Durban Climate Change Conference 2011

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Kyoto accord was never about the environment

Finally, something positive happened at a United Nations climate summit on the Kyoto Protocol.
Canada walked away. We officially withdrew from the Kyoto madness.
The Kyoto Protocol, signed in 1997 under the auspices of the United Nations, was the first international agreement to set binding targets for countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 5.2 per cent relative to 1990 levels by 2012.
At the recent meeting in South Africa, more than 190 countries all but conceded Kyoto's ultimate defeat by extending the 2012 deadline to 2017.
If Canada had not abandoned the treaty, we would have been on the hook for at least $14 billion in penalties for not meeting the target. If we had dedicated ourselves to meeting the target, various studies have estimated that gasoline prices would have risen 50 per cent, economic growth would have been reduced by at least three per cent and there would have been a net loss of about 450,000 jobs. Further, it could have cost every Canadian at least $3,500 per year, according to the Fraser Institute.
There is no consensus on the exact costs associated with complying with Kyoto, but there is a consensus that these efforts would significantly compromise the Canadian economy and our standard of living.
And, based on Environment Minister Peter Kent's comments, I don't think many of us are willing to pay that cost.
Kent gave Canadians an idea of the grim realities involved by saying, "To meet the target under 2012 would be the equivalent of either removing every car, truck, ATV, tractor, ambulance, police car and vehicle of every kind from Canadian roads, or closing down the entire farming and agricultural sector and cutting heat to every home, office, hospital, factory and building in Canada."
All this when Canada only emits two per cent of the world's greenhouse gases and the Alberta oilsands contribute just five per cent to that total.
Kyoto is, essentially, a tax on wealth. If a developing country can't meet a certain target for a reduction in greenhouse gases, then it must pay a penalty by purchasing emissions credits from foreign countries. So a country doesn't have to reduce CO2 emissions, it can simply buy its way out of carbon hell.
As such, Kyoto never really had much to do with the environment. It was never much more than an exchange of money from rich nations to poor. In fact, it is estimated that up to $1.6 trillion was up for redistri-bution if the Kyoto Protocol had maintained its 2012 targets.
The madness began at the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro, where countries agreed to a voluntary reduction in greenhouse gas emissions to 1990 levels by the year 2000. But the voluntary part of the agreement never really took hold, so, in 1997, pious countries caught in the web of political correctness decided to set binding targets for 2012 in the form of the Kyoto Protocol.
But the treaty was basically dead in the water in 2001, when the United States refused to ratify it. In 2007, the United Nations held a climate summit in Bali and produced a document with a whole lot of back-pedalling. There were no new targets or time frames for cutting CO2 emissions. It simply resulted in an agreement for western nations to implement emissions quotas if developing nations such as China and India agreed to do the same. So far, no developing nations are offering to take part in the UN's climate change game plan.

The agreement has gone nowhere internationally, and nowhere domestically. Canada's Liberal government decided to ratify it in 2003, and while it was still governing, incorporated Kyoto programs and targets into annual budgets that have cost Canadians billions of dollars. We've spent plenty on Kyoto, yet our reductions are still nowhere near the 2012 target.
A 2007 issue of Nature, one of the best scientific journals, published a paper that calls for an end to the Kyoto accord and warns against creating any similar agreements that are geared toward targets and timetables for cutting CO2 emissions. The authors say Kyoto is a "symbolically important expression" of concern, but it's "the wrong tool for the job." A major flaw is the simplistic assumption that global emissions quotas are the best way to confront climate change.
Another flaw that has been widely addressed in the western media is the validity of the United Nations reports that are the foundation for all climate change discussions. Two separate leaks of inside e-mails from scientists involved in the UN's climate reports have shown that they are quite willing to fudge the data when necessary, confuse science and advocacy and use their influence to prevent the publication of any contradictory information - all to foster the belief that the world is in a global warming crisis.
The United Nations climate plans are a messy, deceitful business. If the UN can't get the science right, it probably won't do much better at keeping that $1.6 trillion exchange straight.
Canada is right to walk away and other nations will undoubtedly follow. Just make sure the last one turns off the lights.


Read more: Kyoto accord was never about the environment
 

captain morgan

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.. And don't you dare even think of questioning this 'Dear Leader Approved' propaganda.... All good eco warriors know that it is wrong to question the message, just listen and obey - independent thought is strictly prohibited!
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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The Kyoto Protocol, signed in 1997 under the auspices of the United Nations, was the first international agreement to set binding targets for countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 5.2 per cent relative to 1990 levels by 2012.

At the recent meeting in South Africa, more than 190 countries all but conceded Kyoto's ultimate defeat by extending the 2012 deadline to 2017.

This is false. It was understood there was going to be an extension at the time and most of these countries (except Canada) all but conceded to their targets and made them.

If Canada had not abandoned the treaty, we would have been on the hook for at least $14 billion in penalties for not meeting the target.

We'll still have to pay by buying up carbon credits in 2014. Oooooops.

If we had dedicated ourselves to meeting the target, various studies have estimated that gasoline prices would have risen 50 per cent, economic growth would have been reduced by at least three per cent and there would have been a net loss of about 450,000 jobs. Further, it could have cost every Canadian at least $3,500 per year, according to the Fraser Institute.

Gasoline prices already raised by 50% even though we were the worst offender on the grid. And none of the other countries that actually made their targets suffered any catastrophic job loss or costs.

There is no consensus on the exact costs associated with complying with Kyoto, but there is a consensus that these efforts would significantly compromise the Canadian economy and our standard of living.

Baseless rhetoric. Where are the sources to prove a consensus?

Kyoto is, essentially, a tax on wealth. If a developing country can't meet a certain target for a reduction in greenhouse gases, then it must pay a penalty by purchasing emissions credits from foreign countries. So a country doesn't have to reduce CO2 emissions, it can simply buy its way out of carbon hell.

Yes, this is testing the ethics of a corporation. We give them the freedom to choose to pollute for economic benefit.

Friedman and the open marketers should be proud.


The rest is a typical propaganda piece and the author doesn't acknowledge that we'll actually be paying to exit the accord anyway to the tune of $19 Billion dollars. Oooooops.

Eugenics came out of biology. For a a scientist you just missed the obvious.

Biology is a science. Eugenics is not.

Looks like you just missed the science.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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This is false. It was understood there was going to be an extension at the time and most of these countries (except Canada) all but conceded to their targets and made them.

Yeah, sure... Haven't they done that each and every year when they meet?

Sounds to me like all these 'extensions' were a clear signal that the accord was doomed.

We'll still have to pay by buying up carbon credits in 2014. Oooooops.

No problem, the cheque is in the mail.... What - you didn't get it - Damn Canada Post... I'll cut you a new one and shoot that in the mail promptly!



Baseless rhetoric. Where are the sources to prove a consensus?

One could ask you the same... And no, a 'report' from Robert Redford won't cut it.

Yes, this is testing the ethics of a corporation. We give them the freedom to choose to pollute for economic benefit.

It also tests the will power and motivation of the true believers such as yourself to do something on an individual basis... But as we saw yesterday, all that was forthcoming were a bevy of excuses as to why you don't want to be inconvenienced.

Friedman and the open marketers should be proud.

Yes... Yes he would.

The rest is a typical propaganda piece and the author doesn't acknowledge that we'll actually be paying to exit the accord anyway to the tune of $19 Billion dollars. Oooooops.

Funny you say that.... Physician, heal thyself...
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Look at Gunter desperately trying to spin the fact that we could pay up to $25 Billion for our exit.

The poor tears.


We might just have to drop our jets project in order to pay for this.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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6999 more moron sand I can make a total of $11,520,000 and they can all be guilt free too.

Are you talking about the guilt free debt our country has to pay now?

Yeah, sure... Haven't they done that each and every year when they meet?

Sounds to me like all these 'extensions' were a clear signal that the accord was doomed.

LOL

It's 1 extension that was expected by all parties at the signing of the treaty.

My goodness you're desperate.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Look at Gunter desperately trying to spin the fact that we could pay up to $25 Billion for our exit.

The poor tears.


We might just have to drop our jets project in order to pay for this.
Noooo that $1600 will come out of your pocket. Not from jets. They money from the jets isn't coming back anytime soon.

Are you talking about the guilt free debt our country has to pay now?
I'm offering you an opportunity to be green. You can use or sell the Karbon Kredits from that acre. It's a better deal than anyone else is offering you.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Oooooops.


Didn't Canada already withdraw before the end of 2011?..thereby escaping the penalty???

The additional penalties are for non-compliance in buying $19 Billion worth of credits.