Harper pledges.......

[Ocean Breeze]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/03/harper-drugs051203.html


(minimum drug sentences. )....

he might have just lost the election :wink:


(realize there are a couple of threads about this Harper chap....so making this one more general. .....Let the Harper bashing begin.. :wink:

 

[the caracal kid]

as also mentioned in the posted article, i found Layton's assertion of getting tougher with the US more constructive than Harper's prison blues.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

as also mentioned in the posted article, i found Layton's assertion of getting tougher with the US more constructive than Harper's prison blues.

Me too. Layton is starting to look better all the time....

hmmm. :idea:

 

[I think not]

"The terms would apply to people convicted of trafficking, manufacturing or importing hard drugs, such as heroin, cocaine and crystal methamphetamine, Harper said Saturday during an election stop in Burnaby, B.C."

Why would he lose the elections over this? I'm just curious.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/02/elxn-harper-healthcare.html

Promises shorter waiting periods for health services.


.......promises and pledges aside.. HOW does he propose to do all this??

 

[no1important]

His tough on crime approach will not work. It is a failure in America and would be here. Too much money to be made. If he wants to control it, kegalize and regulate all drugs.

 

[mrmom2]

You've got to wonder how the feck we can afford any of these promises Layton Martin and Harper have been making without a significant tax increase :evil: A bunch of pure fecking liars :twisted: I hope all there tour busses crash and burn with them in inside :lol:

 

[Breakthrough2006]

I'm curious to know what some other people think is a solution.

If a crack dealer gets caught selling crack to kids in a schoolyard, what shoud the government do if prison is such a bad option?

 

[Reverend Blair]

That depends on the crack dealer, Breakthrough. Most street-level dealers are selling drugs to pay for their own addiction. Treatment, including providing maintenance levels of the drug, is something that needs to be seriously looked at.

What we know both from out own past experience and by looking at the US model is that the kind of prohibitions that Harper is talking about make the problem worse, not better. They encourage dealers and importers because the profit margin becomes so high.

They also lead to really stupid situations like people growing pot for their own use or to provide medical marijuana getting tossed in prison because of some puritanical laws that were passed almost a century ago based largely on racism and corporate profits.

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

His tough on crime approach will not work. It is a failure in America and would be here. Too much money to be made. If he wants to control it, kegalize and regulate all drugs.

Agreed. He won't score any points with me on that one. Didn't even the Fraser Institute come out in favour of legalization?

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

His tough on crime approach will not work. It is a failure in America and would be here. Too much money to be made. If he wants to control it, kegalize and regulate all drugs.

Agreed. He won't score any points with me on that one. Didn't even the Fraser Institute come out in favour of legalization?

Yeah.

Marijuana should be legalized.

I am very divided on the question of legalization of all drugs, but in the end I think I would go for prohibition on the hard stuff.

I do have a BIG problem with mandatory sentencing. It removes so much of the courts ability to dispense justice, as opposed to law.

It shows a lack of faith in our judges abilities.

We need good people on the bench, not political arse-kissers, nor laws restricticting their options.

 

[#juan]

Hey, we could fill our prisons with teenagers just like the states. It didn't solve their problem asnd it won't solve ours.

 

[MMMike]

See Colpy, I'd go for legalization even for the hardest drugs. Making it illegal doesn't keep it off the street, it doesn't keep people from getting addicted. What it does do is push these people further onto the margins of society. It also puts the power and revenue into the hands of organized crime.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Hey, we could fill our prisons with teenagers just like the states. It didn't solve their problem asnd it won't solve ours.

Actually, that depends if you believe that the US is trying to address the drug problem by tossing people into jail. It seems a whole lot more like class warfare when you start looking at the numbers.

I am very divided on the question of legalization of all drugs, but in the end I think I would go for prohibition on the hard stuff.

We had much less of a drug problem when you could buy heroin over the counter in pharmacies. Prohibitions exacerbate the problem, they don't solve it.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

See Colpy, I'd go for legalization even for the hardest drugs. Making it illegal doesn't keep it off the street, it doesn't keep people from getting addicted. What it does do is push these people further onto the margins of society. It also puts the power and revenue into the hands of organized crime.

Which is a very good argument.

But making it legal sure doesn't keep it off the street, it makes it an option for a class of "curious but yellow" folks, and it suggests societal approval.

I am divided, and could be convinced either way.

This from an old-time druggie, back in the early 70s

 

[Reverend Blair]

What's the problem with societal...it's not really approval, more like non-stigmatisation? If people show up to work sober and do their jobs, why would it matter if they spend their evenings doing drugs?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

His tough on crime approach will not work. It is a failure in America and would be here. Too much money to be made. If he wants to control it, kegalize and regulate all drugs.

I get the impression that the Cons have a plan to privatize the prison system?

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper pledges.......

His tough on crime approach will not work. It is a failure in America and would be here. Too much money to be made. If he wants to control it, kegalize and regulate all drugs.

I get the impression that the Cons have a plan to privatize the prison system?

Not that I ever heard of, and it would not be a plan that I would approve of.

 

[#juan]

Vanni Fucci wrote:

I get the impression that the Cons have a plan to privatize the prison system?

Gee I wonder where he might have got an idea like that... :wink:

http://tinyurl.com/bel7w

 

[Reverend Blair]

Private prisons would be the next step. What happened in the US is that the huge number of people incarcerated because of the phony war on drugs increased costs massively. The government then began to privatise the industry as a cost saving measure, because that's what neo-cons do.

Human rights groups have expressed grave concern about this trend because prisoners have been denied access to proper medical care, safe environments, and even proper food in many private facilities.

If Harper were to begin incarcerating people at the same rate the US does, he would quickly have to follow the same path. The US prison problem is a direct off-shoot of their failed drug policies and is exacerbated by the neo-conservative push to privatise public institutions. Harper wants to institute those same polices here. We will end up with the same result.