Full Version: Hitchens and Boteach Debate on God

[Scott Free]

This also is an evasion; this implies that you can mention no one better than Mohammed.

The man was a paedophile, murderer and lying scum. Just about everyone is better than him. You would have to scrap the sh!t of a pigs ass to find worse.

This is so clear like the sun in the sky.

Your blinded by ignorance.

 

[eanassir]

No, I prefer the intellect to faith.

If you have intellect you can find precious stones and gems.

According to your intelligence, it may be we see the jewels shining in your face.

 

[eanassir]

But I did answer it.

Don't be like Canaan, the grandson of Noah; he loved the daughter of some of the idolaters, and they cheated him, that if he stay with them and not go with his grandfather Noah, they will give him that girl to marry her.​

Therefore, he became bewildered what to do: would he stay with the girl and her people: the idolaters, and he knew he would then be drowned in the flood or deluge? Or will he go in the Ark with Prophet Noah and be saved, but would then lose his beloved girl?​

Then he said "I shall go to a mountain to protect me from the flood" but he was then drowned together with the disbelievers and lost the dignity and safety with Noah: the apostle of God. ​

This is in the Quran 6: 71​

قُلْ أَنَدْعُو مِن دُونِ اللّهِ مَا لاَ يَنفَعُنَا وَلاَ يَضُرُّنَا وَنُرَدُّ عَلَى أَعْقَابِنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَانَا اللّهُ كَالَّذِي اسْتَهْوَتْهُ الشَّيَاطِينُ فِي الأَرْضِ حَيْرَانَ لَهُ أَصْحَابٌ يَدْعُونَهُ إِلَى الْهُدَى ائْتِنَا قُلْ إِنَّ هُدَى اللّهِ هُوَ الْهُدَىَ وَأُمِرْنَا لِنُسْلِمَ لِرَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ​

The explanation:
(Say: "Shall we call, apart from God, on [idols] that neither profit nor hurt us,
and shall we be turned back on our heels, even after that God has guided us; ​

like one [: Canaan, the grandson of Noah] deceived by the [human] devils in the earth, [the family of his beloved girl who were devils among people] ​

so was perplexed,
[and] having some friends [in the Ark] calling him to guidance, [saying to him]: "Come with us [on the Ark!]" ​

Say [Mohammed]: "God's guidance is the [sure] guidance [: You cannot misguide him whom God has guided], ​

and we are commanded to surrender to the Lord of the worlds.")​

 

[eanassir]

The man was a paedophile, murderer and lying scum.

These are some evident lies, to which you insist; and you are sinful with your obvious lies and your atheism. In case you apostatize or disbelieve, then know that God does not need anyone out of all nations and peoples.

As He said in the Quran 14: 8

وَقَالَ مُوسَى إِن تَكْفُرُواْ أَنتُمْ وَمَن فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا فَإِنَّ اللّهَ لَغَنِيٌّ حَمِيدٌ​

The explanation:
(And Moses said: "If you unbelieve together with whoso is on earth altogether, then assuredly God is in no need [of your worship, and He is] a Praiseworthy.")​

 

[Scott Free]

The rantings of a deluded madman.

God has no power. He doesn't exist.

The only thing giving the myth power is that people believe it and are willing to kill those that oppose it.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...know that God does not need anyone...

Crap. It's perfectly clear from Jewish, Christian, and Islamic scriptures that he does need to be worshiped, that's what he created humanity to do. He's a megalomaniac, a psychopath, a genocidal mass murderer, jealous, vindictive, and one of the nastiest characters ever created. Fortunately he has no reality outside the realm of ideas, so he can't really do any of the things you think he can. Unfortunately, you believe he can, and that you can act on his behalf, as his agent. I believe, in fact, that you believe I, as an atheist, deserve a painful death and eternal torment, that you would cheerfully kill me in the name of Allah if you thought you could get away with it, and you'd consider it a good deed. I think your beliefs are beneath contempt. They're primitive, ignorant, and stupid.

 

[darkbeaver]

I think both sides should seek independent totally unbiased consulatation with a known expert in the field of monkey business, which of course is what this thread is all about.
Now before we begin would anyone one like a nice banana? see MP skit #37.5 (assault with sharp banana)

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

The truth is so obvious about your prophet Mohammed - why cant you see it?

He is a fraud and a dirty filthy lier.

:angryfire::angryfire::angryfire:

muhammad ( prophet of islam )

what do others say about him ?

Before We Begin our "A to Z of Muhammad" - Let's See What 12 Famous People Have Said About Muhammad (peace be upon him) Throughout the Centuries...

His complete biography has been authenticated and circulated amongst scholars around the world starting while he was still alive and continuing up until today. One of the first examples we quote from is from the Encyclopedia Britannica, as it confirms:


(Regarding Muhammad) "... a mass of detail in the early sources shows that he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were likewise honest and upright men."

[Vol. 12]

Another impressive tribute to Muhammad, peace be upon him is in the very well written work of Michael H. Hart, "The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History." He states that the most influential person in all history was Muhammad, peace be upon him, with Jesus second. Examine his actual words:


"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."


[Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, page. 33.]

According to the Quran, Prophet Muhammad was the most excellent example for all of humanity. Even non-Muslim historians recognize him to be one of the most successful personalities in history. Read what the Reverend R. Bosworth-Smith wrote in "Mohammed & Mohammedanism" in 1946:


"Head of the state as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but, he was pope without the pope's claims, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue. If ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by a Right Divine, it was Mohammad, for he had all the power without instruments and without its support. He cared not for dressing of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life."

While we are reviewing statements from famous non-Muslims about Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, consider this:


"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"


[Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.]

And then we read what George Bernard Shaw, a famous writer and non-Muslim says:


"He must be called the Savior of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness."


[The Genuine Islam, Singapore, Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936]

Then we found that K. S. Ramakrishna Rao, an Indian (Hindu) professor of Philosophy, in his booklet "Muhammad the Prophet of Islam" calls him the "perfect model for human life." Professor Ramakrishna Rao explains his point by saying:


"The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes. There is Muhammad the Prophet. There is Muhammad the Warrior; Muhammad the Businessman; Muhammad the Statesman; Muhammad the Orator; Muhammad the Reformer; Muhammad the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad the Judge; Muhammad the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero."

What should we think about our prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, when someone with the worldly status such as Mahatma Gandhi, speaking on the character of Muhammad, peace be upon him, says in 'Young India':


"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind... I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

English author Thomas Carlyle in his 'Heroes and Hero Worship', was simply amazed:


"How one man single handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades."

And Diwan Chand Sharma wrote in "The Prophets of the East":


"Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him"


[D.C. Sharma, The Prophets of the East, Calcutta, 1935, pp. 12]


Muhammad, peace be upon him, was nothing more or less than a human being, but he was a man with a noble mission, which was to unite humanity on the worship of ONE and ONLY ONE GOD and to teach them the way to honest and upright living based on the commands of God. He always described himself as, 'A Servant and Messenger of God' and so indeed every action of his proclaimed to be.

Speaking on the aspect of equality before God in Islam, the famous poetess of India, Sarojini Naidu says:


"It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'... I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother."


[S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, vide Speeches & Writings, Madras, 1918, p. 169]

In the words of Professor Hurgronje:


"The league of nations founded by the prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations." He continues, "the fact is that no nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done towards the realization of the idea of the League of Nations."

Edward Gibbon and Simon Ockley, on the profession of ISLAM, writes in "History of the Saracen Empires":


"I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD, AND MAHOMET, AN APOSTLE OF GOD' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honor of the Prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtues; and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."


[History of the Saracen Empires, London, 1870, p. 54]

EWolfgang Goethe, perhaps the greatest European poet ever, wrote about Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. He said:


"He is a prophet and not a poet and therefore his Koran is to be seen as Divine Law and not as a book of a human being, made for education or entertainment."


[Noten und Abhandlungen zum Weststlichen Dvan, WA I, 7, 32]


[Please continue to chapter 5 - "What Do Muslims Say?"]

of

http://prophetofislam.com/

 

[Scott Free]

Hmmmm, I wonder what all the people he killed would say about him; or the little girl he molested; or his slaves; or the hundreds of Jews he allowed to be butchered?

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Hmmmm, I wonder what all the people he killed would say about him

any person have mission personality should be hers enemies and they hate it

then they blurring his photo
, and what you know about prophet muhammad the photo blurring his ,
any person have mission personality should be hers enemies and they hate it

then they blurring his photo
, and what you know about prophet muhammad the photo blurring his ,
because you take information of the people how hate him ,and prophet muhammad don't killing , just the fighter the killer him , or for the betrayal him

; or the little girl he molested;

just go to historical books and read how old when the women was getting married at the 6 ce
,ntury "remember mohamed was in the 6 century" so just in the 19 century women been married at the age of 13-14 years old "ask your grand mother and she will tell you", at the 19 century women been married at 12 years old , so how about the 6 century ? do you think mohamed did a mistake when it was the normal life for anyone
and the life in the weather hot , not such as life in weather cold , of accretion locality
and eat aliment sanitary he get
the person accretion faster ,
and arab before his eat aliment
sanitary the milk of she camel and Tamr of sieving
it carry ingredient your not believe him ,
and alliance she because mind known , then she become knowing , after prophet muhammad leave the world .

or his slaves;

his exhortation to free the slaves

and him got the people free the more of slaves

or the hundreds of Jews he allowed to be butchered?

because they veto what him confide to him , and they fight the muslims backside , when the muslims fight the enemy

 

[Scott Free]

any person have mission personality should be hers enemies and they hate it

!?!?! :-?

then they blurring his photo

Who's photo?

, and what you know about prophet muhammad the photo blurring his ,
any person have mission personality should be hers enemies and they hate it

Are you saying there is a photo of muhammad somewhere because that isn't possible. Photography wasn't invented. :roll:

, and what you know about prophet muhammad the photo blurring his ,
because you take information of the people how hate him ,and prophet muhammad don't killing , just the fighter the killer him , or for the betrayal him

I can't figure out the photo stuff...

but are you saying muhammad only killed people who betrayed him, that is to say, people he didn't like or didn't like him? That's not a justification for slaughtering people. Only a murderous madman would think just because someone is his enemy he is justified in slaying them. Hitler did the same sort of thing, Stalin too, Conan too for all of that, not great company to be in and certainly not merciful, caring, loving, or any other such adjective you seem so inclined to ascribe to this lunatic.

I think you may have just shed some light on why the ME is so f**ked up.

just go to historical books and read how old when the women was getting married at the 6 ce
,ntury "remember mohamed was in the 6 century" so just in the 19 century women been married at the age of 13-14 years old "ask your grand mother and she will tell you", at the 19 century women been married at 12 years old , so how about the 6 century ?

So god is subject to ethics now? He doesn't know right from wrong except by what is happening around him? God didn't know this would be an issue today? That doesn't sound like god to me.... I thought god was supposed to tell us what is right and wrong but it turns out he learns it from us!!! That's what Richard Dawkins said too. How about that huh? You agree with an atheist

just go to historical books and read how old when the women was getting married at the 6 ce
,ntury "remember mohamed was in the 6 century" so just in the 19 century women been married at the age of 13-14 years old "ask your grand mother and she will tell you", at the 19 century women been married at 12 years old , so how about the 6 century ? do you think mohamed did a mistake when it was the normal life for anyone
and the life in the weather hot , not such as life in weather cold , of accretion locality
and eat aliment sanitary he get
the person accretion faster ,
and arab before his eat aliment
sanitary the milk of she camel and Tamr of sieving
it carry ingredient your not believe him ,
and alliance she because mind known , then she become knowing , after prophet muhammad leave the world .

I have no idea what any of that means.

Anyway, muhammad married a 6 year old girl and then "consummated" the "marriage" when she was 9.

That is not normal male behaviour buddy.

If muhammad was actually from god then he really had absolutely no excuse!! He had every reason to know better. And, more importantly, maybe god could have helped him with his paedophilia!!!!!!

because they veto what him confide to him , and they fight the muslims backside , when the muslims fight the enemy

So he had them captured and defenceless. He had them slaughtered and thrown into a trentch. muhammad is sounding more and more like Hitler all the time...

Anyway, such a man is not from god. He is vile, remorseless, ruthless and a mass killer. If Muhammad was from god then maybe Hitler, Saddam and Bush are too :roll:

 

[scratch]

!?!?! :-?



Who's photo?



Are you saying there is a photo of muhammad somewhere because that isn't possible. Photography wasn't invented. :roll:



I can't figure out the photo stuff...

but are you saying muhammad only killed people who betrayed him, that is to say, people he didn't like or didn't like him? That's not a justification for slaughtering people. Only a murderous madman would think just because someone is his enemy he is justified in slaying them. Hitler did the same sort of thing, Stalin too, Conan too for all of that, not great company to be in and certainly not merciful, caring, loving, or any other such adjective you seem so inclined to ascribe to this lunatic.

I think you may have just shed some light on why the ME is so f**ked up.



So god is subject to ethics now? He doesn't know right from wrong except by what is happening around him? God didn't know this would be an issue today? That doesn't sound like god to me.... I thought god was supposed to tell us what is right and wrong but it turns out he learns it from us!!! That's what Richard Dawkins said too. How about that huh? You agree with an atheist



I have no idea what any of that means.

Anyway, muhammad married a 6 year old girl and then "consummated" the "marriage" when she was 9.

That is not normal male behaviour buddy.

If muhammad was actually from god then he really had absolutely no excuse!! He had every reason to know better. And, more importantly, maybe god could have helped him with his paedophilia!!!!!!





So he had them captured and defenceless. He had them slaughtered and thrown into a trentch. muhammad is sounding more and more like Hitler all the time...

Anyway, such a man is not from god. He is vile, remorseless, ruthless and a mass killer. If Muhammad was from god then maybe Hitler, Saddam and Bush are too :roll:

I am at a loss with this, but I agree with your comment on Hitler, Saddam and Bush.