God Almighty terminated the wrong-doers

Curious Cdn

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I gotta say that there is something very sexy about these young Israeli women carrying semiautomatic weapons.

Make me write bad cheques!
 

taxslave

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If Mohammed is not a prophet, who then is a prophet?

Prophet Mohammed invited people to God alone, and to devote themselves solely to God alone without associate, peer, patron or son or daughter .. God is the Eternal, the Alive forever Who dies not, the Almighty and the Most Gracious.

This is the best proof indicating his truthfulness: his preaching to God alone as it is in the Commandment which is the most important of all the commandments: the First Commandment: that God is One without associate and that He alone should be worshiped and no one else.

About the Quran: it was written in the life time of Mohammed who ordered the Muslims to write every revelation, and he commanded that his own words: the hadiths should not be written lest it might be mixed and confused with the Quran; but the Quran was collected following his death, in the time of the third Caliph: Othman.

Moreover, the Quran is known by heart, like you know a poem by heart. So the Quran was known by heart by many of the companions of the prophet and by others.

Another point: you said he might be a madman .. so will the madman leave behind a religion pertaining to God and leave a most logical teachings and wisdom.

The admonition in the Quran The Conflict between the Torah and the Quran Google search.
The Disagreement of the

"God – be glorified – said in the Quran 17: 22-39, which mean:

{>> [O man] set not up with God another god, or you will sit condemned and forsaken.

>> [O Mohammed] your Lord decreed, that you [people] must worship none save Him, and [that you must show] kindness to parents; when one or both of them attain old age in your [home, O man]; then do not say to them any word of boredom, nor chide them, but speak to them respectful words.

>> And lower to them the wing of humility out of compassion, and say: "My Lord, bestow on them Your mercy even as they cherished me in childhood."

>> Your Lord knows best that [you hide] within yourselves if you are righteous, then [surely] He is Ever Forgiving for those who always revert.

>> And render to the kindred their due rights, as [also] to the needy, and to the wayfarer; but squander not [your wealth] in the manner of a spendthrift.
Surely, spendthrifts are brothers of devils, and the devil was ungrateful to his Lord.

>> And in case you turn away from them, seeking for a mercy that you hope of your Lord, then speak to them a reasonable word.

>> And let not your hand be bound to your neck nor open it so widely, lest you come to be blamed and denuded.

[O Mohammed] surely, your Lord gives provision in abundance to those of His servants whom He will, or He doles it out. Surely, He is All-Aware and All-Seeing of His servants.

>> And slay not your children for fear of penury; We will provide for them and for you, surely; to slay them is ever a great sin.

>> And approach not [women for] adultery; for it is ever an indecent [deed] and an evil [way.]

>> And kill not the soul which God has forbidden save by a right [cause]. Whoso is slain wrongfully, We have given power to his heir, but let him not commit excess in slaying; surely, he will be helped to overcome.

>> Approach not the wealth of the orphan save in that which is best, till he reach puberty, and fulfill the covenant; surely the covenant is ever inquired of.

>> Give full measure in case you measure out, and weigh with the standard weight; that is better and fairer in practice.

>> And do not go after that about which you [man] have no knowledge; for the hearing, the sight and the [spiritual] heart, of all these it shall be inquired.

>> And walk not upon the earth exultantly; certainly you [man] will never tear the earth open, nor attain the mountains in height.
All this is ever evil and abhorred in the sight of your Lord.

That is [some] of the wisdom your Lord has revealed to you [O Mohammed]; set not up another god with God, or you will be cast into Hell, dispraised and driven away.
}

If your idol was illiterat then how would he know the scribes wrote what he said?
 

MHz

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I can only interpret what I've read personally from a poster.
Just about lost you to all the troll posts, probably done in your honor after you pointed out you like to think for yourself.
In line with me promoting that Genesis was written to be understood by the generation that Revelations will effect how would your 21 century brain interpret a few things from the flood story. Moisture when it fall on high hills and mountain tops falls as snow rather than rain and that would explain why it was 5 months after it stopped raining before the rocks on the tops of the mountains were seen once again. (compared to enough water to flood the globe to a height 22ft higher than Mt. Everest) There is also the details about the Ark and the animals it contained. In Ge:2 God arranged for all the species of animals to come to Adam to be named so the garden has all the varieties there are and thes same animals were the ones that made it on board the Ark. (Ge:1 promotes 4 species, birds, fish, and land animals and all varieties are the result of adaptation over millions of years. Whales are birds that adapted to 'flying in the water instead of above the water.)
 

Ron in Regina

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If Mohammed is not a prophet, who then is a prophet?

Prophet Mohammed invited people to God alone, and to devote themselves solely to God alone without associate, peer, patron or son or daughter .. God is the Eternal, the Alive forever Who dies not, the Almighty and the Most Gracious.

This is the best proof indicating his truthfulness: his preaching to God alone as it is in the Commandment which is the most important of all the commandments: the First Commandment: that God is One without associate and that He alone should be worshiped and no one else.

About the Quran: it was written in the life time of Mohammed who ordered the Muslims to write every revelation, and he commanded that his own words: the hadiths should not be written lest it might be mixed and confused with the Quran; but the Quran was collected following his death, in the time of the third Caliph: Othman.

Moreover, the Quran is known by heart, like you know a poem by heart. So the Quran was known by heart by many of the companions of the prophet and by others.

Another point: you said he might be a madman .. so will the madman leave behind a religion pertaining to God and leave a most logical teachings and wisdom.....

Yeah, in this case, I believe so.

Selfsame, Muhammad wasn't even cold after his death
before his followers where fighting over interpretations
of his words, and in turn who would lead as his death.

1300+ years later, the fight is still going on, so you can't
sell the whole "Quran is known by heart" thing as the
Quran being understood the same way by all Muslims,
& if that's the case.....somebody is understanding it
incorrectly
. How do you know that whatever tangent of
this faith you follow isn't the wrong one?
 

Jinentonix

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Whales are birds that adapted to 'flying in the water instead of above the water.)
Wow, there's a WHOLE lot of uneducated ignorance in that statement. I think the animal you're referring to is called a "penguin".
Birds are not mammals, never were. Whales are mammals. There is absolutely nothing in the avian genetic code that could evolve it into a whale.
In fact, the cetaceans' closest living non-marine relative is the hippo, although hippos do spend quite a bit of time in the water.
 

MHz

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Wow, there's a WHOLE lot of uneducated ignorance in that statement.
I think the animal you're referring to is called a "penguin".
. . . and here I thought some people were saying I couldn't sum things up. My index is has about 3 lines on one page. Because of where they were mentioned in the reference they were the least important rather than they were a creation all on their own at that place in time in the earth's historical past to when the earth was about 4B years old. (roughly the age of when the sun started casting light out at a rate that shadows were found on the earth for the first event in the creation of life and that was sunlight and darkness. Later in the page the universe is covered down to how the length of the day/night cycle. Stars are mentioned at that point because they are the least important part of the universe as far being important information, at least in that part of the book. The last 4 books pick the story up as to when the last day/night cycle happens and the earth is 'fried' if it ever goes into tidal lock with the sun. (an extension of the moon/earth relationship)
Let's go with your version of bird/penguin path on a slowly ever changing path. I would agree that there is a relationship there but would also push that hair/feathers also have an historical path that is more common that different. I don't get too excited with the version that all 'life' came from one source so if we look at life as starting with 3 ways that life on earth progressed in a scientifically sound fashion then we can go from there as it looks like I may need to move a few things around without taking them off the table entirely. I could link to a series called 'How the Earth was Born' as a decent starting point that reflects the common thought of science today but I would also point out what things I agreed with and what I didn't agree with.
A 'summary' of what I currently see as being 'very plausible' concerning out past when history and science share a path that merges rather than crashes at some point in time and the Scripture comes along with a lightly 'refined version' that is as follows when the old earth model is used.
4Billion Years ago earth existed and sunlight existed and you would experience earth's first day/night and the force that made that happen was given the name of sunlight.
For that to happen the sun would have to exist and the moon and the stars and all other things that are part of 'heaven' in Ge:1:1, science would say that if one part exists then all the parts we know about today also existed if it was related to 'sunlight'. Earth that long ago was a molten ball of rock and the moon was 4x closer.
It would seem that the moon could exert a tidal force on that magma and the spin would make it a smooth operation rather than lots of 'volcanoes' as any 'gaseous' things would have been turned to vapor before impact so it was like a top spinning at its highest/most stable speed. Gravity/centrifugal could have sorted the molten rock into layers that were sensitive to the pull of the moon and that gravitational effect is seem in the oldest rock that shows 'layering by sedimentation' as is the current view. This goes on for 3,600,000,000 more years before the next phase starts.

400Million years ago the atmosphere began to be important to planet earth and the vapor that would be above a sea of molten rock would never have made it to the surface of 'the sea' to make a splash. No winds would mean the surface was mirror smooth even across the tidal bulge. That same bulge should have become the first part of the earth to have rain/snow fall on it first as the 'vapors' above descended as the earth cooled a bit. That is what happened in the next 360Million years.

40Million years ago the 'bulge' would have been the first places to see water on the ground and above in a visible cloud. 46 Million year later forests existed on the dry land that used to be a molten sea of rock. Today that would be called a 'forest' and the eco system that goes with it today would have been part of the transition back then. That means the creepy crawly things mentioned later on the page mentions them at that point because they are the least important life-form in Ge:1 rather than they were only created at that time as that would conflict with the standard scientific version.the orbits of the sun/moon/earth came to be what they are today. 4Billion years ago the length of a day was 6 hrs long rather than 12. In Re:20 there is no day/night cycle. The rains continued to cover more of the molten rock as it cooled the surface until the lowest levels began to collect liquid water.

4Million years ago The seas as we know them existed rather began to form as that happened perhaps as early as the time forests existed, birds are part of the forest but they are not as important as trees and fruit are to the history of life so they are mentioned later, when life in the air and in the sea was 'fully formed' Historically the cycle was light on a molten ball of rock that gradually cooled so that water could be found in vapor and liquid form. The co2 given off was the food for the forests just like today and o2 was released as a byproduct and birds and other forest dwellers would have existed then also.

400Thousand years ago the seas were full meaning the life that exists today existed in the same form that far back and life on land began in the form that we find it today. The 1st man would have been standing at that time also but the 'family part was not unto 6,000 years ago. (4,000BC is when the garden changed)

40Thousand years ago Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of good and evil and that is the time it took to explore all the variances,

4Thousand years ago the last giant dies and the 10 Commandments became the Law, on the day of return (Re:20) the people that are alive will take on the powers of the sons of God from Ge:6 and will be immortal but without sin. The new earth part for mankind will be when we explore the universe as that is what the place called 'the new earth' is.

Subject to change as new data arrives.

Birds are not mammals, never were. Whales are mammals.
This would be where the hair/feathers would enter the discussion.

There is absolutely nothing in the avian genetic code that could evolve it into a whale.
Species jumping is not likely, that is why I promote 3 species, birds, fish and land animals, adaptation to local conditions would take care of the rest for the most part. I would choose the option that says whales are closer to birds than they are to fish that came onto the land. At the moment being warm bloodied and having the same spinal motion are two points in favor of a relationship as well as a few million years to drip the 'bulky feathers' and lose the beak and all allow the nose to move up the face so breathing is easier. I wouldn't argue too hard for Orcas ever walking upright, at least in the past. One version has it being adaption at the extreme and the other promotes that whales are a 4th line of species.

In fact, the cetaceans' closest living non-marine relative is the hippo, although hippos do spend quite a bit of time in the water.
I wonder if they taste like bacon? Gives the hogs a rest from being overcrowded and we have enough shallow swampland that overcrowding isn't an issue for some time to come. Get a new ruling to label them swamp-sharks as they spend so much time in the water they should eventually become a fish, . . . again.

Does that timeline and applying today's knowledge blend more than collide? If it is blending then it points to the 'writer' of the first and last three chapters is the same 'writer'.
 

Ludlow

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You never had a case and you showed it by not having one though on any of the points I mentioned, the biggest being how your knowledge trumps somebody who has studied the book for 25 years and will be doing so for another 25. One of us is stuck there is no doubt about that but you are the ones lacking answers rather than it being me. I don't feel at all threatened by your lack of knowledge, I think you should know that.
The fact that you say you've been studying scripture for 25 years makes your limited knowledge of the subject all the more remarkable. I can only assume you are self taught.
 
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selfsame

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If your idol was illiterat then how would he know the scribes wrote what he said?

Prophet Mohammed was illiterate: he did not know the reading and writing. At that time, a little number of the Arab knew the writing and reading; although many of them were poets and they rejoiced with the poetry and the eloquence and fluency of language, but that was by speaking and knowing it by heart.

So his being illiterate is a proof of that he received the revelation from God. He heard the revelation from the angel Gabriel and then he recited the ayat (or Quranic revelations) to people, and his companions wrote them during his life, which were collected after his death.

Moreover, he desired earnestly that he could read and write, so as to write the revelations by himself, lest they might be lost or altered; therefore, God revealed to him these ayat, to confirm him:

Quran 29: 48-49, which mean:

[The Prophet – salam to him – wished that he would know the writing in order to write the Quran by his own hand, rather than his companions, so as to preserve it against alteration; therefore, this aya was revealed:]

{ 48. You [Mohammed] were not [able] to read any book before [the Quran] a, nor to write it with your right hand b; for then those who follow falsehood would have doubted.

49. But [the Quran] is evident revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge c, and none deny Our revelations [by seeking to alter Our revelations] save wrong-doers d.}
................................................................

a i.e. We have not let you read any book before the Quran, neither the Torah, nor the Gospel nor any other book.

b i.e. you could not write it with your right hand, because you have not learnt the writing, and this has been according to Our will, for had you known the writing and reading, then those following the falsehood would have found some means to insert doubt in the hearts of people, in order to bar them from believing in you; and for this reason, We have taught you neither the writing nor the reading of books.

c It means: Do not fear that some of the Quran may be altered because your companions, who have been given knowledge, have known it by heart, so don’t worry for that.

d So, in the Next Life, We will take revenge on every wrong-doer.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 
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CDNBear

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selfsame

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Yeah, in this case, I believe so.

Selfsame, Muhammad wasn't even cold after his death
before his followers where fighting over interpretations
of his words, and in turn who would lead as his death.

1300+ years later, the fight is still going on, so you can't
sell the whole "Quran is known by heart" thing as the
Quran being understood the same way by all Muslims,
& if that's the case.....somebody is understanding it
incorrectly
. How do you know that whatever tangent of
this faith you follow isn't the wrong one?

You are misguided.
Of course the history of Muslims after the Prophet was bloody. It is just like other human beings: and in fact they did as had done the nations before them, like the Children of Israel.

I may criticize the Muslims in another thread.

The Quran was written in the time of the Prophet himself, but was collected in one book after his death.
The Quran in Arabic means: the recital which is the reciting or rehearsing of Gabriel to the Prophet, while the word 'kitab' means the writing or the book.

Quran 2: 1-2, which mean:
{1. Alif, Lam, Miem a: which means: (Recite To them, O Mohammed!)

2. That [Quran ayat revealed before this aya*, and] written b [down by your companions on the parchment], whereof there is no doubt, guidance to ‘those who ward off [God's punishment.]’c}
..........................................................................

a These are abbreviated letters [like you say UN which means: the United Nations]; each letter indicates a word, and the letter is the first letter of the word: so the
أ indicates: Recite (which is the first aya of the Quran, 96: 1 , revealed to Prophet Mohammed);
ل indicates: To them or To people;
م indicates: Mohammed;
So the meaning of these three abbreviated letters in Arabic will be:
(Recite To them, O Mohammed!)

b The word (Quran) means (recital) which is that recited to Mohammed by Gabriel, while the word ‘written’ or book is related to the word (write.)
Therefore, before writing it down, it was a recital; and only after writing it, it might then be called ‘writings’ or book.
God in fact did not reveal any written book from heaven to Mohammed, but the ayat were revealed to Mohammed by Gabriel, and then Mohammed’s companions wrote them down on the parchment.

c by avoiding His disobedience.

* The ayat and soora's of the Quran which had been revealed before this soora, and had been written on the parchment.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 
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selfsame

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An example of the illiteracy of Prophet Mohammed:
The meat of camel: is it forbidden or not?

Quran 3: 93-95, which mean:

[The Jews objected to the Prophet about making lawful the camel meat, and that it was lawful to Abraham; so the Jews said: "Everything that we forbid, then it had also been forbidden to Noah, Abraham and other prophets until it has reached us";
therefore, this aya was revealed:]


93. All [kinds of food] were lawful to the Children of Israel except [the meat of camel] that Israel [: Jacob] forbade for himself a [in the days] before the Torah was revealed, [but later on when the Torah was revealed to Moses, God forbade you the meat of camel b.]

Say [Mohammed, to them]: "Produce the Torah and recite it [to us] if you indeed are truthful [in your claim.]"



94. And whoever after that [recital of the Torah c] shall invent a lie concerning God; such [liars] will be the wrong-doers d.
.....................................................................

a The meaning: Jacob did not forbid his sons any kind of foods, but only he forbade the camel meat for himself exclusively; and that was because of a disease that he had, so he made some dietary regimen.

b and others; that was because of your transgression.
But God has not forbidden it for us, Muslims.

So you said: the camel meat was forbidden for Jacob and his sons, and that it is written in our Torah [: the Law.]

c And the evidence becomes clear.

d Who deserve the punishment.
 
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selfsame

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[When the aya 3: 93 was revealed which means: (Say [Mohammed, to them]: "Produce the Torah and recite it [to us] if you indeed are truthful [in your claim.]"),
some of the Jews went to their scholars and asked them: "Is it written in the Torah that Abraham and his sons did not eat the camel meat because it was forbidden to them?"
They said: "No such thing is in the Torah."
So the Jews said: "You, Mohammed, have told the truth."
Therefore, this aya was revealed:]


{95. Say [Mohammed, to these Jews], "It is God Who said the truth [because I don't know the Unknown, and I don't know the statement of your Torah which is written in Hebrew e, but God told me all that by the tongue of Gabriel];
therefore, follow the faith of Abraham
f, a 'Hanief ' [: a monotheist,] who was not [one] of the associaters." g}
....................................................................

e And I don't know about the religion of Abraham. Therefore, you should say: "God has said the Truth"; and now when you have become certain that I am truthful, and the proofs or evidences have been manifested to my apostlehood …

f According to which I work, and acting according to its program; because Abraham was a 'Hanief', i.e. he devoted himself to God alone.

g Because Abraham did not worship the calf, Baalim, Astaroth or others; as did you [Jews] worship.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 

selfsame

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Another point: the Quran agree with the monotheism and the 'devotion to God alone' which is the basis of the Torah, but the Quran gave many statements that disagree with the statements of the Torah; therefore, some Jews objected to Prophet Mohammed - salam to him.

Quran 2: 106-107, which mean:

[When God’s word in the Quran 6: 146 was revealed, which means:
(To Jews We forbade every [animal] with undivided hoof [and chew the cud.] And of oxen and sheep forbade We to them the fat thereof save what [fat] the backs of both do bear..etc.)
The prophet said: "God, please alleviate and do not restrain the obligations for my nation!" Therefore, this aya was revealed:]


106. Such of the revelations [of the Torah] as We may annul a [in the Quran] or preserve b, We will bring [in the Quran] one better than it c or one similar to it d. Don't you know that God has the power to do all that He wills? e

107. Don't you [Mohammed] know that the kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs to God [so that God gives you the knowledge of the prophets and makes you the heir of their knowledge?]

And, apart from God, you [people] have neither patron [to take care about your affairs] nor helper [to help you against your enemies, but only God.]
........................................................................

a i.e. any statement of the Torah which We invalidate (or put out of action) for you, Muslims.

b i.e. or We leave the law of the Torah aya as it is in the Torah: i.e. We impose it on you.

c i.e. better than that Torah and easier than it: in order to alleviate that for you, Muslims.

d i.e. We bring to you a statement similar to the statement of that aya of the Torah which has not been annulled.

e So that He will bring to you, statements that are easier and lighter than the statements of the Torah.
Therefore, the "abrogated" is that which is in the Torah, and the Quran is the "abrogating" or annulling of such laws.

Similar to this aya, is another aya in the Quran 16: 101, which means:
(When We exchange one revelation [of the Torah] for [another] revelation [in the Quran], – and God knows best what He reveals [of statements proper for every nation ]– the [Jews] say [to Our messenger Mohammed]: "You are only a forger [because you have not brought laws identical with the laws of the Torah.]"
But most of them are not acquainted [about the truth.])

In fact, the Quran does not include any change or alteration in its statements [i.e. its ayat do not abrogate or annul other ayat], contrary to what Muslims think; the indication of this is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 6: 34, which means: (There is none that can alter the words of God, and already have you received some account of those apostles [or messengers.])

And He said also in the same soora 6: 115, which means:
(Your Lord's word [of promising you, Mohammed and the believers with victory] has been fulfilled in truthfulness and justice.
None can change His words;
He is the All-Hearing [of their words], the All-Knowing [of their acts.])

Moreover, God – be glorified – said in the Quran 10: 64, which means:
(For them is the good tidings [that they will be admitted into Paradise in heaven, as is it declared by the Quran] in the life of this World,
and [angels will give them good tidings] in the Next Life [of admission into Paradise.]
There can be no change in the word of God.
Such [reward and good tidings, indeed,] is the supreme success [in the Next Life.])

Among the laws of the Torah that God invalidated (or put out of action) for Muslims, is the meat and fat which He forbade for Jews and made lawful for Muslims; as in the Quran 6: 146, which means:
(To Jews We forbade every [animal] with undivided hoof [and chew the cud.] And of oxen and sheep forbade We to them the fat thereof save what [fat] the backs of both do bear..etc.)
In addition to many other statements.

While the laws that have been forbidden to Muslims as had they been forbidden to Jews; some of them are: the pork, the dead, the blood and that which is dedicated to those other than God.

Some of such laws is the drinking of wine: it had been forbidden to Jews in the Torah, and God has kept its forbidding to Muslims in the Quran; as in His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 5: 90, which means:
(Believers, the wine, the gambling, idol-altars and Azlam [lots]; [all these] are but filthy [psychological] illness [: some] of Satan handiwork, so avoid that; haply you may succeed.)

While the forbidding of the wine in the Torah is mentioned in the Book of Proverbs 23: 29-35
"29 - Who hath woe? Whose father hath woe? Who hath contentions? Who falls into pits? Who hath wounds without cause? Who hath redness of eyes?
30 - Surely they that pass their time in wine, and study to drink off their cups.
31 - Look not upon the wine when it is yellow, when the colour thereof shines in the glass. It goes in pleasantly.
32 - But in the end it will bite like a snake, and will spread abroad its poison like a basilisk.
33 - The eyes shall behold strange women: and your heart shall utter perverse things.
34 - And you shall be as one sleeping in the midst of the sea, and as a pilot fast asleep, when the stern is lost.
35 - And you shall say: They have beaten me, but I was not sensible of pain: they drew me, and I felt not. When shall I awake, and find wine again?”

In addition, it is mentioned in the Book of Isaiah, chapter 4:
"11 - Woe to you that rise up in the morning to follow drunkenness and to drink till the evening, to be inflamed with wine.
12 - The harp and the lyre and the timbler and the pipe and wine are in your feasts: and the work of the Lord you regard not, nor do you consider the works of His hands.
13 - Therefore is my people led away captive, because they had not knowledge: and their nobles have perished with famine, and their multitude were dried up with thirst.
14 - Therefore, has hell enlarged her soul and opened her mouth without any hands… etc."

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.