GOD

[Toro]

Re: RE: GOD

...and you've been privy to some of these religious events then?

Haha, no. What I should have said was

I recognize that the existence of God is seemingly irrational to those skeptical who otherwise did not witness great religious events, i.e. the Ressurection.

i.e. those of you who need more than faith.

 

[jimmoyer]

Does stupidity know what it sees ?

Does a pet or animal know really who we are ?

Will the robot race we create remember who we were ?

Has there ever been a creator who has fully known the consequences of its creation, its future possibilities ?

 

[Toro]

Vanni, as I read your links with the cogent arguments I am reminded of the fairly prominent British philosopher who who was an ardent atheist and spent his academic career refuting the existence of God but recanted a year or two ago saying that the existence of God was possible. He may have died but I can't remember. Anybody remember his name?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: GOD

Does stupidity know what it sees ?

Does a pet or animal know really who we are ?

Will the robot race we create remember who we were ?

Has there ever been a creator who has fully known the consequences of its creation, its future possibilities ?

So you are saying that you are either the pet of a deity, or its slave...

Thank you, but I will not submit to either notion...

 

[Jo Canadian]

A remarkable man was Imhotep, and deserving of deification, in my opinion...

Besides being a priest, the only thing of significance I know of a man named Imhotep is that he was the first in history to create a free standing pillar. Before that all pillars in architecture were attatched to walls. Well I guess I wasn't sleeping through my art history classes.

 

[jimmoyer]

Vanni !!

Sheeesh.

You blithely breeze past the different nature of each of those questions.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: RE: GOD

... I believe this is known as Pascal's Dilemna.

Pascal's Wager, actually, and it can be criticized on many grounds. First, there's the "many Gods" argument: which God are you going to choose to believe in? Thor? Jupiter? Yaweh? There are thousands, and if you pick the wrong one you're in just as much trouble as a non-believer, assuming some God exists. Second, how dumb do we suppose this God we've chosen to believe in is? You think he's not going to know how you really feel? I doubt that belief is really an act of will; you can't simply decide one day to start believing, any God worthy of the name will know perfectly well that you're just cynically trying to get a free ticket to Heaven. Third, it's not true that if you believe in God and there isn't one you've lost nothing. You'll have wasted a good part of your life performing the rituals and devotions associated with belief, discussing your deity with other believers, praying to it, imagining you've got answers from it, you'll probably have donated money to the organization that promotes it, and you'll have bored the crap out of the people you witness to about this non-existent deity.

Try this one instead: It's better to assume there is no God, and do your best to leave the world a better place than you found it. If there's no God, you've lost nothing and done a lot of good. If there is a God, you've got a good case for being judged on your merits and getting into Heaven anyway, subject to certain assumptions about God's benevolence. And if God's not benevolent, it probably doesn't much matter what you do or believe, you'll certainly have done something wrong in your life and He'll get you for it.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

A remarkable man was Imhotep, and deserving of deification, in my opinion...

Besides being a priest, the only thing of significance I know of a man named Imhotep is that he was the first in history to create a free standing pillar. Before that all pillars in architecture were attatched to walls. Well I guess I wasn't sleeping through my art history classes.

He designed the pyramid of Saqqara, which is believed to be the first pyramid ever...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: GOD

Vanni !!

Sheeesh.

You blithely breeze past the different nature of each of those questions.

Well they were silly questions...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: GOD

Try this one instead: It's better to assume there is no God, and do your best to leave the world a better place than you found it. If there's no God, you've lost nothing and done a lot of good. If there is a God, you've got a good case for being judged on your merits and getting into Heaven anyway, subject to certain assumptions about God's benevolence. And if God's not benevolent, it probably doesn't much matter what you do or believe, you'll certainly have done something wrong in your life and He'll get you for it.

Excellent response Dex...as always... :thumbleft:

 

[jimmoyer]

Gotta agree with you Dexter Sinister, Pascal's bet is a simplistic one, almost on the lines of a syllogism.

I'm interested in the concept of a creator, and so far any experience you or I have ever had of a creator of any type (artist, writer, scientist, ideologist, etc) had no idea where his creation would lead, what consequences such a creation would initiate.

The idea here, is that it is very possible to logically deduce that no creator of any kind can ever predict the future of its creation, or it consequences.

Dr Frankenstein, take note !!!

This idea of a creator as described above rids of us of the contradiction of free will and fate that our old notions of a creator imply.

 

[jimmoyer]

And Vanni, the one question about the future robot race we are sure to create, will dimly remember who we were, but this new race will know we were the
creator(s).

Historical amnesia, and the incompleteness of understanding the feelings of the past will still haunt us even in this evolving information age.

Just another aside to battle the old notions of a creator that cause so much difficulty between those of faith and those without.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: GOD

Just another aside to battle the old notions of a creator that cause so much difficulty between those of faith and those without.

...and which creator would this be?

The one that poofed everything into existence 6000 years ago?

...or the one that poofed the universe into existence and then turned on the evolutionary cruise control?

 

[JDream]

3rd choice for me.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

...or the one that poofed the universe into existence and then turned on the evolutionary cruise control?

:lol:

IF one REALLY has to choose.... :wink:

(love your phrasing here , Vanni :wink:

 

[Jo Canadian]

A remarkable man was Imhotep, and deserving of deification, in my opinion...

Besides being a priest, the only thing of significance I know of a man named Imhotep is that he was the first in history to create a free standing pillar. Before that all pillars in architecture were attatched to walls. Well I guess I wasn't sleeping through my art history classes.

He designed the pyramid of Saqqara, which is believed to be the first pyramid ever...

Yup, I forgot about that one too. Greece wouldn't have been the same without his influence. Now their Pantheon of Gods were much more interesting than what we have going today. They partied, cajoled, and screwed anything that could move.

 

[jimmoyer]

The pendulum swings of human thought is one reaction and over-reaction after another, and so it was a very novel idea to come up with a God that was above all of the petty human rivalries and its attendant comedy that so described the Greek crowd of Gods.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: GOD

The pendulum swings of human thought is one reaction and over-reaction after another, and so it was a very novel idea to come up with a God that was above all of the petty human rivalries and its attendant comedy that so described the Greek crowd of Gods.

But how is G_d/God/Allah/Etc. any different than the many that came before...why is your god more valid than the gods of the Greek, the Norsemen, the Egyptians or the Babylonians?

Many gods have come and gone throughout antiquity, some lasting far longer than those of Christianity...and yet most Christians believe that theirs is the true path...never considering the possibility that theirs is just an extrapolation of some ancient folklore that became mythologized over time...

Jim, you've stated that you too believe that religion is a man-made construct, so my question to you is this:

If the Old and New Testaments of the Bible were made up by religious concerns to promote God and Jesus, why should we not also believe that religion made up God and Jesus? The seed of deception is already there, so why stop short of creating gods to promote their religion? Given the fact that the scientific and archaeological evidence is strongly against much of what the bible claims as fact, this is a more likely scenario than what religion would propose...

It's faith that keeps people believing in something that is indefensible, as to the faithful, the prospect of breaking faith comes at the risk of perdition...

Absolute faith in anyone or anything begins as a transition from the voluntary to the involuntary, and culminates to the submission of choice...

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: GOD

... I believe this is known as Pascal's Dilemna.

Pascal's Wager, actually,

Yes. Thank you.

 

[Slurpie]

This is my opinion and you don't have to agree.

Maybe you don't beleive in god because something you want happn(maybe prayed for) didn't happen or maybe something didn't go your way and you thought that you couln't trust god because you thought he deceived you. You're practically saying god do this! Do you think that it's his will for bad things to happen? Oh and whoever said that god was just a way of putting the blame on him- where did you get that idea? oh and jesus died for our sins doesn't mean that your forgiven so why not sin as much as you want!

ok if you don't think god exists then why are we alive? how were things created? oh and god did create the world in 6 days but who says that a day for us is a day for god.(one day could have been a million years!)

here's a site that has some proof http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm (just copy and past)

anyway don't start judging me and thinking-o boy here comes some crazy person.

i'd like to hear a specific reason why someone doesn't beleive in god.