Guilt

Tecumsehsbones

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Is it a wasted emotion or are we wasting it? It could be used to seek empathy, to learn from our mistakes.
Don't need guilt to have empathy.

We may have lost how to effectively use guilt to heal ourselves.
Want to heal yourself? Go work to put right what you done wrong, instead of sitting around self-flagellating and pretending it makes a difference.

Evolution has not removed it so maybe we are just too selfish to see how it should be used?
Evolution probably didn't put it there, and even if it did, that don't make it a good thing. A trait can be useless or even harmful and survive, e.g. the vermiform appendix.
 

Count_Lothian

Time Out
Apr 6, 2014
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mmm...maybe it's a Catholic hold over but I think guilt can serve a purpose in that it can nudge the conscience and causes us to exam why we are feeling badly about our behaviour

if I get overwhelmed at work and bark at someone in anger, feeling bad about it later when I am out of the situation will cause me to examine my behaviour and apologize

but I do feel there is healthy guilt and unhealthy guilt

Exactly the thing. I'm Catholic , and have learned back in the day the best sex was with Catholic Girls. I'm talking 40 years ago and times were different.
the only thing guilt is good for is when applied to sex. A Catholic Girl felt more than the Protestant ones because they knew they were doing wrong(kids we are talking 40 years ago)

Now the Jewish girls!!!!, they knew all about guilt , to the extent they would just lie there and let you have your way and not even be there whilst having sex with you.



In all seriousness Sal,

Guilt is what kicks in after you decide you did wrong. The mind analyzes the conscience and then the societal learned behavioral cause guilt.

Consciences one feels turn to guilt due to behavioral upbringing.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
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Don't need guilt to have empathy.

Maybe that is why we have empathy though. To help prevent us from feeling guilt. Maybe we learned how to empathize because of guilt


Want to heal yourself? Go work to put right what you done wrong, instead of sitting around self-flagellating and pretending it makes a difference.

Well that's a bit harsh.


Evolution probably didn't put it there, and even if it did, that don't make it a good thing. A trait can be useless or even harmful and survive, e.g. the vermiform appendix.

Where else would it have come from if not through evolution? It can be used as a motivator to do the "right the wrong instead of sitting around self-flagellating and pretending it makes a difference"

I don't think a person would make any reparations if there were no guilt involved.
 

QuebecCanadian

Electoral Member
Apr 13, 2014
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Exactly the thing. I'm Catholic , and have learned back in the day the best sex was with Catholic Girls. I'm talking 40 years ago and times were different.
the only thing guilt is good for is when applied to sex. A Catholic Girl felt more than the Protestant ones because they knew they were doing wrong(kids we are talking 40 years ago)

Now the Jewish girls!!!!, they knew all about guilt , to the extent they would just lie there and let you have your way and not even be there whilst having sex with you.



In all seriousness Sal,

Guilt is what kicks in after you decide you did wrong. The mind analyzes the conscience and then the societal learned behavioral cause guilt.

Consciences one feels turn to guilt due to behavioral upbringing.

I dunno Count. Billy Joel didn't see it that way.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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I dunno Count. Billy Joel didn't see it that way.
yeah but then he thought only the good died young too ;-)

Think I've been watching too much Hannibal but:

Lack of guilt in people with psychopathy

Individuals high in psychopathy lack any true sense of guilt or remorse for harm they may have caused others. Instead, they rationalize their behavior, blame someone else, or deny it outright.[15] A person with psychopathy has a tendency to be harmful to his or herself and to others. They have little ability to plan ahead for the future. An individual with psychopathy will never find themselves at fault because, they will do whatever it takes to benefit themselves without reservation. A person that does not feel guilt or remorse would have no reason to find themselves at fault for something that they did with the intention of hurting another person. To a person high in psychopathy, their actions can always be rationalized to be the fault of another person.[16] This is seen by psychologists as part of a lack of moral reasoning (in comparison with the majority of humans), an inability to evaluate situations in a moral framework, and an inability to develop emotional bonds with other people due in part to a low emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is the ability to understand and assess the emotions of others
 

QuebecCanadian

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Apr 13, 2014
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yeah but then he thought only the good died young too ;-)

Think I've been watching too much Hannibal but:

Lack of guilt in people with psychopathy

Individuals high in psychopathy lack any true sense of guilt or remorse for harm they may have caused others. Instead, they rationalize their behavior, blame someone else, or deny it outright.[15] A person with psychopathy has a tendency to be harmful to his or herself and to others. They have little ability to plan ahead for the future. An individual with psychopathy will never find themselves at fault because, they will do whatever it takes to benefit themselves without reservation. A person that does not feel guilt or remorse would have no reason to find themselves at fault for something that they did with the intention of hurting another person. To a person high in psychopathy, their actions can always be rationalized to be the fault of another person.[16] This is seen by psychologists as part of a lack of moral reasoning (in comparison with the majority of humans), an inability to evaluate situations in a moral framework, and an inability to develop emotional bonds with other people due in part to a low emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is the ability to understand and assess the emotions of others
I know the guy they used as a case study! This applies to sociopaths who feel no guilt or empathy but that's not what we're saying....at least not me. I say yes, I feel guilt but I deal with it. I apologize or I get over it because otherwise it festers and eats at me. It's a definite emotion, no doubt. Just not a positive one.
 

Sal

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Sep 29, 2007
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I know the guy they used as a case study! This applies to sociopaths who feel no guilt or empathy but that's not what we're saying....at least not me. I say yes, I feel guilt but I deal with it. I apologize or I get over it because otherwise it festers and eats at me. It's a definite emotion, no doubt. Just not a positive one.
for real...or just saying you know someone they could have used as a case study?

I just thought I would throw this into the mix because I believe there are different types of guilt; one is destructive but the other can be useful as a guide

don't know...it's just one of the things I am contemplating as I age...things shift and values change and some held beliefs need to be re-evaluated I guess...

love getting input, it accelerates the process. ;-)
 

Count_Lothian

Time Out
Apr 6, 2014
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I stand by what i said.
All the king's horses and all the king's psychiatrists cannot actually define guilt other than it is a learned behavioral experience.

Going to the extent of calling it the workings of the criminal mind if you don't feel any, is just juxtaposition on the part of psychiatrists' craft. A craft sometimes influenced by behavioral science over evolutionary science, to the point they prove it is evolutionary.
 

QuebecCanadian

Electoral Member
Apr 13, 2014
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for real...or just saying you know someone they could have used as a case study?

I just thought I would throw this into the mix because I believe there are different types of guilt; one is destructive but the other can be useful as a guide

don't know...it's just one of the things I am contemplating as I age...things shift and values change and some held beliefs need to be re-evaluated I guess...

love getting input, it accelerates the process. ;-)

Funny, as I age I feel I am becoming less philosophical. Dare I say leaning more to the right with time. Things are not so grey any more. The whites and blacks are more defined.

It's kind of like...when I was a young adult I'd listen to Signs by the Five Man Electrical Band and think. "Yeah, stick it to the man! Man!" but now I just think "Get a job, ya bum!"

I think.....I'm becoming.....a curmudgeon!!
 

Sal

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Sep 29, 2007
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Funny, as I age I feel I am becoming less philosophical. Dare I say leaning more to the right with time. Things are not so grey any more. The whites and blacks are more defined.

It's kind of like...when I was a young adult I'd listen to Signs by the Five Man Electrical Band and think. "Yeah, stick it to the man! Man!" but now I just think "Get a job, ya bum!"

I think.....I'm becoming.....a curmudgeon!!
for me I started off left...stick it to the man...then I worked in sales management for years and it was all about driving the profit baby...production was my life and I leaned right for the most part...now I'm aging I shuffle back and forth but am returning to my roots albeit with a get a job you lazy b*stard so that those who need it can have your share......mostly it's the kids who don't have who break my heart...and there are a lot of them...and we are producing more and will need a lot more jails...or we could save them young and make them productive

my black and white is in sharper focus...but it's a grey world
 

QuebecCanadian

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Apr 13, 2014
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for me I started off left...stick it to the man...then I worked in sales management for years and it was all about driving the profit baby...production was my life and I leaned right for the most part...now I'm aging I shuffle back and forth but am returning to my roots albeit with a get a job you lazy b*stard so that those who need it can have your share......mostly it's the kids who don't have who break my heart...and there are a lot of them...and we are producing more and will need a lot more jails...or we could save them young and make them productive

my black and white is in sharper focus...but it's a grey world

A lot of kids who don't have and a lot of kids who have too much.

But we digress. Hmmmm....fodder for another thread perhaps. :)
 

Ludlow

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Jun 7, 2014
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What is guilt?

It can have value or be destructive.....no?
The opposite of innocence. Sometimes I wonder if we over analyze everything. At any rate, I feel guilty when my behavior or something I have done, whether intentionally or not, harms another person , and there are many times in my life that has happened. I don't dwell on it, or beat myself to death for it. But there is remorse. If there was no remorse, no guilty conscience, I would be an uncaring sociopath and I would try to justify my bad behavior, regardless of who I've hurt. I think sooner or later common sense needs to come into play when we try and dissect every single human emotion, put it in a box and say, there's the answer, in that little box over there. I'm not so sure psychology is so much an exact science, as it is an exploration of what might be .
 

Twila

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Mar 26, 2003
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What keeps us on the straight and narrow? If not guilt then perfection?

This is very quotable...Is this a DB original? If not coin it quick.

And some here profess to be already perfected. Which must be pleasant indeed.

I don't think one should ever get/be "perfect". Whats left to change, to grow, to enjoy, or feel awe over? It would be a sad existence...Which might make it a paradox...
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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This is very quotable...Is this a DB original? If not coin it quick.



I don't think one should ever get/be "perfect". Whats left to change, to grow, to enjoy, or feel awe over? It would be a sad existence...Which might make it a paradox...

I'm certain it isn\t, nothing new under the sun. You can have it cuz I 'll never remember it long anyway.

And I mean no disrespect to the perfected. I sometimes wonder over there till I'm rescued by the next post.

This is very quotable...Is this a DB original? If not coin it quick.



I don't think one should ever get/be "perfect". Whats left to change, to grow, to enjoy, or feel awe over? It would be a sad existence...Which might make it a paradox...

Ya there\s nothing left to do, you\ve exhausted all the channels the chips are gpone, yer finally free, it's going to be boring this pefection thing, I can wait