Governments spend too much on Seniors

[JLM]

"What percentage of seniors do you think have a mortgage? If their children and grandchildren need help then there are government programs for those programs you shouldn't be using your OAS."

I don't know, but if you hand me over $108,000 that will take care of mine if you are concerned about it.-

"Actually if you think about it, on average the last 10 years of a person's life have a great cost to the healthcare system so whether the last 10 years are when your in your 50's or your 90's it will be very costly."

When you provide a credible link I will stop thinking that statement is bullsh*t. For one thing most terminal illnesses don't last 10 years. For another thing lots of people who die in their 50s die of a suddenh heart attack or a fast progressing cancer and some are killed on the job or in auto accidents. Many people are healthy until the day they die or at least up until a few weeks before death. You grasping at straws now.

Your sense of entitlement is well documented. The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one.

You absolutely right, I am entitled to my C.P.P. as I paid for it. I am absolutely entitled to my O.A.P. because I paid for it.

 

[coldstream]

Oswald Spengler in his book Decline of the West noted the most salient sign of a collapsing civilization when he noted that in the years leading up to the final pillaging and dismemberment of Rome in the 4th and 5th ceturies, edicts were put out allowing squatters to gain property rights to abandoned land providing that it was tilled.

Essentially he said this showed what Rome was experiencing was a collapse of population, and an inability to provide for itself due to aging of the population demographic which always accompanies decline in fertility rates below replacement levels.

That's where the West is right now.. with the twin dragons of collapsing production due to Free Markets and a declining percentage of people in their their most productive years supporting a burgeoning aging population.

There is no reason that Canada cannot support its seniors.. except for these self inflicted mortal wounds brought on my New Age economics and social dictates.. which promotes a deeply embedded pessimism, lethargy and prurient gratification.. through free trade and a largely intangible productive principles on the economic side.. and through abortion, homosexuality, small families often with no children.. and inevitably euthenasia.. as a possible solution for 'useless eaters'.. on the social side.

And NO amount to cutting benefits to Seniors will solve the problem.

 

[Cannuck]

You absolutely right,

Of course I am. I am surprised you so readily admitted it though. It makes me wonder what all the fuss has been about.

 

[DaSleeper]

 

[L Gilbert]

Spengler forgot that humans have initiative and things that decay tend to foster new life. It's a part of evolution, you know.

 

[Sal]

Now who's attacking a whole generation? Count yourself lucky that you aren't in your teens or twenties today because life is nowhere as easy as it was in your day. Take a look at the literature (back in the newspaper article is an excellent place to start). It shows that today's youth have way more education than people 40 or 50 years ago in their 20's and are making lower wages if you factor in inflation. After inflation, most things like food, housing and transportation are way higher today than 40 or 50 years ago. AND taxes are also much higher. 40 or 50 years ago many men didn't even have grade 8 or 9 never mind high school and they could all find good paying jobs and cheap housing.

Do you really want to dump on todays hardworking youth? Remember these are the people that will take care of you in your hospital bed and wipe your backside so you might want to be kind to them......

You know you are not giving our youth much credit. Are they that weak that they can not survive? Because if so, it is a product of the way they were raised. You want to hand youth what? No one handed me anything. I went through school on a loan only to graduate and find there were no jobs. Still managed to pay my loan back. So while you may have come out on easy street I certainly didn't.

I did not have parents to support me, my mum was busy trying to survive herself...on her PENSION. But she helped when she could.

My company went tits up after how many years...so there went my job, my pension and no payout either.

I went back to school and retrained. My current position does not recognize my BA so essentially it isn't worth the paper it was printed on in the job market. So cry me a river. We all have our battles. I am still making damn good money.

None of my friends kids are doing all that badly even in a bad economy here in Ontario because if they really want to earn some money, they will. And some of those kids have trained for teaching which is difficult right now but NOT impossible...these whiners should quit whining and head out west if they can't find work here. They are young with their whole life ahead of them...get off their *** and go get it.

WTF...I get tired of everyone whining incessantly about what they don't have...frigging go get it, if you want it. Other than ill health, mental, or emotional there is zero reason to whine...just make it happen. If the people who are whining all the time put half that effort into changing their life for the better, they would do okay.

 

[JLM]

Of course I am. I am surprised you so readily admitted it though. It makes me wonder what all the fuss has been about.

Who do you think you are fooling? You're probably the only one on the forum who didn't read the rest of it. - I love it when morons divulge themselves to the whole wide world-

 

[tibear]

"
You absolutely right, I am entitled to my C.P.P. as I paid for it. I am absolutely entitled to my O.A.P. because I paid for it.

You accuse me of repeating myself....how many times have you said, incorrectly I might add, that you've paid for OAS just like CPP.

Notice you didn't have any rebuttal when I pointed out your superannuation was reduced because of your choicing that options. What's the matter does the truth hurt to admit that you made an inappropriate choice?

How about your inability to differentiate the difference between % use of social service money and % of users at a food bank? No comment on that?

You know you are not giving our youth much credit. Are they that weak that they can not survive? Because if so, it is a product of the way they were raised. You want to hand youth what? No one handed me anything. I went through school on a loan only to graduate and find there were no jobs. Still managed to pay my loan back. So while you may have come out on easy street I certainly didn't.

I did not have parents to support me, my mum was busy trying to survive herself...on her PENSION. But she helped when she could.

My company went tits up after how many years...so there went my job, my pension and no payout either.

I went back to school and retrained. My current position does not recognize my BA so essentially it isn't worth the paper it was printed on in the job market. So cry me a river. We all have our battles. I am still making damn good money.

None of my friends kids are doing all that badly even in a bad economy here in Ontario because if they really want to earn some money, they will. And some of those kids have trained for teaching which is difficult right now but NOT impossible...these whiners should quit whining and head out west if they can't find work here. They are young with their whole life ahead of them...get off their *** and go get it.

WTF...I get tired of everyone whining incessantly about what they don't have...frigging go get it, if you want it. Other than ill health, mental, or emotional there is zero reason to whine...just make it happen. If the people who are whining all the time put half that effort into changing their life for the better, they would do okay.

SAL I agree with you, your experience is EXACTLY what most of our youth are going through. Today's youth is doing exactly that. Today's youth are the most educated generation of all time, they want to be successful and in most cases that comes with education.

However back in the 50's and 60's there were plenty of jobs and people didn't have to get post secondary education, most of the time they didn't even have high school.

Dream on. Yeah, right, 40 or 50 years ago, about 90% of income was spent on the necessities of life, our electronics was a $30 record player. We did things like growing gardens, and patching our jeans and they weren't designer jeans. But anyway if you weren't around at the time you don't know what you are talking about. We had neither the time or the money to be nattering all day long on cell phones.

At least you had a home with land that you could plant a garden....today's youth can't afford a condo never mind a home with a yard. I think if you take a look at our youth you will find them much more responsible that we were at their age. Tell me you never drove drunk, today's youth are very responsible that way.

And you accuse me of attacking seniors, what was your comment, let me think, oh yeah, Do you have a hard-on for our youth or something? Is that the correct way to phrase it?

Who do you think you are fooling? You're probably the only one on the forum who didn't read the rest of it. - I love it when morons divulge themselves to the whole wide world-

don't we

 

[JLM]

You accuse me of repeating myself....how many times have you said, incorrectly I might add, that you've paid for OAS just like CPP.

Notice you didn't have any rebuttal when I pointed out your superannuation was reduced because of your choicing that options. What's the matter does the truth hurt to admit that you made an inappropriate choice?
Failure to rebut doesn't necessarily mean I don't have an answer. It more than likely means I'm not at my computer, like today I left it to attend an appt., I left it to take a walk, I left it to go to the garbage dump, not to mention a few other things. Seems like I have a few more things to do than you do. -

Whatever it is you are smoking isn't good for you. So who paid for my O.A.P.? "Choicing that options"...........what does that mean and what language is it? Bridging is neither a choice or an option. There's two ways to avoid briding, die before age 65 or work until 65, not sure which is worse!

 

[tibear]

Whatever it is you are smoking isn't good for you. So who paid for my O.A.P.? "Choicing that options"...........what does that mean and what language is it? Bridging is neither a choice or an option. There's two ways to avoid briding, die before age 65 or work until 65, not sure which is worse!

There are two choices when you collect your pension, you can incorporate your OAS as part of your pension or choose to ignore it. You made the choice to incorporate your OAS as part of your pension. This allowed you to have a higher pension amount than you would have received had you not incoporated OAS as part of your pension BUT when you began to collect OAS you pension was adjusted downward. Had you chosen not to incorporate OAS as part of your pension you would have received slightly lower pension but it would not have been affected when you began to collect OAS. You made the choice so be a man and stop whining about it after the fact.

If you didn't know this when you signed your superannuation contract then you either didn't have a very good counselor or you weren't listening.

As to who paid for your OAS, it is the taxpayers of today, yourself included I would think. However it is NOT like your CPP as you insinuate where you paid into a OAS plan over your lifetime and the government saved and invested the money to pay back to you as a pension once you reached 65 as you insinuate.

 

[JLM]

There are two choices when you collect your pension, you can incorporate your OAS as part of your pension or choose to ignore it. You made the choice to incorporate your OAS as part of your pension. .

EXCUSE ME! I never did any such thing. My pension is provincial, O.A.P. is federal. I don't even get them on the same day!

You know you are not giving our youth much credit. Are they that weak that they can not survive? Because if so, it is a product of the way they were raised. You want to hand youth what? No one handed me anything. I went through school on a loan only to graduate and find there were no jobs. Still managed to pay my loan back. So while you may have come out on easy street I certainly didn't.

I did not have parents to support me, my mum was busy trying to survive herself...on her PENSION. But she helped when she could.

My company went tits up after how many years...so there went my job, my pension and no payout either.

I went back to school and retrained. My current position does not recognize my BA so essentially it isn't worth the paper it was printed on in the job market. So cry me a river. We all have our battles. I am still making damn good money.

I like your attitude Sal. I've heard it said that anyone who wants a job has one. I've seen that proven out in my own family. I have one son who makes big (huge) money for about 20 weeks of the year. Some of the other weeks he's working for minimum wage. Whereever there is work of any description he has a job because his work ethic is in high demand.

"Tell me you never drove drunk, today's youth are very responsible that way." WTF has that got to do with pensions? But since you brought it up, I used to drive drunk all the time (couldn't walk). However I did have the sense about 35 years ago to quit before I hurt someone or myself or get nailed by the cops.

As to who paid for your OAS, it is the taxpayers of today, yourself included I would think. However it is NOT like your CPP as you insinuate where you paid into a OAS plan over your lifetime and the government saved and invested the money to pay back to you as a pension once you reached 65 as you insinuate.

You got rocks in your head, man. I paid for it over the past 50 years. Who says the Gov't didn't invest the money? Actually they do invest a lot of money - maybe some of it was mine (I'm not sure they actually mark the bills with my initials or SIN) Anyway is it my business what they do with the money as long as it's there for me come time to collect? -

 

[tibear]

EXCUSE ME! I never did any such thing. My pension is provincial, O.A.P. is federal. I don't even get them on the same day!

I like your attitude Sal. I've heard it said that anyone who wants a job has one. I've seen that proven out in my own family. I have one son who makes big (huge) money for about 20 weeks of the year. Some of the other weeks he's working for minimum wage. Whereever there is work of any description he has a job because his work ethic is in high demand.

"Tell me you never drove drunk, today's youth are very responsible that way." WTF has that got to do with pensions? But since you brought it up, I used to drive drunk all the time (couldn't walk). However I did have the sense about 35 years ago to quit before I hurt someone or myself or get nailed by the cops.

two can play that game...EXCUSE ME but my pension will also be a provincial pension and straight out of the pension preparedness brochure:
At retirement, you may elect to integrate your Superannuation pension with OAS (if you retire prior to age 65) and/or the CPP (if you retire prior to age 60). The purpose of integration is to provide more uniform income throughout retirement. Integration provides an amount, or advance, in addition to your CSSF pension, until age 65 for OAS and/or age 60 for CPP. At this time, your pension will be reduced for the remainder of your lifetime.

The OAS advances and the corresponding reduction will be adjusted based on the indexation of the Federal Government’s OAS.

The amount of any future pension reduction due to integration with either OAS or CPP may be replaced by the amount payable respecting these programs from the Federal Government.

Please give this option careful consideration as members who integrate with OAS may experience a reduction in their income if, in the future, the Federal benefit is reduced or eliminated.

Sounds like you learned something tonight that you should have read long before you retired.....

The drunk driving reference was to show you that today's youth are generally more responsible then when we were their age.......as I stated in the earlier post. I was standing up for today's youth that you seem to have a "hard-on" as you put it.

You got rocks in your head, man. I paid for it over the past 50 years. Who says the Gov't didn't invest the money? Actually they do invest a lot of money - maybe some of it was mine (I'm not sure they actually mark the bills with my initials or SIN) Anyway is it my business what they do with the money as long as it's there for me come time to collect? -

Man don't you read any of my posts, look back at the earlier posts where I put a link to the federal government revenue and expenditure spreadsheets that investment income is but a fraction of federal government general revenues and that is where the OAS comes from as I quoted directly from the federal government website. The vast majority (>90%) comes from taxes, so whatever you paid over the past 50 years hasn't put 1 nickel, OK maybe a nickel, into your OAS. It comes directly from hard working canadians.

Not sure what you're doing when you see my posts but it seems you sure aren't reading them because you either haven't seen what I've posted or don't understand what it means.

 

[Cannuck]

Do you have a hard-on for our youth or something? Is that the correct way to phrase it?

You hit the nail squarely on the head. I believe people like JLM have low self esteem and it is much easier to tear others down than to address ones own shortcomings. I know of seniors that planned their retirements quite well and really have no need for the stuff that JLM sees as entitlements.

 

[JLM]

Whatever it is you are smoking isn't good for you. So who paid for my O.A.P.? "Choicing that options"...........what does that mean and what language is it? Bridging is neither a choice or an option. There's two ways to avoid briding, die before age 65 or work until 65, not sure which is worse!

Handing out "reds" for truths you don't like, is not a sign of intellect, Cannuck! -

You hit the nail squarely on the head. I believe people like JLM have low self esteem and it is much easier to tear others down than to address ones own shortcomings. I know of seniors that planned their retirements quite well and really have no need for the stuff that JLM sees as entitlements.

You REALLY are stupid, aren't you. I have exactly what I worked for, for my retirement, I'm not complaining about it and I live the lifestyle I planned on without taking food out of anyone else's mouth, so WTF is your problem?
P.S. I even have a couple of R.R.I.F.s

two can play that game...EXCUSE ME but my pension will also be a provincial pension and straight out of the pension preparedness brochure:


At retirement, you may elect to integrate your Superannuation pension with OAS (if you retire prior to age 65) and/or the CPP (if you retire prior to age 60). The purpose of integration is to provide more uniform income throughout retirement. Integration provides an amount, or advance, in addition to your CSSF pension, until age 65 for OAS and/or age 60 for CPP. At this time, your pension will be reduced for the remainder of your lifetime.

The OAS advances and the corresponding reduction will be adjusted based on the indexation of the Federal Government’s OAS.

The amount of any future pension reduction due to integration with either OAS or CPP may be replaced by the amount payable respecting these programs from the Federal Government.

Please give this option careful consideration as members who integrate with OAS may experience a reduction in their income if, in the future, the Federal benefit is reduced or eliminated.

Sounds like you learned something tonight that you should have read long before you retired.....

The drunk driving reference was to show you that today's youth are generally more responsible then when we were their age.......as I stated in the earlier post. I was standing up for today's youth that you seem to have a "hard-on" as you put it.






Man don't you read any of my posts, look back at the earlier posts where I put a link to the federal government revenue and expenditure spreadsheets that investment income is but a fraction of federal government general revenues and that is where the OAS comes from as I quoted directly from the federal government website. The vast majority (>90%) comes from taxes, so whatever you paid over the past 50 years hasn't put 1 nickel, OK maybe a nickel, into your OAS. It comes directly from hard working canadians.

Not sure what you're doing when you see my posts but it seems you sure aren't reading them because you either haven't seen what I've posted or don't understand what it means.

Are you sure you are not Cannuck writing under a nom de plume? A normal guy wouldn't deliberately be as stupid. I retired 15 years ago, the rules may have been different then, there WAS NO OPTION THEN, to amalgamate Super Annie with O.A.P. How do you know I wasn't one of those hard working Canadians you are yapping about. Now tell me which way do you want it (Ya can't suck and blow at the same time) When I was working was I paying for someone's else's O.A.P.? If I wasn't then it's a fact no one today is paying for my O.A.P.!

You hit the nail squarely on the head. I believe people like JLM have low self esteem and it is much easier to tear others down than to address ones own shortcomings. I know of seniors that planned their retirements quite well and really have no need for the stuff that JLM sees as entitlements.

You're just a barrel of laughs, so far you've fallen into every trap I've set for you! - Actually when it comes right down to it, what business is it of yours to pass judgment on other people's pensions? You should just MYOFB!

 

[Cannuck]

I'm the first person to agree that one should disagree in a civil friendly manner and generally I do.

Really? You sure have a funny way of showing it. I'm not sure if it's a generational thing but I do know that most people my age would not conduct themselves in the manner you choose to.

.... If you want it more clearly, just come back with another idiotic remark!

For the most part what these F*^%(*# idiots don't understand is...Some A$$holes.... including one A$$hole whose only talent is giving reds to people whose I.Q. exceeds his by about 800%.

... I know the other idiot doesn't.

...you are the dumbass and you should save your crude comments for the likes of the resident idiot, whose mouth is running rampant!

I don't have to be all that bright to be about 120 I.Q. points ahead of our resident idiot.-

If this guy doesn't shut up pretty soon I'm going to lump him in with the other forum idiot on here! -

end of f*****g, "debate"

Yep, if the poster continues an idiotic idea after it's pointed out to him, he then becomes an idiot! -

I see the resident idiot is prolific this morning! -

Barefaced f****g liar!

.... I'd just tell him and the resident idiot to kindly F**k Off, ...

I love it when morons divulge themselves to the whole wide world-

You REALLY are stupid, aren't you...... You should just MYOFB!

 

[JLM]

Really? You sure have a funny way of showing it. I'm not sure if it's a generational thing but I do know that most people my age would not conduct themselves in the manner you choose to.

Oh yeah, I know I can be rude, lewd and crude but only to appropriate recipients, but I believe the truth trumps those little foibles!- Some people just can't handle the truth and have to throw "red herrings" in but intelligent people can ferret those out quite quickly. Actually in real life I'm known to be a polite person! I just don't take any crap. -

 

[tibear]

Are you sure you are not Cannuck writing under a nom de plume? A normal guy wouldn't deliberately be as stupid. I retired 15 years ago, the rules may have been different then, there WAS NO OPTION THEN, to amalgamate Super Annie with O.A.P. How do you know I wasn't one of those hard working Canadians you are yapping about. Now tell me which way do you want it (Ya can't suck and blow at the same time) When I was working was I paying for someone's else's O.A.P.? If I wasn't then it's a fact no one today is paying for my O.A.P.!

/QUOTE]

From what we were told, superannuation has always been like this so evidently you chose wrong or you need to be tested for brain deteriation because you don't remember having the choice.

BTW, your second last line is EXACTLY correct. When you were working you WERE paying for other people's OAS. OAS works this way.....I'll type real slow so you can understand:
- tax the crap out of working canadians
- on average take over $1,000 from every canadian and put into OAS system
- write out cheques to every senior that has registered to collect OAS but exclude those that pay the most taxes because this is a income based program

 

[Cannuck]

Oh yeah, I know I can be rude, lewd and crude but only to appropriate recipients, but I believe the truth trumps those little foibles!- Some people just can't handle the truth and have to throw "red herrings" in but intelligent people can ferret those out quite quickly. Actually in real life I'm known to be a polite person! I just don't take any crap. -

I don't allow my children to behave the way you do.

 

[JLM]

I don't allow my children to behave the way you do.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Are you sure you are not Cannuck writing under a nom de plume? A normal guy wouldn't deliberately be as stupid. I retired 15 years ago, the rules may have been different then, there WAS NO OPTION THEN, to amalgamate Super Annie with O.A.P. How do you know I wasn't one of those hard working Canadians you are yapping about. Now tell me which way do you want it (Ya can't suck and blow at the same time) When I was working was I paying for someone's else's O.A.P.? If I wasn't then it's a fact no one today is paying for my O.A.P.!

/QUOTE]

From what we were told, superannuation has always been like this so evidently you chose wrong or you need to be tested for brain deteriation because you don't remember having the choice.

BTW, your second last line is EXACTLY correct. When you were working you WERE paying for other people's OAS. OAS works this way.....I'll type real slow so you can understand:
- tax the crap out of working canadians
- on average take over $1,000 from every canadian and put into OAS system
- write out cheques to every senior that has registered to collect OAS but exclude those that pay the most taxes because this is a income based program

:lol::lol:
:lol::lol:

 

[JLM]

Really? You sure have a funny way of showing it. I'm not sure if it's a generational thing but I do know that most people my age would not conduct themselves in the manner you choose to.

And all generated by the likes of you and your ilk! -