Fighting Has No Place in Hockey

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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I'm not disputing anything laroque said in his book, for I haven't read it, and don't intend to read
it.

He said a lot about the subject when his book was released, why?, to sell the book.

No different than any other author, or celebrity who has a book coming out.

Drugs and sports is a totally different subject. Laroque's era of hockey is finished, now he
has a different way to make money. Good for him.

I don't find any connection at all to drugs and fighting in hockey, if george laroque does, fine,
I don't agree with him.

If you're going to play hockey, play the puck, not other people. As a spectator I get annoyed when I come to watch a game and see playing time wasted on scraps between juvenile egos.

Don't you agree with body checking either?

I watch many games thru the week, compared to the length of a hockey game, a fight takes less than
a minute, many times less than 20 seconds.

I watch lots of games with no fights at all.

Compared to what went on before the lock-out, today's game has far less goons than it once did. It was the goon battles that drove me away from hockey and it was the changes that Shanahan helped bring about that brought me back. Fights will always be a part of hockey but the frequency with which they occur these days is much less than what we once witnessed.

exactly, back in the day of the broadstreet bullies, etc., fighting was seen far too often, and
many times, in a group, not just two guys, that doesn't happen often now, once in a while.
 

L Gilbert

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Don't you agree with body checking either?
It's in the normal playing of the game. I play rugby, which is a much more violent sport than hockey, and checking is frequent. But extremely rarely does anyone ignore playing long enough to go beat on someone else simply because he was checked by them. We just get up and play more and hope there's an opportunity for reciprocity during the game. If there isn't, everyone forgets and we all have a bunch of beers afterwards. We expect to get bruised and bashed around simply because that's the nature of rugby. So fighting about it is ridiculous.

I watch many games thru the week, compared to the length of a hockey game, a fight takes less than
a minute, many times less than 20 seconds.
I don't care. Fighting still isn't in any handbook of hockey that I know of.

I watch lots of games with no fights at all.
Good. Then the players must have been playing hockey instead.
 

talloola

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Nov 14, 2006
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It's in the normal playing of the game. I play rugby, which is a much more violent sport than hockey, and checking is frequent. But extremely rarely does anyone ignore playing long enough to go beat on someone else simply because he was checked by them. We just get up and play more and hope there's an opportunity for reciprocity during the game. If there isn't, everyone forgets and we all have a bunch of beers afterwards. We expect to get bruised and bashed around simply because that's the nature of rugby. So fighting about it is ridiculous.

I don't care. Fighting still isn't in any handbook of hockey that I know of.

Good. Then the players must have been playing hockey instead.

exactly, and beating, as in body checking, is part of the flow of the game, part of the rules
of the game, part of the enjoyment of the game, makes the game much harder to play, it would
be so easy for those players to zip all over the place avoiding each other, but the first ones
to 'not' enjoy that type of play, is the players, the love what they do.
 

L Gilbert

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exactly, and beating, as in body checking, is part of the flow of the game, part of the rules
of the game, part of the enjoyment of the game, makes the game much harder to play, it would
be so easy for those players to zip all over the place avoiding each other, but the first ones
to 'not' enjoy that type of play, is the players, the love what they do.
No. I meant beating as in fighting. Checking is NOT fighting. Checking is part of the game, fighting isn't; simple as that.
If rugby players fight, they are given 5 minutes out. The next infraction means they are ejected from the game.

This season, approximately one-third of the games have had a fight or two. There has been no appreciable change in the last 10 years. Fighting is still part of the NHL "culture."
Hockey fight statistics - NHL - hockeyfights.com
Yeah, it's a part of the culture, not the game.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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In response to those making comments about "the old days" not having the fights they have now or not hiring players solely as enforcers, I have to ask..... what fairyland are you from?

Bobbie Clarkes Philidelphia Flyers, damn near the entire team were "goons". Tiger Williams was drafted as a fighter and shyte disturber.... he sure as hell wasn't hired for skating talent. The man couldn't skate to save his life.


Players from "the good ol days" wouldn't make the cut today. Players today are bigger, faster, and a hell of alot more technically versed in the game. Back in the "good ol days" fast players like Rocket Richard and Bobby Orr were few and far between, an anomaly. These days, if you can't skate fast, you're not playing. Changes in equipment (skates) and conditioning have made this a fact of the sport.

What I am hearing from the detractors of today's NHL is that they really just want to see the game slowed back down to where it used to be. The fact is, todays junior teams could have given the teams from the 60's a run for their money and the cup. The game, and the players, have come a long way from 40 - 50 years ago.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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nobody said the league wouldn't exist without fighting

Perhaps you missed all the discussions on Fox or ESPN radio which asserted that NHL would die if fighting was banned. This does not mean the fans who call in view it that way - just that the reporters see it like that. Not surprising, of course, as fights means major headlines, more newspaper sales, and more air time for these critics.

I LIKE watching a collision sport

So do I, genius. But I prefer fights that are under controlled situations like martial arts and boxing. As you can plainly see from the video, players are getting seriously injured and their careers (and lives) are getting cut short because they are not controlled in the NHL.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
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As you can plainly see from the video, players are getting seriously injured and their careers (and lives) are getting cut short because they are not controlled in the NHL.

I know, over the years there have been some significant injuries from fighting incidents. I can recall Stu Grimson getting some cheek bones broken (in one of the semi-staged bouts against Dave Brown in an Edmonton-Calgary game), and I think it was Steve Smith broke his leg falling badly in a fight. Thats really about it. I'm not saying it was right but Steve Moore was injured because he WOULDN'T fight Bertuzzi, not because he did. Sure Georges Larocque and some others are complaining about it now that they are out, but there is no evidence aside from their anecdoates that former enforcers have it any worse than any other player going from a lucrative career on the ice to life after hockey. There have been tons of other players who have struggled to make that transition too. In short there is no proof that enforcers have had it worse than anyone else after retirement, just some anecdotes that could support a number of different situations.

I honestly think that the NHL is making strides by a) going after head shots and b) that they got rid of that idiot Colin Campbell and have Brendan Shanahan in charge of supplemental discipline: he is a lot more reasoned and even handed than his predecessors were (as he demonstrated in his finally suspending Ovechkin for his dangerous hits, which Campbell had repeatedly ignored).
And they're good games. There's no need of fighting in hockey.

Nah. Some of them are still snoozers. Its not fighting or lack of that makes a good game.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
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Perhaps you missed all the discussions on Fox or ESPN radio which asserted that NHL would die if fighting was banned. This does not mean the fans who call in view it that way - just that the reporters see it like that. Not surprising, of course, as fights means major headlines, more newspaper sales, and more air time for these critics.



So do I, genius. But I prefer fights that are under controlled situations like martial arts and boxing. As you can plainly see from the video, players are getting seriously injured and their careers (and lives) are getting cut short because they are not controlled in the NHL.

a fight is controlled till one or both of the players obviously have had enough,(that doesn't take long), or until one or both
fall down, there is no punches allowed once a player has fallen, and almost all of the time, a player
will,( of his own accord), never punch a player that player has fallen.

it is a controlled fight fairly quickly after it starts, the linesmen are right there to intervene
at any point they decide is time.

One of the most sensitive parts of a fight is making sure one of them doesn't hit their head on the
ice, when falling down, but I have also seen a player hang onto the other player, preventing him from
hitting his head.
Most times when the fight is finished, (usually well under a minute), they nod to each other, and I
have seen one pat the other on the shoulder, almost a thank-you. Amongst the excitement of a fight,
there is also an element of respect.

Everyone who demands a certain kind of behavior from the players, always forget, it is the players who
play the game, who have played the game from little children, it is their game, not YOURS, or mine,
yet so many want to boss them around like they are still children and tell them how to play, what to do,
don't fight, do fight, just leave them alone, and along with the players association and the NHL, they
will monitor themselves, eg. a very good approach to reducing the concussions. they are all doing
their best to deal with that, and it is noticeably improving.

Brenden Shanahan played the game from a child, retired from the NHL, and now is totally in charge of
suspensions, fines and controlling players who step over the line.
He is NOT a businessman who is trying to make a big profit, he is not an owner, or a manager, he an
EX PLAYER, and has the players safety and good standing in his mind, and will do what he needs to do
to help them do better.

Each time he hands out a suspension he shows a complete video, explaing why the infraction deserved
a certain number of games suspension.
It is very clear to anyone who watches, there is no 'grey' area.

GOOD FOR HIM, he is doing a good job.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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End fighting in Junior Hockey - The Globe and Mail

To quote from the article:
"Junior hockey is a business, and fighting feeds that business. It is the dark side of the national game – teenagers offering up their brains in the usually vain hope of a National Hockey League career. The overwhelming majority will not get even a sniff of the NHL. They need their brains intact.

"The rules of Canada’s game were not set in stone on a mountain top. There is no earthly reason to put teenagers’ brains through a meat grinder to keep purists happy."
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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Unless things get completely out of control I don't think those in a bar fight should
be charged with assault either. Fighting has always been part of the game and way
back they were rough and tough, and they had talent as well, now we have to endure
wimps like Wayne. Yes he is a nice guy, a great community minded person and I
agree with all that but he got special treatment. First he was a gate attraction so one
couldn't nail him like anyone else. Then there was the fact that he could trip others
or what ever but he couldn't stand up for himself, he would have had the crap beat
out of him.
I agree the game is fast, there are many players who are extremely good and the game
should be played with a minimum of violence but violence is part of the game always
has been and it should remain.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Unless things get completely out of control I don't think those in a bar fight should
be charged with assault either. Fighting has always been part of the game and way
back they were rough and tough, and they had talent as well, now we have to endure
wimps like Wayne. Yes he is a nice guy, a great community minded person and I
agree with all that but he got special treatment. First he was a gate attraction so one
couldn't nail him like anyone else. Then there was the fact that he could trip others
or what ever but he couldn't stand up for himself, he would have had the crap beat
out of him.
I agree the game is fast, there are many players who are extremely good and the game
should be played with a minimum of violence but violence is part of the game always
has been and it should remain.


Really? Ok....what special treatment did he get? Be specific and back up your assertions.

I do know that semenko was hired by Edmonton specifically to be Gretzky's "bodygaurd". To ensure that no one touched him and to take care of anyone that did touch him. Otherwise, Gretzky wasn't given any special treatment by others.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Really? Ok....what special treatment did he get? Be specific and back up your assertions.

I do know that semenko was hired by Edmonton specifically to be Gretzky's "bodygaurd". To ensure that no one touched him and to take care of anyone that did touch him. Otherwise, Gretzky wasn't given any special treatment by others.
I remember seeing Wayne in a few fights, slashing, cross checking and dirty elbows to the adam's apple. He wasn't a wimp.
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
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How about tripping?

If I trip and slide down like someone taking second base, does that count?

Tell the Queen I can set things up to validate the socio-cultural legitimate power of her reign, all the way through to her eldest son's eldest son, and tell her husband to stop glowering at cameras like he's being used because we already know that.

What we're doing has been described by corn-hole mathematicians as impossible... the asymptotic bringing together of king-ship with the will of the people.

If done it will be the first time, like the first time relativity gets brought together with quantum physics.

For this tune I was going to play


But because of interference from Lucifer Puppets being told they can buy more time before being eated, I have to play this one they didn't notice to block.

http://tunes.digitalock.com/fromsmallthingsonedaybigthingscome.mp3

By the way... and I am speaking totally to Canadians here...

Nanchukas are the best non-gun tool.

Wrap them in ensolite so it does not crack skulls.

Seriously... it makes all the difference when you pad them. Otherwise they are perfect personal defense weapons.

Just figure out the best way to pad nanchukas (I used white early-70's ensolite) and you won't be doomed for breaking skulls.

Have you ever seen how thin human skulls are?

Ever tried to break a raw egg by pushing it between your hands between top and bottom?

You type God wanted to keep going after His war against His own creation is saying no more than you.
 
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