Harper softens support for Israel, responding to polls?

[fuzzylogix]

Gosh, Shannon! You DO surprise me!!!!!!!

I have to give you credit for, if not having actually read these books, to at least having bothered to GOOGLE to find out what they were!!!!!!

It is Howard Zinn, but that was likely a typo. So replace a leftist with a rightist historian!!! It doesnt change the history, just the attitude.

Gore Vidal's goal was not to befriend or excuse Tim McVeigh but as a lesson of understanding "Why?". Events dont happen out of mid air. Vidal is FAR from a looney bin. Looney bins are people who try to change a situation without asking and considering "WHY did this happen????"

I would word it that Bush is just as evil as Bin Laden, if you describe evil as a force that is increasing the horrors and dangers to all societies in the world. Chalmers has it absolutely correct.

If you dont think that the entire ecosystem of the world has to be considered in war, then you are nuts. The whole war in Iraq is over a limited resource!!! War creates immense damage to the ecosystem that affects the entire world- witness the horrendous post Gulf War oil fires, and now the destruction of the Lebanese coast line by the oil slick. Golly Gosh- let us not be so narrow minded as to look at the actual strategies of war in isolation from the reasons of war!!!!

There is no point studying FIGHTING TERRORISM if you are not prepared to UNDERSTAND terrorism.

PS- I hope you dont walk around wonderful cosmopolitan Montreal in that disgraceful hat!!!

 

[shannon]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

Gosh, Shannon! You DO surprise me!!!!!!!

I have to give you credit for, if not having actually read these books, to at least having bothered to GOOGLE to find out what they were!!!!!!

It is Howard Zinn, but that was likely a typo. So replace a leftist with a rightist historian!!! It doesnt change the history, just the attitude.

Gore Vidal's goal was not to befriend or excuse Tim McVeigh but as a lesson of understanding "Why?". Events dont happen out of mid air. Vidal is FAR from a looney bin. Looney bins are people who try to change a situation without asking and considering "WHY did this happen????"

I would word it that Bush is just as evil as Bin Laden, if you describe evil as a force that is increasing the horrors and dangers to all societies in the world. Chalmers has it absolutely correct.

If you dont think that the entire ecosystem of the world has to be considered in war, then you are nuts. The whole war in Iraq is over a limited resource!!! War creates immense damage to the ecosystem that affects the entire world- witness the horrendous post Gulf War oil fires, and now the destruction of the Lebanese coast line by the oil slick. Golly Gosh- let us not be so narrow minded as to look at the actual strategies of war in isolation from the reasons of war!!!!

There is no point studying FIGHTING TERRORISM if you are not prepared to UNDERSTAND terrorism.

PS- I hope you dont walk around wonderful cosmopolitan Montreal in that disgraceful hat!!!

Why not? It is my city of birth and I have every right to walk in it as I see fit. Although the city may have changed somewhat throughout the years, my views have not. I surely do not flip flop. I still support our troops, some of whom are now overseas helping us fight a global war against terror.

To those Canadians who do in fact support the terrorist organization, Hezbollah, they have clearly committed an act of treason. Supporting the enemy, especially when our troops are engaged in battle, is as low as you can possibly get. They are scum of the earth.

 

[BitWhys]

Canadians are fighting Hezbollah?

wow

last I heard they were observers but thanks to Israel even that has gone shot. go figure.

got a link?

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

Sanch, looks like you've been at the booze once again. I said no such thing. What I did say is that in our global war against terror, those states or individuals who support or harbor terrorists are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves. As we continue to hunt down the terrorists, those who harbor or support the terrorists are on our list as well. They ar eopen target. We need to maintain a zero tolerance approach towards terrorism, always. We can't let our guard down, not since the tragic events of 9/11.

Exactly who in Canada declared a war on terror as you describe it? Canada is part of a peace keeping effort in Afghanistan that is multi-dimensional and includes socio-economic programs by CIDA as well as a military involvement under NATO. Canadian troops are not authorized to go into a village in Afghanistan and shoot people just because the Taliban have used the area. There is no Canadian mission or directives to this effect.

So this version of the global war on terrorism that you are spouting on about is not based on Canadian policy. And Canada is not involved in any military action in Lebanon and so there is no "our list." There seems to be a Shannon list that calls for the execution of Canadians because you don't like where they are living. A terrorist was just picked up recently who had resided in Montreal. By definition you were harboring that person as you live and pay taxes in the city and so you should be on your list.

Shannon you are just an angry white man who is taking the war on terror as a referent to attack people and groups you don't like. Be honest about it. How many guns do you have stacked under your bed?

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

To those Canadians who do in fact support the terrorist organization, Hezbollah, they have clearly committed an act of treason. Supporting the enemy, especially when our troops are engaged in battle, is as low as you can possibly get. They are scum of the earth.

You do realize that more young children have been killed by Israelis than Hezbollah soldiers. Are you saying these children are guilty of treason?

I interpret the last sentence again as your attack on Canadians you do not like and want to see killed.

 

[shannon]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

Canadians are fighting Hezbollah?

wow

last I heard they were observers but thanks to Israel even that has gone shot. go figure.

got a link?

No, Canadians are not fighting Hezbollah in particular, we are fighting terrorists in general. Since 9/11, Canada has been one of the countries that has been involved in the global war against terror. That means we go after terrorist organizations, wherever they may be. Borders don't apply here. A terrorist organization is a terrorist organization, I do not distinguish between Al Qaeda and Hezbollah.

 

[shannon]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

Sanch, looks like you've been at the booze once again. I said no such thing. What I did say is that in our global war against terror, those states or individuals who support or harbor terrorists are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves. As we continue to hunt down the terrorists, those who harbor or support the terrorists are on our list as well. They ar eopen target. We need to maintain a zero tolerance approach towards terrorism, always. We can't let our guard down, not since the tragic events of 9/11.

Exactly who in Canada declared a war on terror as you describe it? Canada is part of a peace keeping effort in Afghanistan that is multi-dimensional and includes socio-economic programs by CIDA as well as a military involvement under NATO. Canadian troops are not authorized to go into a village in Afghanistan and shoot people just because the Taliban have used the area. There is no Canadian mission or directives to this effect.

We are sure as hell involved in a global war against terror with many of our other allies (the US, UK, Australia ...). Our troops are dying at the hands of the Taliban fighting this war in Afghanistan and you critisize that we are not involved in it. How can you downplay what our soldiers face every day? You my friend are not helping in keeping up the moral level amungst our troops.

Sanch, looks like you've been at the booze once again. I said no such thing. What I did say is that in our global war against terror, those states or individuals who support or harbor terrorists are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves. As we continue to hunt down the terrorists, those who harbor or support the terrorists are on our list as well. They ar eopen target. We need to maintain a zero tolerance approach towards terrorism, always. We can't let our guard down, not since the tragic events of 9/11.

So this version of the global war on terrorism that you are spouting on about is not based on Canadian policy. And Canada is not involved in any military action in Lebanon and so there is no "our list." There seems to be a Shannon list that calls for the execution of Canadians because you don't like where they are living. A terrorist was just picked up recently who had resided in Montreal. By definition you were harboring that person as you live and pay taxes in the city and so you should be on your list.

It looks like you are clearly clueless. As Canadians, we had officially listed Hezbollah as a terrorist organization back in 2002 (I've already noted this earlier several times). So yes, Hezbollah is on our list. That makes Hezbollah members our enemy and open target in our ongoing war against terror.

 

[shannon]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

To those Canadians who do in fact support the terrorist organization, Hezbollah, they have clearly committed an act of treason. Supporting the enemy, especially when our troops are engaged in battle, is as low as you can possibly get. They are scum of the earth.

You do realize that more young children have been killed by Israelis than Hezbollah soldiers. Are you saying these children are guilty of treason?

I interpret the last sentence again as your attack on Canadians you do not like and want to see killed.

First off, unintentional civilian casualties will always occur in a war, as they cannot be avoided. Second off, Hezbollah deliberately targets civilians, thus we have labelled them terrorists. Thirdly, in your siding with Hezbollah , I interpret this as an act of treason since we are fighting global terrorism and you are siding with a terrorist organization. Lastly, you are off your rocker ... plain and simple.

The very thought of it .. .siding with the terrorists instead of our troops.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

Canadians are fighting Hezbollah?

wow

last I heard they were observers but thanks to Israel even that has gone shot. go figure.

got a link?

No, Canadians are not fighting Hezbollah in particular, we are fighting terrorists in general. Since 9/11, Canada has been one of the countries that has been involved in the global war against terror. That means we go after terrorist organizations, wherever they may be. Borders don't apply here. A terrorist organization is a terrorist organization, I do not distinguish between Al Qaeda and Hezbollah.

Where have Canadians gone after terrorists organizations - aside from Afganistan and here at home? If you mean non-aggressively, I guess I'll buy that.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

[

It looks like you are clearly clueless. As Canadians, we had officially listed Hezbollah as a terrorist organization back in 2002 (I've already noted this earlier several times). So yes, Hezbollah is on our list. That makes Hezbollah members our enemy and open target in our ongoing war against terror.

A target for what, not our bombs?

 

[sanch]

Well Shannon you didn't answer any of the questions. I have been very clear on this board about my position on terrorism. Israel has every right to defend itself. I am pro the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. I have also taken issue with individuals who have made extreme statements about Americans similar to the ones you are making about Lebanese Canadians. And I haven't defended Hezbollah at all.

I am simply pointing out that this jihad you have against other Canadians living in Lebanon is based on your personal hatred and not any Canadian policy toward terrorism. I am objecting to the way you are including innocent children and civilians in this holy war you have percolating in your brain.

Here is your quote:

To those Canadians who do in fact support the terrorist organization, Hezbollah, they have clearly committed an act of treason. Supporting the enemy, especially when our troops are engaged in battle, is as low as you can possibly get. They are scum of the earth.

Here is what you wrote in another thread:

No, on the contrary things will get complicated for the Canadians who choose to live in an area inhabited by the Hezbollah terrorists. These folks have been hiding in a closet for the past 5 years. In case they forget, we are involved in an ongoing global war on terror. The global war on terror is not about borders, but about targeting terrorist groups. Anyone who harbors these terrorists is also open target.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=238326&highlight=#238326

You do understand the difference between the two statements above and this one below that you also wrote. Above you are saying that the scope of who is a terrorist be broadened to include everyone who happens to be living in south Lebanon and that they all are legitimate targets. This is very different than civilians who are accidentally killed in a war zone.

First off, unintentional civilian casualties will always occur in a war, as they cannot be avoided.

 

[shannon]

Well Shannon you didn't answer any of the questions. I have been very clear on this board about my position on terrorism. Israel has every right to defend itself. I am pro the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. I have also taken issue with individuals who have made extreme statements about Americans similar to the ones you are making about Lebanese Canadians. And I haven't defended Hezbollah at all.

I am simply pointing out that this jihad you have against other Canadians living in Lebanon is based on your personal hatred and not any Canadian policy toward terrorism. I am objecting to the way you are including innocent children and civilians in this holy war you have percolating in your brain.

Here is your quote:

To those Canadians who do in fact support the terrorist organization, Hezbollah, they have clearly committed an act of treason. Supporting the enemy, especially when our troops are engaged in battle, is as low as you can possibly get. They are scum of the earth.

Here is what you wrote in another thread:

No, on the contrary things will get complicated for the Canadians who choose to live in an area inhabited by the Hezbollah terrorists. These folks have been hiding in a closet for the past 5 years. In case they forget, we are involved in an ongoing global war on terror. The global war on terror is not about borders, but about targeting terrorist groups. Anyone who harbors these terrorists is also open target.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=238326&highlight=#238326

You do understand the difference between the two statements above and this one below that you also wrote. Above you are saying that the scope of who is a terrorist be broadened to include everyone who happens to be living in south Lebanon and that they all are legitimate targets. This is very different than civilians who are accidentally killed in a war zone.

First off, unintentional civilian casualties will always occur in a war, as they cannot be avoided.

Buy some glasses if you can't read plain English, Sanch. Harboring a terrorist and living in an area inhabited by terrorists are two different things. I said anyone who harbors terrorists is open target, not anyone who mearly lives in the southern region. Read my posting once again if you failed to get it the first time. If you still can't grasp the two different concepts, then perhaps a remedial class in English would be in order.[/b]

 

[sanch]

Here is your quote:

To those Canadians who do in fact support the terrorist organization, Hezbollah, they have clearly committed an act of treason. Supporting the enemy, especially when our troops are engaged in battle, is as low as you can possibly get. They are scum of the earth.

Here is what you wrote in another thread:

No, on the contrary things will get complicated for the Canadians who choose to live in an area inhabited by the Hezbollah terrorists. These folks have been hiding in a closet for the past 5 years. In case they forget, we are involved in an ongoing global war on terror. The global war on terror is not about borders, but about targeting terrorist groups. Anyone who harbors these terrorists is also open target.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=238326&highlight=#238326

There is a whole paragraph and not just one sentence that needs to be considered here. Also to give it more context I should have included my post which is what you were reacting to. There is no ambiguity at all in what you were suggesting. Your posts are full of "our" this and "our" that but you provide no references as to how this relates to policy. If all these "our (s)" are so clear why do you not provide sources?

As it stands you are simply involved in your own psychotic war that has no support in Canadian policy or law.

 

[shannon]

Here is your quote:

To those Canadians who do in fact support the terrorist organization, Hezbollah, they have clearly committed an act of treason. Supporting the enemy, especially when our troops are engaged in battle, is as low as you can possibly get. They are scum of the earth.

Here is what you wrote in another thread:

No, on the contrary things will get complicated for the Canadians who choose to live in an area inhabited by the Hezbollah terrorists. These folks have been hiding in a closet for the past 5 years. In case they forget, we are involved in an ongoing global war on terror. The global war on terror is not about borders, but about targeting terrorist groups. Anyone who harbors these terrorists is also open target.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=238326&highlight=#238326

There is a whole paragraph and not just one sentence that needs to be considered here. Also to give it more context I should have included my post which is what you were reacting to. There is no ambiguity at all in what you were suggesting. Your posts are full of "our" this and "our" that but you provide no references as to how this relates to policy. If all these "our (s)" are so clear why do you not provide sources?

As it stands you are simply involved in your own psychotic war that has no support in Canadian policy or law.

My war? First off, my Prime Minister, Stephen Harper has stated that we are indeed actively involved in the war against terror. I'll take his word over yours any day, thank you. If you still fail to realize that we're fighting a global war against terror, here's a column that will shed some light for you ...

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22476

Secondly, I said "my" Prime Minister as I noticed you're situated within the US of A. I'm very surprised that you'd be taken aback at my views as they are clearly the very same views supported by your Republican government. Your President has repeated my very same arguments numerous times since the global war against terror started about 5 years ago.

Why do you act so surprised?

 

[BitWhys]

Your President has repeated my very same arguments numerous times since the global war against terror started about 5 years ago.

yeah. how's that going for you guys, anyways?

 

[Nathaniel]

Colpy as usual I agree with what you say.

I want to know why the left is so intent on making anything Harper says evil.

You know the next leader of the liberal party will probably be one who has the same stance on the middle east as harper has.

I swear the left on this board and in this country are all about propaganda. EVERYTHING is twisted.

 

[Nathaniel]

Are you guys really trying to say that Harper was talking about the future of the confilict when he said he is sure Israel has made a "measured response"???

and I am also hard pressed to see how his position CHANGED, he simply said that now it is very hard to say what the appropriate action is. Granted that is a diplomatic thing to say. But as YOU ALL SHOULD KNOW we as Canada don't really have a say in what Israel should or shouldn't do, we dont' have all the details, we aren't the ones being attacked by terrorists, I have said it before and I will say it again.. (granted this time a shorter version)

Who are WE to demand anything in this crisis.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Harper softens support for Israel, responding to pol

I want to know why the left is so intent on making anything Harper says evil.

Because in many cases all they have to go by to make a point is invoke emotions.

 

[fuzzylogix]

Sigh
Here comes the rhetoric again
From the boards ITN
Joined by Nathaniel
Leftie is a word
They both can spell

Nathaniel, lefties don't disagree with Harper's statements just because he is conservative. They disagree with his stance. And yes, if a Liberal takes the same stance to ally themselves (and therefore by proxy, me) with Bush in the American Imperialization of the world, then I certainly will disagree with their views. Politicians arent really representing ANY party these days- ergo what does it matter really when they cross the floor- they dont care about what party they represent!

Who are WE to demand a say in critical world issues???????
Well Nathaniel, I would say that Canada is a major country in the world that professes to be a peace loving peace promoting nation, that cares about issues that may lead to a more extensive war that requires more of our troops to be sent to slaughter and to be slaughtered. I would say that we are a nation of many cultures with many citizens from homelands in the area of the Middle East who are directly affected by this war right now. I would say we are a powerful wealthy nation who has the potential to truely assist in a peace process, as long as we arent just sucked in to follow the US stance.

But, there I go getting my leftist emotions all heated up. I should just go and watch some nice pacifying mind numbing Cultural American TV like Survivor or Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire!!!!!!

 

[sanch]

Shannon I don't think this article at all supports the view about Lebanese Canadians that you have been espousing. If this is the level of article you typically read it clarifies why you post what you do.

As a counter here is an article by Pat Buchannan who is a conservative explaining the liabllity of an overly broad definition of terrorism. I'll include another article by Bob Novak another conservative.

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/RobertDNovak/2006/08/07/dealing_with_israel

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/PatrickJBuchanan/2006/08/08/condis_new_middle_east