Greatest Empire Ever
- Thread starter Jersay
- Start date
All you people claiming America is not, and has never been an empire, really should brush up on the expansion of the United States.
Cuba, Guam, the Philippines, "American" Samoa, Alaska, the "US" Virgin Island, Puerto Rico, land surrounding the Panama Canal and Hawaii (as well as numerous other islands in the Pacific) are all territories which America has acquired from local population and ruled for shorter or longer periods.
All of these places had different ethnicities and culture from the United States.
Granted some of these places were returned to the local population, but only after receiving serious influence from the US. (see for example Cuba until Castro came to power)
In Philippines case America fought a deadly campaign to retain the country where at least 1 million civilians died. Many died from American atrocities almost genocidal in nature.
The Philippines finally achieved independence in 1946 after almost 50 years of american rule.
The people of Alaska, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, US Virgin Island and Hawaii are not so lucky. They have all been incorporated into American in some way.
Personally I especially feel sorry for Hawaii which had a quite rich culture (and even today still has an independence movement), but over 100 years of american influence means it's been assimilated into the US, just like Greece or Gaul in Roman times.
So yeah America doesn't have an empire. Thank Godness they brought democracy to these barbaric lands...
PS: Don't get me started if it was legitimate to buy a huge piece of land from the french, which indians had inhabited for centuries before they came.
Cuba, Guam, the Philippines, "American" Samoa, Alaska, the "US" Virgin Island, Puerto Rico, land surrounding the Panama Canal and Hawaii (as well as numerous other islands in the Pacific) are all territories which America has acquired from local population and ruled for shorter or longer periods.
All of these places had different ethnicities and culture from the United States.
Granted some of these places were returned to the local population, but only after receiving serious influence from the US. (see for example Cuba until Castro came to power)
In Philippines case America fought a deadly campaign to retain the country where at least 1 million civilians died. Many died from American atrocities almost genocidal in nature.
The Philippines finally achieved independence in 1946 after almost 50 years of american rule.
The people of Alaska, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, US Virgin Island and Hawaii are not so lucky. They have all been incorporated into American in some way.
Personally I especially feel sorry for Hawaii which had a quite rich culture (and even today still has an independence movement), but over 100 years of american influence means it's been assimilated into the US, just like Greece or Gaul in Roman times.
So yeah America doesn't have an empire. Thank Godness they brought democracy to these barbaric lands...
PS: Don't get me started if it was legitimate to buy a huge piece of land from the french, which indians had inhabited for centuries before they came.
It's probably the breath-taking arrogance, as is so obviously evident in your post, that makes many people hate Americans.
Your post just oozes arrogance of the highest order.
As for World War II, the British, at one stage in the war, fought ALONE against NAZI tyranny whilst the Americans sat back and did nothing.
Before the US even entered the war in 1942, Britain endured the Blitz (the destruction of London and other cities - London had 57 consecutive nights of bombing), defeated the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain which lasted 3 months, invaded Syria, had many of its merchant shipping sunk by the U-boats in the Atlantic, sank the Bismarck, came under attack by the Italians in Eritrea, captured Tobruk from the Italians, captured a German U-boat, invade Iran, evacuate forces from Dunkirk and launch history's first ever aircraft carrier strike.
Meanwhile, the US did nothing as it didn't enter the war until 1942 - and that was only because Pearl Harbor was bombed.
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I'd suggest that the greatest empire is one that's been built, not on fear and force, but on positive attributes. :smile:
Chinese empire
If you look at China's empire as a whole, with highlights upon the Tang dynasty and the Han dynasty, I would say the Chinese empire is relatively the "greatest".
I tip my hat to the power of the Roman empire, but there are very few things things that the Romans had that the Chinese didn't have and more.
Also, the very fact that the entity of the Roman empire does not exist and the Chinese entity empire does to this day. Imperial China has 5,000 years of history, and the Chinese civilization has existed for even longer. Namely the Shang dynasty that has records from 12,000 B.C.
Unlike the Roman Empire, the Chinese Empire can say that there was a point in their history when the entire wealth of the rest of the world was incomparable to the wealth of China.
China's trade, in the Tang dynasty especially, was monumental. Silk was equivalent to gold, and was created in pre-history China.
When the near invincible Mongol army began conquering Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and China, it took the longest to conquer China (40-50 years); however, it took a minimal amount of time to conquer Rome (but I recognize the fact that Rome was already on its decline).
The Chinese cultural has deeper roots than any other culture, not saying this out of bias, but just out of historical evidence and historical time. The Chinese cultural has so far been impossible to bring down, despite the rule of foreigners for two times. And for each time (Mongols and Manchurians), the foreigners failed to defeat the entity of China, and many would say that they became "chinese themselves".
China's main historical issue was that it had too many civil wars. Every time there would be even a 30 year peace, the economy of China would sky-rocket. Despite a history of internal strife, China still retains a constent identity even while rulers are being replaced, foreigners are taking over, etc.
The Roman empire was never truly unified under one standard. Ever since the Qin empire, all the standards, namely language, has been united.
It can be said that the Roman empire's unity was largely due to its military. In the Chinese empire, it did take many wars to unite China after another separation, China remained unified by culture.
Yes, the Romans had domination over the Mediterranean, but their ships were incomparable to the Chinese ships (especially in the Ming dynasty).
Where the Romans can be seen as "greater" is in their desire to conquer other lands. China for the longest period in history had the greatest potential to take over much of the world(with its population, cultural identity, nationalism, and advancement); howevever, China never really had an interest in imperialism--unlike the British and others.
Unlike Rome, China has always "existed", and Rome can be said to have been "created" and then "disappeared."
I think a sad reality is that much of the world that is eurocentric view China as the image it had during European imperialism. At the time, China was being ruled by Manchurians who had hindered China's economy drastically by limiting trade. The Manchu empress was uneducated and beheaded any advisor that believed that China had to change ("people who were once barbarians and lesser are now able to defeat us"--one advisor). This quote is quite racist, i know, but it refers to the view of China on the Japanese--who's culture was learned from China.
Imperialism, Japanese invasions, rise of Communism, weakeness of the Manchu government were all factors that contributed to the later humiliation of the Han people of china.
Modern-day western views generally take from the lowest point in Chinese history.
I know it's hard to win my argument with a bunch of fluffy comments. But here's a self-test if you doubt my opinion:
Take any time in European history (I'm serious. Any time.)- preferably before the Imperialistic Era in Europe. You'll find that during any time in European history, the Chinese empire was alive and strong. And if you think that it is only because China had a minimal amount of competition, look at the Mongols, as I earlier stated: Mongolians who basically had no standing army but an army on horseback, easily took over eastern Europe and the Middle East, while taking the longest to take over China. This is also the reason why China experienced the greatest brutality from Mongolia, when the Mongolians went into China, they found it to be...well too populated, and literally began to lower the population by execution. I mean really, what other nation that has experienced mass genocide could still continue to hold rebellions and revolutions, and eventually become a world power again?
But anyways, I can say that I definitely know more about European history than Chinese history; but it doesn't take a lot to realize the great extent of the Chinese empire.
If you look at China's empire as a whole, with highlights upon the Tang dynasty and the Han dynasty, I would say the Chinese empire is relatively the "greatest".
I tip my hat to the power of the Roman empire, but there are very few things things that the Romans had that the Chinese didn't have and more.
Also, the very fact that the entity of the Roman empire does not exist and the Chinese entity empire does to this day. Imperial China has 5,000 years of history, and the Chinese civilization has existed for even longer. Namely the Shang dynasty that has records from 12,000 B.C.
Unlike the Roman Empire, the Chinese Empire can say that there was a point in their history when the entire wealth of the rest of the world was incomparable to the wealth of China.
China's trade, in the Tang dynasty especially, was monumental. Silk was equivalent to gold, and was created in pre-history China.
When the near invincible Mongol army began conquering Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and China, it took the longest to conquer China (40-50 years); however, it took a minimal amount of time to conquer Rome (but I recognize the fact that Rome was already on its decline).
The Chinese cultural has deeper roots than any other culture, not saying this out of bias, but just out of historical evidence and historical time. The Chinese cultural has so far been impossible to bring down, despite the rule of foreigners for two times. And for each time (Mongols and Manchurians), the foreigners failed to defeat the entity of China, and many would say that they became "chinese themselves".
China's main historical issue was that it had too many civil wars. Every time there would be even a 30 year peace, the economy of China would sky-rocket. Despite a history of internal strife, China still retains a constent identity even while rulers are being replaced, foreigners are taking over, etc.
The Roman empire was never truly unified under one standard. Ever since the Qin empire, all the standards, namely language, has been united.
It can be said that the Roman empire's unity was largely due to its military. In the Chinese empire, it did take many wars to unite China after another separation, China remained unified by culture.
Yes, the Romans had domination over the Mediterranean, but their ships were incomparable to the Chinese ships (especially in the Ming dynasty).
Where the Romans can be seen as "greater" is in their desire to conquer other lands. China for the longest period in history had the greatest potential to take over much of the world(with its population, cultural identity, nationalism, and advancement); howevever, China never really had an interest in imperialism--unlike the British and others.
Unlike Rome, China has always "existed", and Rome can be said to have been "created" and then "disappeared."
I think a sad reality is that much of the world that is eurocentric view China as the image it had during European imperialism. At the time, China was being ruled by Manchurians who had hindered China's economy drastically by limiting trade. The Manchu empress was uneducated and beheaded any advisor that believed that China had to change ("people who were once barbarians and lesser are now able to defeat us"--one advisor). This quote is quite racist, i know, but it refers to the view of China on the Japanese--who's culture was learned from China.
Imperialism, Japanese invasions, rise of Communism, weakeness of the Manchu government were all factors that contributed to the later humiliation of the Han people of china.
Modern-day western views generally take from the lowest point in Chinese history.
I know it's hard to win my argument with a bunch of fluffy comments. But here's a self-test if you doubt my opinion:
Take any time in European history (I'm serious. Any time.)- preferably before the Imperialistic Era in Europe. You'll find that during any time in European history, the Chinese empire was alive and strong. And if you think that it is only because China had a minimal amount of competition, look at the Mongols, as I earlier stated: Mongolians who basically had no standing army but an army on horseback, easily took over eastern Europe and the Middle East, while taking the longest to take over China. This is also the reason why China experienced the greatest brutality from Mongolia, when the Mongolians went into China, they found it to be...well too populated, and literally began to lower the population by execution. I mean really, what other nation that has experienced mass genocide could still continue to hold rebellions and revolutions, and eventually become a world power again?
But anyways, I can say that I definitely know more about European history than Chinese history; but it doesn't take a lot to realize the great extent of the Chinese empire.
Britain's economy is $2.8 trillion, which makes it over a trillion dollars wealthier than California's.
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At its largest (in 1922 under King George V), the British Empire was 36.6 million km².
At its largest (in 1268 under Kublai Khan ), the Mongol Empire was 33.2 million km².
This means that the British Empire had the most land mass under its control at any one time.
But the British Empire was not only the greatest ever empire in terms of physical size. It was also the greatest empire ever in terms of population and wealth.
In 1938, the British Empire's population was 531 million, around one quarter of the world's population.
The second largest empire in history in terms of population was China's Qing Empire, which had a population of 432 million at its most populated.
When it comes to wealth, the British Empire was WAY WAY richer than any other in history, almost TWICE as wealthy as the SECOND-wealthiest ever.
At its richest, in 1938, the British Empire's GDP was $683.3 billion (which will probably work out at something like $20 trillion in today's money).
The second-wealthiest empire in history was the NAZI Germany Empire, whose GDP was only $375.6 billion at its wealthiest.
All this means that the British Empire was more superior than any other seen before or since.
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ah yes, the vikings were such great ppl. i think the chinese empire were pretty good too. the american empire might have been great, once, but that was a while ago.
I still think the greatest empire(s) would be those that did not use fear, strength, etc. The Incan empire, for instance. Occupied a heckuva lot of territory and did it peacefully.
I'm obviously a little biased but I'd have to say the Persian Empire. It was probably the only humanitarian empire the world has seen.
Kilik123:
The Chinese empire was indeed created, as much so as rome. Its political entity is also about the same Rome (which still exists today in the form of the Catholic and Orthodox churches)
The problem with a term like "greatest" is there is no definition of great, it varies person to person.
The Chinese empire was indeed created, as much so as rome. Its political entity is also about the same Rome (which still exists today in the form of the Catholic and Orthodox churches)
The problem with a term like "greatest" is there is no definition of great, it varies person to person.
Johnny Cash's Empire of Dirt from "Hurt" was bigger than all of 'em.
But I gotta say the Brit Empire has got to be the most impressive and long lasting.
But I gotta say the Brit Empire has got to be the most impressive and long lasting.
What is the greatest empire to ever live? by Austen Haynes
What is the greatest empire to ever live? A Brief History on the greatest empires to ever live
by Austen Haynes, thanks to Wikipedia esp. on Byzantine Empire
There were many great empires throughout the past, but which empire was the greatest at its height and for its time period? I am going to go through all of the greatest empires and decide which one was the greatest.
Mongol Empire (1206–136
The Mongol Empire was the largest connected empire in world history. At its peak it had over 100 million people. The Mongol Empire was founded by Genghis Khan in 1206 after unifying the Mongol - Turkic tribes, and numerous conquests throughout continental Eurasia. The Mongolians took pride in their ruthlessness. 30 Million people were killed under the rule of the Mongol Empire, and the population of China fell by half in 50 years of Mongol rule. The Mongols were very disciplined. After the death of Genghis Khan his third son, Ogedei Khan ruled the empire. After Ogedei's death in 1241, signs of the empire's later fall were shown. Kublai Khan ruled from 1260-1294, he was unable to keep his brother Hulagu and their cousin Berke from open warfare in 1263. The empire was separated into four khans, each ruled by a separate khan and overseen by the Great Khan. The Kipchak Khanate or the Golden Horde ruled Russia, the Ilkhanate ruled the Middle East, the Chagatai Khanate ruled over western Asia, and the Great Khan controlled Mongolia and eventually China. The empire reached its greatest extent under Kublai Khan with his conquest of China, and completed by his final victory over the Song Dynasty in 1279.
Kublai Khan
Kublai Khan twice attempted to invade Japan in search of gold. Both times the Samurai resisted greatly and the weather tore the fleets apart. The first attempted invasion was in 1274 with a fleet of 900 ships. The second invasion was in 1281 with a fleet of over 1,170 large war junks, each close to 240 feet long. After Kublai died in 1294, his heirs failed to maintain the Pax Mongolica. The Mongol Empire's golden age was long gone.
Roman Empire (September 2, 31 BC-476 AD)
http://historyworld.wordpress.com/2...reatest-empire-to-ever-live-by-austen-haynes/
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What is the greatest empire to ever live? A Brief History on the greatest empires to ever live
by Austen Haynes, thanks to Wikipedia esp. on Byzantine Empire
There were many great empires throughout the past, but which empire was the greatest at its height and for its time period? I am going to go through all of the greatest empires and decide which one was the greatest.
Mongol Empire (1206–136
The Mongol Empire was the largest connected empire in world history. At its peak it had over 100 million people. The Mongol Empire was founded by Genghis Khan in 1206 after unifying the Mongol - Turkic tribes, and numerous conquests throughout continental Eurasia. The Mongolians took pride in their ruthlessness. 30 Million people were killed under the rule of the Mongol Empire, and the population of China fell by half in 50 years of Mongol rule. The Mongols were very disciplined. After the death of Genghis Khan his third son, Ogedei Khan ruled the empire. After Ogedei's death in 1241, signs of the empire's later fall were shown. Kublai Khan ruled from 1260-1294, he was unable to keep his brother Hulagu and their cousin Berke from open warfare in 1263. The empire was separated into four khans, each ruled by a separate khan and overseen by the Great Khan. The Kipchak Khanate or the Golden Horde ruled Russia, the Ilkhanate ruled the Middle East, the Chagatai Khanate ruled over western Asia, and the Great Khan controlled Mongolia and eventually China. The empire reached its greatest extent under Kublai Khan with his conquest of China, and completed by his final victory over the Song Dynasty in 1279.
Kublai Khan
Kublai Khan twice attempted to invade Japan in search of gold. Both times the Samurai resisted greatly and the weather tore the fleets apart. The first attempted invasion was in 1274 with a fleet of 900 ships. The second invasion was in 1281 with a fleet of over 1,170 large war junks, each close to 240 feet long. After Kublai died in 1294, his heirs failed to maintain the Pax Mongolica. The Mongol Empire's golden age was long gone.
Roman Empire (September 2, 31 BC-476 AD)
http://historyworld.wordpress.com/2...reatest-empire-to-ever-live-by-austen-haynes/
Jimmoyer, the Brit Empire was just British Britain 425 years 1583 to present, How are the Brits the longest Empire when we see the numbers bellow?
Venetian Northeast Italy 1100 years 697 1797
Byzantine Asia Minor 1123 years 330 1453 Ceased after the conquest of Constantinople by the OttomanTerm conventionally used since the 19th century to describe the Greek-speaking Roman Empire during the Middle Ages. Total Roman Empire (East and West) 1906 years:
Islamic Mecca 1313 years 610 1923 It started from the Prophet and down to the Caliphs then to the Ummayads then to the Abbasids then to the Seljuk Turks then to the Ottomans Turks.