French burka ban proposal riles Muslims
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
Masks and other face coverings are perfectly legal in Canada.
Also I think you are confused about which country you live in. Canada is multicultural, which means we tolerate and respect other cultures, including ones where people wear unusual clothing.
Canadian Multiculturalism
If you don't like this aspect of Canada, why not move to the US?
Now you are talking about a public safety issue. Public safety trumps cultural and religious freedoms.
Sikhs cannot take their daggers onto a plane for example.
Wow, you really are stretching if that's the best comparison you can come up with.
Walk into a bank with a balaclava on and see how your "rights' hold up.
That's certainly true. Same with Pentacostals, who insist that the women never cut their hair.
Again, absolutely.
Why is it, some will justify the forced wearing of the burqa, not being allowed to cut ones hair, and so on, but as soon as society takes the same tone but opposite requirement, it's labeled racism, a rights abuse, and so on.
And now I'm sure I will be inundated with claims that some Muslim women want to wear the burqa. I'm sure this is true and I won't even attempt to prove otherwise. But I will offer this...
An elephant is a mighty beast, capable of squashing man or breaking chains, with little effort. Yet you see them tied to posts with small pieces or rope. Or acquiesce to mans wishes with fear. Why is that?
Because, since it was a baby, it was tied to a post it could not break free from. It was trained by man, that he could not disobey. That elephant was conditioned to believe, that this is how it would be forevermore.
Women in oppressive cultures, homes, relationships or lifestyles, are equally under the same delusion.
If one truly supports the equality of women, the rights of all women as equals. They would support lifting the veil and allowing them to see life beyond the trappings of man.
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It might be arrogance, but not ignorance.... I was fully aware that the poster is from Canada, which was in part of the joke I was trying to pass along with my above comment you quoted.
Indeed.... he sounded like a closed minded "My way is the only way, everybody else should adopt my way or get out of my country" mentality.... as if this country isn't based on multiculturalism and tolerance of those cultures, but some White-Only, Super-Christian Flag waving nation that is justified in telling others how to dress because it's different from them..... who uses extremely un-related excessive examples to justify their position on opposing someone's point of view of what they wear (which harms nobody) and seems to exclude any other religious attire that covers much of someone's body and face because those religions are related to Christianity.
Like I said.... "You's sound'n like dem 'Mericans down south."
Bullsh!t!!! There are huge portions of the country that aren't white, not Christian and have a similar opinion.
Again, bullsh!t. Now you're just reading between the lines.
And you sound like a card carrying member of the morally and ethically bankrupt left elitist class that will sell out our country to favour your version of the "Multicult", while ignoring the evidence staring you in the face from Europe.Like I said.... "You's sound'n like dem 'Mericans down south."
Ah, so assimilation is so much better huh?
Cuz that worked so well in the past..... what with the natives and the french and all.... having your own culture you were born and raised in completely stripped away from you and wiped to adopt a completely different culture that you subjectively believe should be protected is also cultural suicide.
I agree that those coming into our country need to learn about our general cultural practices, our laws, our language, etc...... but so long as their own cultural beliefs do not pose a risk to anybody here, and so long as their cultural beliefs do not break any of our existing laws or infringe on anybody's rights..... they should have full rights to keep those parts of their culture when coming here, including what they wear for whatever reason.
Wearing a burqa doesn't break the law, it harms no one, and it's not infringing on any of your own rights.... so there's no logical justification to ban it.
Besides, you claim multiculturalism is the suicide of culture..... ok then.... so if our country shouldn't have multiculturalism, then who's culture should we all adopt to?
Should I be forced to wear cowboy boots, a cowboy hat and tight fitting jeans because people in Alberta wear those things?
Should I be forced to actually end my sentences with "Eh?"
Or how about I emphasize my abouts as "eh'boots?"
You're basically telling me and everyone else that we have to suicide our cultures to promote one particular culture so that that culture doesn't die.
How about you be responsible for your own culture and family history, while I and others do the same?
The greater majority of suicide bombers I've read up on over the years were not people covered in burqas and just because one or two people used them in the past for an attack is not an excuse to ban them outright.... otherwise I guess we should also ban underwear, baggy pants, hats, shoes, or anything else that can conceal a weapon or bomb.... eventually we'll all have to walk down the streets naked because everything can be used to conceal a weapon...... no wait.... soon we'll also have to have our asses regularly checked for bombs and weapons too.
Oh, someone used a car to make a car bomb..... let's ban cars now.
What is that old saying gun activist continually use?
Guns don't kill people, people kill people...... so if that is the case, Burqas don't kill people, nor do the bombs someone has strapped to their arse the things that kill people...... people kill people.
So the above argument is unfounded too.
You obviously know very little about Quebec history!!!
So long as their identity isn't hidden and so long as those practices aren't the subjugation of the rights of others. The burqa is an affront to the moral core of our society.
Unless it promotes and proliferates misogyny, as it does.
Anyone you like, so long as it doesn't fly in the face of our societal codes.
What an absolutely ignorant, juvenile and excellent example of stupidity in stereotyping.
Indeed.... and let's not forget that you don't need a big bomb to take down a passenger plane either.... all you need is a decent sized hole made in the side of the plane at a high altitude and you'll have a plane shred to pieces with everybody going for some old-skool flying lessons.
And you don't need a big bomb if you use a little bomb strapped to a large container of fuel, like a large propane tank, or transport truck loaded with oil or some other fuel on it's way to a gas station..... or even the gas station itself.
Just because you claim something, doesn't make it true, nor do generalizations prove a point.
Yes there are some women in the world who may be oppressed or separated from society because of the burqa because they're forced to wear it against their own will..... but that does not apply to every women who wears the Burqa and many in Moderate Islam who do wear the Burqa do so by their own free will and choice and for their own reasons they don't need to explain to you.
But I did supply a few months ago a few interviews from muslim women who wear burqas and explained their personal reasons for wearing them, which went beyond just religious faith, but also practical reasons..... they also explained that they can wear whatever they want and do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes, and they prefer using the Burqa in public because they don't like random strangers whistling or starring at them as they try to go about their day.
The only thing being infringed upon by them wearing the burqa is that some horn dog construction workers don't get the right to eye candy them as they walk down the street.
I can't blame them.
Go ahead and take a look around for actual interviews and comments from the women who actually wear these things...... it all sounds wonderful and noble for everybody who doesn't practice the religion nor wear the burqa to try and justify themselves for banning the burqa as protecting these women..... but when the hell has anybody bothered to ask these women what they think about banning it or to ask them their own reasons why they wear one?
You really have no clue what you're talking about and just parroting the same garbage that's been spreading around for the last couple of years already.
It may apply to some situations and indeed there may be some women being oppressed, and they should be protected and given the right to choose for themselves.... but the above does not apply to all and it is not enough justification to simply ban something all out based on your own ignorance and intolerance.
If that was permitted, then I can list off a pile of things I think should be banned because a select group of people are abused/oppressed because of those things, regardless if the majority of everybody else isn't.
Cripes those lame examples again?
And people in these forums complain about people continually using Hitler and the Holocaust as extreme examples to prove a baseless point. :roll:
Oh well I guess that settles it then.... pssh.
Don't forget your cowboy boots on your way out to Alberta.
I guess you missed my analogy.
Ya, and I can find a litany of Injuns that think the man is activily keeping us down too.
Speaking of "Lame examples" Strawman.
Then instead of banning it, lets make it law that the men of the faith must wear it. Then lets see how long that aspect of that culture is adhered to.
Full stop! As soon as you admit that you justify its banning. Just as we write laws to prevent abhorrent acts, because of examples thereof. Thank you, now if only you could understand your own words.
To quote you...
"You really have no clue what you're talking about and just parroting the same garbage that's been spreading around for the last couple of years already."
By all means share.
They bear repeating when dealing with the morally bankrupt.
It's not baseless. It's fact, the origins of the burqa is oppression, pure and simple. Just because you haven't the ability to see beyond your nose doesn't change fact.
Yes, yes it does. Thanx for catching on.
Did your head spring a leak?
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Really? And you base those "Huge Portions" on what?
Regardless of your or other's opinions, there is no legal justification to ban them, and ignorant opinions are not justification.
I'm not reading between anything.... I see no calls for Mennonites, Orthodox Jews, the Amish, nuns, priests, etc. and their guidelines of what they wear or look like being challenged.... and the argument about the face being covered is a piss poor, very lame excuse to single out Islam and the Muslim culture from all the other religions and cultures, since in most everyday situations, seeing someone's face is not mandatory nor needed.
If you plan to restrict one, then restrict all.
Oh my feelings are hurt :roll:
You're damn right I'll express my own views and versions of what I believe this country should be, regardless if it pisses in your corn flakes or not.... you can label or call me anything you damn well please, it just confirms you ran out of any valid arguments (which you haven't had any from the start) and have to resort to petty little quips.
The only evidence I see from the EU is just more of the same contradictory, ignorant and short-sighted mentality they have expressed for years...... the same group of clowns who finger point at our country for our so-called misdeeds towards our fishing industry and seal hunt, whom wiped out their own fish stocks and environment which lead to them invading our own territory to rape more of our resources because of their own incompetence...... the same EU who listens to brainless celebrities and nature terrorists whom dictate their laws and procedures because they don't have a back bone to stand up for what's right and legit.
And France with the majority of the population supporting a ban on the Burqa because they fear what they don't understand and are led around by a President known as a womanizer, who married a model and feels it's his god given right to see all women as a sexual object.... and if he could get away with it, he'd probably pass a law that would force all women to walk around naked....... all because they're being oppressed by having to cover up...... oh those poor poor women......
Please won't someone think of the women and their naked bodies!!! :roll:
Facts.
Typical tactic, we must be ignorant and intolerant and racist and so on. That argument falls flat on its face when fully examined.
Then you obviously haven't read all my posts.
Which is why I fully support the Gov't in denying license to religious ects that feel photographs are against their religion. Again, you obvious have me confused with someone else.
Agreed.
I doubt you have the capacity to understand why they should be.
Cool, I support that, now how about you leave out the rhetoric, condescension and elitist attitude, then you wouldn't get so much condemnation when you offer an opinion.
The fact that that is how you came it this thread, is why you get it back. Grow some balls, some thicker skin and then up.
Way to ignore the causes of it.
strawman...
To quote you again...
"Just because you claim something, doesn't make it true, nor do generalizations prove a point."
:roll:...quite.
Sez you..... you don't speak for our society, nor do I speak for our society..... our societies are what we make of them.... if I want to go around in the winter wearing a big ski mask and goggles, or I want to go walking around the city in the summer time with a big mosquito hat on, I'll do so at my own leisure and you not knowing what I look like is irrelevant, nor do I have any obligation to show you my face if you demand..... all you'd end up getting is a big FU and a finger in your face.
If I however need to get a government ID or need to ID myself for some other reasons, then I will show what I look like, and I agree that even women who wear the Burqa should have to abide to this...... but a ban is not a solution.
The only mistrust and hatred being promoted is the mistrust & hatred you and others like you are spreading by acting like these women are terrorists just waiting to kill us all..... which leads to women wearing the burqa being seen as enemies or a danger to those around them...... that these women can not be trusted, thus we need to remove their right to choose what they wear because by your reasoning, if we can't see their face, then they must be hiding something.
Or did you mean something else when you used the word Misogyny.
And what are these Social Codes you speak of?
Cuz you've been doing so much better so far :roll:
It was both.
Indeed.... he sounded like a closed minded "My way is the only way, everybody else should adopt my way or get out of my country" mentality.... as if this country isn't based on multiculturalism and tolerance of those cultures, but some White-Only, Super-Christian Flag waving nation that is justified in telling others how to dress because it's different from them..... who uses extremely un-related excessive examples to justify their position on opposing someone's point of view of what they wear (which harms nobody) and seems to exclude any other religious attire that covers much of someone's body and face because those religions are related to Christianity.
Like I said.... "You's sound'n like dem 'Mericans down south."
Nope. He sounds just like a Canadian with a different point of view. Face it. You aren't as accepting as you claim no matter how much you claim it.
Whatever sound an ostrich makes when he puts his head in the sand is what you are sounding like now.
If you like to, sure, give it a shot.... but since you wish to ban it right off the mark, what's the point in this exercise?
Only someone who has taken what I said out of context by separating and commenting on the one point being made and can not see the bigger picture (or as you put it later down, can't see beyond your nose) would think that was the point I was making.
Simply banning something is always the quick and easy way of solving a problem you don't really care about, let alone care about those it affects.
Once again, did you ever bother to ask a woman who wears a burqa to see what she thinks? Have you ever bothered to look at all the angles of this subject, or have you just relied on the same old one-sided aspect against them as being oppressive, etc.?
Rather then relying on hearsay from one person who studied or asked someone about a subject and has a bias approach, how about you go directly to the source and ask those directly involved in this situation to know what they feel about all this?
I suppose that's too much work for some people who don't like being proved wrong.
Unless I'm a member of the authorities and public safety is a concern.
Of course, that about what I would expect from a child.
In your opinion.
At no time have I stated that at all what so ever. But again, quoting you...
"Just because you claim something, doesn't make it true, nor do generalizations prove a point."
No I meant misogyny as it is defined.
That women are equals, an negative view of misogyny, oppression, adherence to archaic pseudo religious practice.
Until I was on the receiving end of your childish condescending BS, yes. But the commentary that that was in reference to was just that. Ignorant, juvenile and an excellent example of the stupidity in stereotyping.
And don't confuse yourself in an attempt to claim I'm stereotyping. I have not claimed that Muslim women are terrorists, or will use the burqa to bomb anything. I have and will continue to derive my opinion from the FACT that the burqa is an antiquated, archaic, pseudo religious device, used to subjugate women, because of a misogynistic ideology, based on mans interpretation of the Quran.
:lol: and you complain about me..... at least I supply sources to what I claim is fact.
Pot meet kettle. You give sh*t, you get sh*t back.
How I came into this thread?
Last I checked, I was the one who created this thread to begin with...... perhaps you should grow a memory...... along with some proper hand/eye co-ordination so that you can type a sentence that can be understood.
No I didn't want to ban it right off the mark. Until I know what it was and what it means, I didn't care.
And the point is, in a misogynistic religion like Islam, the burqa wouldn't exist now, IMHO, if it was the men that had to wear it.
And only someone so bereft of critical thought would think that I thought that was the point you were making. Hence why I included the clarification, If only you could understand your own words.
Wrong. I am a die hard human right advocate. I believe in free speach, i believe in freedom of religion. But as sure as I condemn any aspect of any religion that uses archaic, antiquated or misogynistic policies to subjugate, negate or diminish in someway a member of our society, I take issue with it.
Again, you've missed my analogy. Have you ever had a conversation with a battered women, whose husband is sitting in the back of a cruiser for beating her as she says. "He's really a nice guy, he just has a drinking problem, and I burned dinner".
I know you'll simply dismiss this FACT. Because it doesn't support you opinion.
Of course I have. You have no idea who I am. That is grossly exampled by your claims about why I wish to see the burqa banned. You have no idea who I am, let alone what I believe and why. Even when I write it out in plain English, you fail to grasp it. Because you have a preconceived notion and that's all that matter.
So please don't ask me again, about whether or not I've looked at the big picture. You can even see the one right infront of you.
Again, why don't you go ask a battered woman why she's bailing out the man who just beat her?
I suppose you aren't bright enough to understand the analogy I offered and have referred to a few times now. Which is why it's likely to much work to go back and take a look.
You can say that again.
I'm quite accepting of different people with different beliefs and cultural backgrounds..... I am not accepting of people who try and force their beliefs and views on other people as if it's their right.
Those who force women to wear the burqa against their will are people I do not accept...... and those who force women to not wear the burqa against their free will or they face legal punishment I do not accept either.... and those people on both sides of the debate are of the same frame of mind.
In other words, those who put these women in the middle of this stink and feel it's their right to make decisions for them about banning the Burqa without asking them are just as bad as the people who are forcing them to wear the Burqa or face punishment.
You and others can get all up on your high horsed and think you're doing the more moral thing and protecting people, but all you're doing is adding more to the oppression...... and that's what I am against.
If a woman freely chooses to wear a Burqa, for whatever reasons they deem fit, then they should be allowed..... anybody who forces them to wear one against their will should be the one's punished and charged..... it's as simple as that.
That's ok, because when I read your posts, all that comes into my head is:
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.........
So you aren't aware that the burqa was born as a tool for the subjugation of women?
I didn't think you were that ignorant of the subject.
Today, again, I didn't think you were that dumb, I guess I over estimated your intelligence, greatly.
This coming from the guy that claims I want to ban the burqa because Muslim women will use it to cause terror? Yet nowhere in this thread will you find me saying that!!!
fify.
At least he doesn't make stuff up about you, lol.That's ok, because when I read your posts, all that comes into my head is:
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.........