Greatest Empire Ever

[The Gunslinger]

Daz_Hockey, America didn't colonize the continent. They pruchased Louisiana, won the Oregon territory through a peace treaty, united with Texas, and grabbed California from the Mexicans. All that land was under control of someone else, not indiginous peoples. And they didn't claim it as freedom, read up on Manifest Destiny. If it hadn't been them, it would have been somebody else.

And Britain may have been better than the United States at dealing with the natives, but the French were better than th English before the French and Indian Wars (7 Years War). The vast majority of the natives sided with the French in that litle war.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

Sorry anyway, I dont dislike America, or Americans, but you have to realise that most of the world doesnt see history from one point of view, I' came back a few months ago from a trip all around the USA, and I was shocked, it was almost like a cult, we question our authority here, of course so do you, but it's just different, we dont believe our historical figures were saints...no pun intended....but you are an empire

 

[The Gunslinger]

Jersay, I believe that the Vikings did do all that, I think it just lacks the cohesion of an empire.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

colonise is such a vast word, they "aquired", but then we "aquired" a lot of land too, dutch east india company, a lot of the land we had was from greements, hong kong for example, but they, ok canada and the rest of the america's are sitting on land that wasnt oridginally theres, so the argument against colonialsm flys out the window

 

[Jersay]

Jersay, I believe that the Vikings did do all that, I think it just lacks the cohesion of an empire.

Maybe, but what about a loose empire. Because there were incidents of Norse or Vikings siding against each other, Rollo as one of them, but i stillthink they had a structure that could be classed an empire, a loose empire.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

I reckon were forgetting Rupert Murdoch's empire as well...that's bleedin global

 

[The Gunslinger]

Nature abhors a vacuum Daz_Hockey. The increasing immigration from Europe naturally meant to a push on the frontier, and since there were only a few people they they got caught in the tide. It may not have been right at the time, but at the time, they viewed it as good as well as necessary.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Greatest Empire Ever

1. you didnt kick our asses (what the hell is canada eh?), did you know the only time Europe has been united is when they fought, for you against us. you did none of it on ur own.

That's Canadas problem, not ours. And yep, you were a problem to them, like you have been with just about everybody else you decided to conquer in the name of your monarchy. And nice try, the French didn't help till we got all the way North. I know it's hard for you to digest a puny colony with pitchforks stomped the Great British Empire, but hey, there it is.

2. Washington was the traitor, begging to join us then throwing his toys out of the pram when we said no, could not tell a lie my backside.

He was a traitor to you, he liberated us from the oppressive evil British Empire. Jolly good man I tell ya.

3. You continued to colonise north american LONG after we left you, we did too, but we never claimed it as "freedom"

That's correct, you think we were going to let you have it? There was no "freedom" back then, it was all an acquisition expansion. And, no, you shed blood in the name of your monarchy. What do you say? Time for your own revolution?

4. the channel islands were given to the soldiers of King William the first for taking new land .i.e. england, and because of this, they were allowed not to pay any taxes, and were answerable to only the crown, this was over 700 years before the US.

Ah, well next time your monarchy decides to GIVE something, make sure it's actually theirs, mmk?

5. Oh yes, we have slaughtered countless millions, but strange, the facts about india above...if we were tht bad, they could easily kill us, and I think u'll find Canada was the first north american country to pay at least a little respect to the natives...Navanut I think.

Really? How could the Indians kick you out, with famines as a result of destructive British policies?

6. Just an example but, Ghandi went and stayed in the east end of london with the poor to emphises that his people were just like a lot of ours, you had to have a certain amount of money to travel to the new world, so, compared to a lot of people in england at the time, it was indeed YOU who were the rich, so as I say, to many other countries, your little french/spanish/dutch kinda united Europe and little old USA against England + a few german mercinerys wasnt such a surprise victory after all.

The US was rich? Bwahahaha! Quit while you're ahead.

These ARE facts

Your version.

 

[Alfie]

Re: RE: Greatest Empire Ever

colonise is such a vast word, they "aquired", but then we "aquired" a lot of land too, dutch east india company, a lot of the land we had was from greements, hong kong for example, but they, ok canada and the rest of the america's are sitting on land that wasnt oridginally theres, so the argument against colonialsm flys out the window

Do you folks mind if I 'aquire' it back? :lol:

 

[Jersay]

Daz_Hockey, America didn't colonize the continent. They pruchased Louisiana, won the Oregon territory through a peace treaty, united with Texas, and grabbed California from the Mexicans. All that land was under control of someone else, not indiginous peoples. And they didn't claim it as freedom, read up on Manifest Destiny. If it hadn't been them, it would have been somebody else.

And Britain may have been better than the United States at dealing with the natives, but the French were better than th English before the French and Indian Wars (7 Years War). The vast majority of the natives sided with the French in that litle war.

Now Britain didn't acquire all of its land through conflict but it still considered a colonial power. So therefore, America only begins from the Mississipi River East. Every thing else is colonized territory, either through trade and war.

And Mexico and France had small populations in Louisiana and their territory so the large population was indigenous. Which resulted in colonizing wars that resulted in the natives landing on reserves.

 

[The Gunslinger]

It's just that it would have happened regardless of who was there. It just happened that America won out.

 

[Jersay]

Do you folks mind if I 'aquire' it back?

Sure you can have it back. But first you have to talk to politicians now.

It is a long, long process.

 

[Jersay]

It's just that it would have happened regardless of who was there. It just happened that America won out.

In 1800, most Americans didn't think they would expand at all. Maybe minimally through war, but not that much.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

come on you were rich, you are rich....you did not beat us, do you honestly think your "puny colony" would have survived Napoleon's roving eye if it wernt for the british empire patrolling the high sea's for 300 years?.

Washington was in it up to his neck with the merchants, they did not want the british in because they were making too much profit themselves, he was no hero.

The poor mases didnt arrive in america till long after we withdrew to the north, oh yes, most of the british population were VERY poor indeed, much poorer than the large land owners with their "pitch forks" lol.

if Britain honestly wanted America bck then, they would have taken it, if it took years they would have done it, the fact is the whole country was split on the issue, I bet they dont teach you about the UK Prime minister William Pitt the younger who died of a heart attack begging the parliment to stop taxing the americas?.

plus, you realise the real first world war was going on France vs. Britain, how the heck are wars paid for eh?, or did you wanna be ruled by the french, oh they were lovely, the fench indo-chinese begged us to stay or the japs too cus the french were so crewl

 

[darkbeaver]

Neat thing about that DNA thingy what.
I,ll vote for the American Empire because they invented the
Cheeze Burger, and I,am afraid if I don,t vote for it they,ll bomb me.

 

[Jersay]

Actually ITN, there is evidence new evidence and theory that because of things going on elsewhere in the world, that Britain just gave America up. They didn't fight as hard as they could of.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

agreed.....Many of the british aristocracy still had money over there after the war....little fact, did you know the US Embassy in london (the court of st. James) is the only US Embassy not to be owned by the US?...it's owned by the duke of westminster in return for a rent of about $1.50 canadian a year, because they wanted to buy it from him, he said "let's do a swap", can I have my land back in north america?....they said sure, where is it?.

North Carolina he said, where in North Carolina they said, "nope, north Carolina" was his response so they came to a compromise funny but true story

 

[Alfie]

Do you folks mind if I 'aquire' it back?

Sure you can have it back. But first you have to talk to politicians now.

It is a long, long process.

naw..you can keep it. ..just kidding.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Greatest Empire Ever

come on you were rich, you are rich....you did not beat us, do you honestly think your "puny colony" would have survived Napoleon's roving eye if it wernt for the british empire patrolling the high sea's for 300 years?.

Well if you want to believe we were rich, fine by me. And for the record you weren't "patrolling" anything, you were safeguarding the British Empire.

Washington was in it up to his neck with the merchants, they did not want the british in because they were making too much profit themselves, he was no hero.

He was hero enough to turn a colony into an independent country, how many more years have to pass till you Brits finally get over it?

The poor mases didnt arrive in america till long after we withdrew to the north, oh yes, most of the british population were VERY poor indeed, much poorer than the large land owners with their "pitch forks" lol.

The British population was poor because of your monarchy's greed and you somehow still wave at them :lol:

if Britain honestly wanted America bck then, they would have taken it, if it took years they would have done it, the fact is the whole country was split on the issue, I bet they dont teach you about the UK Prime minister William Pitt the younger who died of a heart attack begging the parliment to stop taxing the americas?.

Well he said, she said, hsitory is written in blood, what if scenarios don't apply. And yes I know about William Pitt, although I wasn't taught about him in school, I bet you weren't taught about the British massacre in Kenya, right?

plus, you realise the real first world war was going on France vs. Britain, how the heck are wars paid for eh?, or did you wanna be ruled by the french, oh they were lovely, the fench indo-chinese begged us to stay or the japs too cus the french were so crewl

Well let's ask the Irish, the Scots, the Indians, Kenyans who they think were lovelier? You or the French? Hmmmm.

Sorry dude, I like the Brits, always have, I have studied your history as best as I can and I know your version of the American Revolution. Of course their are mulitple points of view in History, that's what makes it interesting. Your view of it doesn't necessarily make it the right one, or wrong one, justa different point of view. If it gets you through the day thinking the US is an empire, who the hell am I to tell you differently, perhaps it is and I can't see it, but when I compare it to all other empires in history, I can see some similarity, but nothing remotely close to anything resembling an empire.

 

[I think not]

Neat thing about that DNA thingy what.
I,ll vote for the American Empire because they invented the
Cheeze Burger, and I,am afraid if I don,t vote for it they,ll bomb me.

And don't you forget it :twisted:

Actually ITN, there is evidence new evidence and theory that because of things going on elsewhere in the world, that Britain just gave America up. They didn't fight as hard as they could of.

And I respect that if it is proven, does it alter history in any way?