Canadian youth. they are very impressionable and our prime minister should not be trying to spill his believes on them.

 

[JomZ]

RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Of course all people of all religions are aloud to speak their mind about whatever they want.

We must remember that Canada is growing into a secular society, especially in the realm of politics to a certain degree. It is for the benefit of all because it creates a more equal ground, where people are judged on the merits of their character and intelligence rather then their race, sex, or ethnicity.

The part that some of us have a problem with is that Stephen Harper is the leader of this party and possibly this government. He is a figurehead that is suppose to impose this belief that this society is equal, and yet he draws on his own personal beliefs which is Christianity and he brings them forth and attaches them to his leadership persona.

Its not wrong for him too say it, but he is drawing a divisive line in the sand (so to speak) that Canada is Christian society and not a secular society.

 

[Papachongo]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Its not wrong for him too say it, but he is drawing a divisive line in the sand (so to speak) that Canada is Christian society and not a secular society

By saying 'God bless Canada'? Those same three words could be used to describe allah, brahma, zeus or manitou. I don't see any calls for crusade, nor any requests for an inquisition to purge the nonbelievers. He didn't say 'Christian God Bless Canada' or 'God Bless this Christian Canada'. I think maybe some of us have our righteous indignation meter set on high mode.

 

[Citizen]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

By saying 'God bless Canada'? Those same three words could be used to describe allah, brahma, zeus or manitou. I don't see any calls for crusade, nor any requests for an inquisition to purge the nonbelievers. He didn't say 'Christian God Bless Canada' or 'God Bless this Christian Canada'. I think maybe some of us have our righteous indignation meter set on high mode.

It has nothing to do with being righteous.

Politics and religion do not, and should not, mix. I don't want my PM publicly praising Allah, Buddah or God.

It simply isn't necessary for Harper or any other mp to inject his personal religious beliefs into his view of Canada.

 

[nomore]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

I am sorry, but this is just unbelievable. How Hypocritical can some of you people be. First off I will say, I am not religious in any way, shape, or form. But to criticize Harper for making a small statement like that, is just unbelievable, are you people really that desperate, that you only have things like this to criticize about?

Most of you are the first people to condemn anyone for taking away any sort of freedom, or right, and now you have the nerve to criticize one of our most important rights...the freedom of speech!

Like I said I don't believe in god, and am not religious, but I take absolutely no offense to Harper making a comment like that, because it shows a little compassion and patriotism for Canada. Something we should have more of.

Comparing that comment to Bush, is absolutely ridiculous, Americans have been saying that many many years, long before Bush came along, so really get off it.

I just find it so unbelievable that you all are the first ones to support any type of human right, or way of life, except of course any type of belief in god. You guys need to get your priorities straight. So what if he believes in something, is that really so bad?

Edit: On top of that, He is not injecting his personal religious beliefs into Canada, he simply made a statement (a right, by the way). He is not talking about making the belief in god a law.

You guys need to make a decision, either you believe in rights and freedoms, or you don't, you can't just choose a different side when it is convenient to you.

To say Personal beliefs should not be brought into parliament is pretty ridiculous, because beliefs are what make parliament work. If you couldn't bring beliefs into parliament, then everyone would vote the same on every single issue, and we might as well all be walking around in silver jump suits, and thinking like mindless robots. Everyone has beliefs, religious or otherwise, the real test as human beings is whether we can accept them or not.

 

[Triple_R]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

it isn't going to die "soon" within the perspective of a human lifetime, but it is slowly on the decline. It has passed its zenith is the best way to look at it.

No, it's not. Christianity is still the world's largest religion, and has even seen substantial increases in China and Russia in recent years.

Christianity is growing, if anything.

I find the mentality of those who don't believe in God utterly bizarre. What's more 'magical and pixie dust and superstitious' than to believe that this incredible intricate universe with noticable elements of design is due to pure chance? Obviously, there is almost certainly a Creator.

 

[Triple_R]

Re: RE: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious

Of course all people of all religions are aloud to speak their mind about whatever they want.

We must remember that Canada is growing into a secular society, especially in the realm of politics to a certain degree. It is for the benefit of all because it creates a more equal ground, where people are judged on the merits of their character and intelligence rather then their race, sex, or ethnicity.

The part that some of us have a problem with is that Stephen Harper is the leader of this party and possibly this government. He is a figurehead that is suppose to impose this belief that this society is equal, and yet he draws on his own personal beliefs which is Christianity and he brings them forth and attaches them to his leadership persona.

Its not wrong for him too say it, but he is drawing a divisive line in the sand (so to speak) that Canada is Christian society and not a secular society.

He never said "Jesus bless Canada", he said "God bless Canada".
"God" is about as open-ended a term as you can get. If I was Muslim, I'd think Allah. If I was Jewish, I'd think Jehovah/YHWH. If I was Hindu, I'd probably think of Vishnu.

The problem is that most of the anti-"God bless Canada" people on this thread are thinking of God within an exclusively Christian framework - my view is that God, in today's Canada, is seen through much more generic eyes. It simply means "the Creator".

I have little to no doubt that our universe has a Creator... as I said before, it's the hights of belief in superstition to argue that our universe, with all of its incredible intracacies and elements of design, is due to pure chance.

By saying "God bless Canada", Harper is simply making an appeal to a Being that he believes in. As per my Luke Skywalker/Superman point (which none of my opponents' on this thread has effectively addressed), that, in and of itself, shouldn't concern atheists/agnostics one iota.

 

[Triple_R]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

Now I didn't hear this. However, it makes perfect sense to when you are Stephen Harper, the Stephen Harper you can say God Bless Canada all you want.

However, when you are Stephen Harper the PM, like Bush the President, when you say God Bless Whatever, at that role you are representing all people in your country. Not just yourself.

Personal role fine. PM role not allowed.

Sorry Tripple R,

Mythologies, superstitions, et al do not belong in politics, period. (Socially condoned or not).

Appeals to deities are divisive and this is yet another example of why Harper is NOT suited to be the leader of Canada.

Last time I checked Martin was religious. Last time I checked, Layton believed in some deity.

I believe in a deity, well many deities, but that doesn't effect me. But like some people point out, unlike America, most Canadians are aethist or don't believe in any kind of God.

Excellent post. Harper (and all mps) should keep their personal beliefs to themselves.

I strongly, and vehemently, disagree.
You folks talk about "hidden agendas", and then you have the unmitigated gall to turn around and say you want their personal beliefs to be kept to themselves? How incredibly bizarre.

How the heck are agendas suppossed to become known if all MPs keep their personal beliefs to themselves? On the one hand, you want to reveal suppossed "extreme religious right viewpoints" on the part of Harper, and on the other hand you get your thin-skinned underwear tied up in knots when he says "God bless Canada"?

So, Citizen, which do you want - do you want candidates to be more open and frank about their personal beliefs so there's no hidden agendas, or do you want it to not be Ok for them to talk about their personal beliefs which naturally leads to hidden agendas?

Personally, I'd love to know the religious/spiritual beliefs of each and every one of the candidates running in this election... or if they have no such beliefs, I'd like to know that as well. This is why... because "personal beliefs" impact our day-to-day behavior, our world outlook, and hence our likely stand on issues, more than anything else. All I know is that Harper is almost certainly a Protestant Christian (even this I don't know for a fact), and that Martin is Catholic (but whether or not his religion of birth is important to him is anybody's guess). I don't have a clue what Duceppe, or Layton, believe on religious/spiritual matters... if they believe anything at all.

Aren't you on the left the ones who so often point out how religious beliefs can impact a candidate's policy positions? Well, if religious beliefs have such an impact on a candidate's policy positions, wouldn't you want to know what those religious beliefs are beforehand... before you vote? Wouldn't you want them to be as open about their religious beliefs as possible, so you could point and say, "See, see! It's just like I told you!" or even "Well, that doesn't sound so bad after all", or "That's why I'm supporting him/her!"?

I strongly dislike all this talk of sterilizing society against references to God, and MPs talking about their personal beliefs, because it is the exact opposite of what we need. We need to hear MORE about MPs personal beliefs - not less. I want to know where Martin gets his "uniquely Canadian" values from. I want to know what beliefs help shape Jack Layton's world outlook, and personal values. I want to know what role, if any, religion plays in Duceppe's life.

With this knowledge, I have a more well-rounded view of the candidate. I'm certainly more likely to see the rising of red flags, should such red flags exist.

 

[Triple_R]

Re: Harper - The Canadian Version of the U.S. Religious Righ

By saying 'God bless Canada'? Those same three words could be used to describe allah, brahma, zeus or manitou. I don't see any calls for crusade, nor any requests for an inquisition to purge the nonbelievers. He didn't say 'Christian God Bless Canada' or 'God Bless this Christian Canada'. I think maybe some of us have our righteous indignation meter set on high mode.

It has nothing to do with being righteous.

Politics and religion do not, and should not, mix. I don't want my PM publicly praising Allah, Buddah or God.

It simply isn't necessary for Harper or any other mp to inject his personal religious beliefs into his view of Canada.

It's beneficial though, as we get a more well-rounded look at the candidate when he opens up like that. I'm stunned that any voter would ostensibly want to know less about the candidates running for office.

Also, "God bless Candada" is more a patriotic statement than a religious one. Tiny Tim's "God bless us, everyone" is religious, because it recognizes no boundary, but "God bless Canada" (just like "God bless America") is a patriotic statement since it is essentially praising a nation. What Harper is saying, in effect, is "Canada is so great, I want God to bless it!". You don't ask God to bless something that you don't love or care about.