Freedom of Speech

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
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Under a Lone Palm
Sometimes I forget just how whiny rightards can be.
You should have filled like complaints when the law was in effect. Were you not offended by the libtard discourse?
That should have been, according to your reference material, all that was needed to file a complaint.
Or is this a big wind thread?
 

El Barto

les fesses a l'aire
Feb 11, 2007
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What is the point of free speech when you hear rehearsed brainwashed opinions? . None of which is of their own creation.
 

Colpy

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Blasphemy for Me, But Not For Thee

Column: Do liberals actually believe in the right to offend?





BY: Matthew Continetti
January 9, 2015 5:00 am

Twelve killed in Paris. Islamic terrorists executed them in a military-style attack. Why? Because they worked for Charlie Hebdo—sort of the French Mad—which had published cartoons “insulting” to Islam. The murders demonstrated the threat, the reach, and the malignity of Islamism. So it was heartening, at the end of this demoralizing day, to see a consensus on the importance of free speech
.
Web sites in Europe and America, liberal and conservative, published the offending cartoons. My Twitter feed was clogged with pundits, of every persuasion, declaring their support for inviolable rights of free speech. Thousands marched in Paris in solidarity with the dead. Their motto: “Je Suis Charlie.” I am Charlie.

I am buoyed by the spirit of defiance in the face of terror, and by the avowals of Enlightenment principles such as freedom of religion and speech and press. Yet I confess there are parts of the reaction to the Charlie Hebdo murders that I find discomfiting.

The unanimity of outrage expressed on Twitter, the unthinking allegiance to the cause of the hour whatever that cause might be, the social positioning of writers struggling to be the most pure, the most righteous, the most moving in their indignation—all of these things remind me of other scandals, of other rages, in which the targets were not Islamic terrorists but men and women who disagree with elements of liberal dogma.

Do liberals actually believe in the right to offend? Their attitude seems to me to be ambivalent at best. And this equivocation was apparent within hours of the attack, when news outlets censored or refused to publish the images for which the Charlie Hebdo editors were killed. Classifying satire or opinion as “hate speech” subject to regulation is not an aberration. It is commonplace.

Indeed, the outpouring of support for free speech in the aftermath of the Paris attack coincides with, and partially obscures, the degradation of speech rights in the West. Commencement last year was marked by universities revoking appearances by speakers Condoleezza Rice and Ayaan Hirsi Ali for no other reason than that mobs disagreed with the speakers’ points of view. I do not recall liberals rallying behind Condi and Hirsi Ali then.

Nor do I recall liberals standing up for the critics of global warming and evolutionary theory, of same-sex marriage and trans rights and women in combat, of riots in Ferguson and of Obama’s decision to amnesty millions of illegal immigrants. On the contrary: To dissent from the politically correct and conventional and fashionable is to invite rebuke, disdain, expulsion from polite society, to court the label of Islamophobe or denier or bigot or cisnormative or misogynist or racist or carrier of privilege and irredeemable micro-aggressor. For the right to offend to have any meaning, however, it cannot be limited to theistic religions. You must have the right to offend secular humanists, too.

Brendan Eich donated a thousand dollars to Proposition Eight in 2008. Six years later it cost him his job. In 2014, when Charles Krauthammer merely stated his agnosticism on the question of what causes global warming, liberals organized a petition demanding his removal from the Washington Post. A rather touchy climate scientist named Michael Mann—subtly parodied in Interstellar—has sued National Review and Mark Steyn for disagreeing with him. Last May, after some sensitive souls complained, the Chicago Sun-Times removed from its site a column by Kevin D. Williamson critical of transgender activism. No one wept for Kevin.

Just last month Sony Pictures initially declined to release The Interview in theaters because North Korea threatened retaliation. And at this very moment, a student at Brandeis University is persecuted by his college administration, threatened with disciplinary action and even expulsion, because his journalism and activism have made some of his fellow students uncomfortable.

The liberal desire to regulate speech, especially political speech, is overwhelming. The Democrats’ ideal campaign finance regime is one in which speech would be closely regulated by bureaucrats and courts. The left was apoplectic in 2010 when the Supreme Court in its Citizens United decision overturned, on First Amendment grounds, parts of McCain-Feingold. Citizens United, remember, had sued the FEC because its film critical of Hillary Clinton had been deemed an illegal instance of “electioneering.” The nerve.

A campaign finance system designed by Lawrence Lessig and Harry Reid would suppress opposing viewpoints and use disclosure as a cudgel by which to impugn and ostracize would-be Brendan Eichs. In 2010, Ohio Democrat Steve Driehaus filed a complaint with the Ohio Elections Commission against the pro-life Susan B. Anthony List. Driehaus charged that the nonprofit had posted an offensive billboard in his district—and that this advertisement violated a state law criminalizing “inaccurate” statements about candidates for office.

This inability to distinguish between statements of fact (2+2=4) and statements of opinion (Steve Driehaus is a jerk) is a testament to the liberal confusion and irresolution towards free speech and the right to offend. Last year the Driehaus case went to the U.S. Supreme Court. The justices dismissed the complaint. Unanimously. The Court’s decision was not surprising. What was surprising, shocking, was that the now-overturned Ohio law existed in the first place.

“This attack was an assault on freedom everywhere,” wrote the New York Times editorial board of the Paris massacre. Yes it was. It is also the deadliest and most horrifying substantiation of a worldwide assault on free thought. Is it too much to hope that the Times editorial board and other liberals will use the attack to reexamine the basis of their glib and contradictory idea of free speech, to recognize that taking the right to blaspheme seriously means defending the unpopular and controversial and haram whenever a member of a designated victim class is aggrieved, wherever a mob becomes frenzied, whatever the views of the offended?

I think we know the answer. In 2012, in the aftermath of the Benghazi attack, the Obama administration famously went out of its way to place the blame for the killing of four Americans on an “anti-Islamic” video that it vociferously condemned. Pulled from YouTube, the video was said to have invited riots by Islamic mobs, to have somehow exceeded the freedoms liberals now champion.

“I know it’s hard for some people to understand why the United States cannot or does not just prevent these kinds of reprehensible videos from ever seeing the light of day,” said Hillary Clinton. The man who made the video was sentenced to jail on a parole violation.

Around that time, Jay Carney questioned “the judgment behind the decision” of Charlie Hebdo to publish cartoons satirizing Islam. The Obama administration supported, in 2011, a U.N. resolution “condemning the stereotyping, negative profiling, and stigmatization of people based on their religion.”

Stereotypes, negativity, criticism, profiling, stigmas, meanness in general—if expressed in print or by voice, these subjective statements are parts of speech (and keep me employed). They may be imprudent. They may be wrong. But they must be free.


Blasphemy for Me, But Not For Thee | Washington Free Beacon
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Guy complaining about losing free speech writes really dumb article.

News at 11
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Yeah, God forbid we talk about the lack of interest or understanding of basic individual rights.

Anyway, you're up early causing trouble. :)
I understand your point, Colpy, and I agree in some ways, but let me clarify a couple of things. . .

1. These dogturds in France weren't about freedom of speech, they were just a few mostly-insane freaks on a killing spree, no different from that dogturd who shot up the Amish school or the one who shot up the Sikh temple.

2. Only the government can infringe your freedom of speech! The Paris attacks were horrible, and I'm VERY glad the dogturds are dead, but at the end of the day, it was just another mass murder in a world that's seen way too many. Their attack on Charlie Hebdo was child's play compared to the incredible, stifling hand of government with it's trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of agents and its overwhelming power.

3. So, yeah, resist any and all attempts to pass speech-control laws, such as "hate speech" damfoolery, but. . .

3a. Don't conflate the Paris dogturds with real attacks on free speech, no matter how splashy it is, and

3b. Always be aware of the distinction between "You shouldn't say that" and "We need a law forbidding you to say that." The former IS free speech, the latter is far deadlier to humanity than ten thousand murderous nutjobs.

I'll be in Paris in three weeks. If you'd like, I'll leave a Maple Leaf flag at the Charlie Hebdo office for you.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Yeah, God forbid we talk about the lack of interest or understanding of basic individual rights.

Anyway, you're up early causing trouble. :)
Colpy, It seems that the last few posters don't understand that the attack on free speech is not only from the islamic terrorists but also from the other news sources that didn't show complete, just milquetoast solidarity with the French paper., and even the president who refuses to use the word "islam" with terrorist......
Progressives and apologists will never learn.....

It gives new meaning to the words "First they came for............I did not speak out"




"Then they came for me................................."
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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I understand your point, Colpy, and I agree in some ways, but let me clarify a couple of things. . .

1. These dogturds in France weren't about freedom of speech, they were just a few mostly-insane freaks on a killing spree, no different from that dogturd who shot up the Amish school or the one who shot up the Sikh temple.

Well, yes and no. I don't disagree, the main ideology behind the murder's actions was not "to damage freedom of speech" but to say it does not harm that freedom as result is incorrect. As has been demonstrated by the overwhelming reluctance of most of the main stream media to publish/republish the drawings that incurred the wrath in the first place. The media can throw whatever rationalization over it that they wish, but they still are allowing this terror incident (and it is a terror incident) to hold sway. And that is wrong.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Well, yes and no. I don't disagree, the main ideology behind the murder's actions was not "to damage freedom of speech" but to say it does not harm that freedom as result is incorrect. As has been demonstrated by the overwhelming reluctance of most of the main stream media to publish/republish the drawings that incurred the wrath in the first place. The media can throw whatever rationalization over it that they wish, but they still are allowing this terror incident (and it is a terror incident) to hold sway. And that is wrong.
We've seen here in the U.S. that the biggest harm to freedom isn't the terrorist attacks, it's the government's actions to "keep us safe."
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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We've seen here in the U.S. that the biggest harm to freedom isn't the terrorist attacks, it's the government's actions to "keep us safe."

Yeah....which are brought on by the terror attacks.....you see?

Hence the reason why it's important to stand up and say no, we won't comply with those standards.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Yeah....which are brought on by the terror attacks.....you see?

Hence the reason why it's important to stand up and say no, we won't comply with those standards.
Agreed, but the government's actions aren't down to the terrorists.

I may sound very a-n-a-l about this, but I think it's important to keep in mind exactly who is doing what. Otherwise, as we've seen here, you can end up blaming A for B's actions, and A walks away laughing whilst you're bashing B.
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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Agreed, but the government's actions aren't down to the terrorists.

I may sound very a-n-a-l about this, but I think it's important to keep in mind exactly who is doing what. Otherwise, as we've seen here, you can end up blaming A for B's actions, and A walks away laughing whilst you're bashing B.

And I'm not looking to do that, not at all. But neither do I think we should completely disregard it. My expectation here is that the media, which should be the biggest proponent of free speech, should step up. It's on them, and on us to put the pressure there.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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And I'm not looking to do that, not at all. But neither do I think we should completely disregard it. My expectation here is that the media, which should be the biggest proponent of free speech, should step up. It's on them, and on us to put the pressure there.
I'm a big believer in denying the wackos the dignity of "terrorists" or "soldiers of (whatever)." Pathetic specimens who can't deal with the complexities of life as free folk, that's my meme. I don't give a damn what "cause" they latch onto: the international revolution, racism, Mohammed, our sacred soil, whatever. Kill 'em resisting arrest or hang 'em, and press on. Give their "issues" no attention, no credence.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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I'm a big believer in denying the wackos the dignity of "terrorists" or "soldiers of (whatever)." Pathetic specimens who can't deal with the complexities of life as free folk, that's my meme. I don't give a damn what "cause" they latch onto: the international revolution, racism, Mohammed, our sacred soil, whatever. Kill 'em resisting arrest or hang 'em, and press on. Give their "issues" no attention, no credence.

But it's not really their issues anymore is it? I mean, if every news paper in the world republished the same drawing(s) that inspired the wrath of these murders in the first place, who is that sending a message to? I'd say it's sending it to all those who don't do enough to oppose these whack-a-moles within their own societies. It's saying "Being offended is not justification for murder." And that's an important statement to make, both for freedom of speech and simply to say "we will not bend to your will".

But yeah, I get what you're saying and I have no issues simply labeling them as criminals and murderers.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I think we're basically in agreement. You wanna advocate forbidding insults to Mohammed? The right of Lower F*ckupistan to be independent? Abortion? Race? Fine, let's debate. and have a vote. They are all legitimate questions.

You pick up a gun, you're just a dogturd who reaches for the gun because he lacks the brainpower to engage in debate. And your end will be a small cell or a smaller box.
 

DaSleeper

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May 27, 2007
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But it's not really their issues anymore is it? I mean, if every news paper in the world republished the same drawing(s) that inspired the wrath of these murders in the first place, who is that sending a message to? I'd say it's sending it to all those who don't do enough to oppose these whack-a-moles within their own societies. It's saying "Being offended is not justification for murder." And that's an important statement to make, both for freedom of speech and simply to say "we will not bend to your will".

But yeah, I get what you're saying and I have no issues simply labeling them as criminals and murderers.

Why is it that for any other crime we look for the underlying cause of the crime, while in this case some people won't even consider the underlying case..... they even go to great lengths to ignore it?
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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Why is it that for any other crime we look for the underlying cause of the crime, while in this case some people won't even consider the underlying case..... they even go to great lengths to ignore it?

the self-anointed like to think they are upholding the prog prime directive of selective non interference.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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Why is it that for any other crime we look for the underlying cause of the crime, while in this case some people won't even consider the underlying case..... they even go to great lengths to ignore it?

Well it's a debatable point though. I'm not really sure where I come down on it definitively but there is some merit to the suggestion that labeling something a terrorist act gives it a certain amount of power. It's a criminal act. It's like saying some guy who got his skulled bashed in because he was gay is a victim of a hate crime. Well, it's murder, that's hateful enough wouldn't you say?

And I don't think underlying causes should be neglected. I just don't think the underlying cause was an intention to damage free speech, that was a result, but not the intention. The intention was to destroy/kill because they felt it justifiable to do so, essentially, for 'hurt feelings'. The clearest message back to like minded individuals is to publish and say "no, it's a drawing, death is never justified".
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Well it's a debatable point though. I'm not really sure where I come down on it definitively but there is some merit to the suggestion that labeling something a terrorist act gives it a certain amount of power. It's a criminal act. It's like saying some guy who got his skulled bashed in because he was gay is a victim of a hate crime. Well, it's murder, that's hateful enough wouldn't you say?

And I don't think underlying causes should be neglected. I just don't think the underlying cause was an intention to damage free speech, that was a result, but not the intention. The intention was to destroy/kill because they felt it justifiable to do so, essentially, for 'hurt feelings'. The clearest message back to like minded individuals is to publish and say "no, it's a drawing, death is never justified".
Agreed, It may not be the intention to damage free speech on the part of the islamic terrorists, but it does that effectively, since the official response and some news organizations and Progressives go to great lengths to ignore it and don't label it for what it is..
 

Colpy

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