Do not rush to judgment, nor condemn

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
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Since this goes before the courts again in a few days perhaps it would be a plan to consider what the RCMP Commissioner has to say. This became a rather volatile topic last time and since it will be in the news again in a few days, I am adding this article, in the hope that it can be discussed civilly rather than with pictures of pink staplers with kitty cats on them. I have never seen anything about this case that I found particularly humourous.

RCMP's Elliott cautions against rush to judgment over Dziekanski affair

at 14:19 on March 22, 2009, EDT.

Murray Brewster, THE CANADIAN PRESS
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Most Canadians do not understand the pressures of modern-day policing and should not rush to judgment, nor condemn the RCMP over the Robert Dziekanski affair, the Mounties' top man said Sunday.


The public inquiry into the Polish immigrant's death at the Vancouver airport resumes Monday and RCMP Commissioner William Elliott implored a public to wait for "a sober, sound examination of the facts and the circumstance" before deciding to condemn the force.


"I think the expression, walk a mile in my shoes comes to mind," he said Sunday at the conclusion of a brief visit to Kandahar.


He said he's confident sound assessments and recommendations, not knee-jerk reactions will come out of the inquiry, which has been on hiatus for two weeks.


One Mountie recently testified he was prompted into Tasering Dziekanski when the man, who had thrown a chair and spent 10 hours in the airport, brandished an open stapler in a threatening way.


Dziekanski died after being Tasered and subdued by the Mounties.


Laughter and heckling broke out in the public gallery as RCMP Const. Kwesi Millington, one of four officers called to the airport Oct. 14, 2007, demonstrated how an agitated Dziekanski held the stapler.


The inquiry lawyer asked how "four healthy, young officers" who wore body armour and carried guns could have believed an office tool was a threat.


Clearly frustrated, Elliott said he wasn't going to defend the conduct of the officers, but urged the public to appreciate the difficult, split-second situations faced by cops.


"They don't realize how quickly things happen and they don't realize how quickly often - unfortunately - bad things happen," he told reporters at Kandahar Airfield after meeting with RCMP officers, who are mentoring Afghan police.


"I would just ask Canadians to reflect for a minute before they jump to conclusions. You can have very frightening and very threatening situations. Fortunately we live in a country, unlike the country we are sitting in, where most Canadians do not encounter violence or threatening situations upclose and personal."


Elliott, the first civilian to hold the RCMP's top job, conceded a series of scandals, including the Dziekanski death, have damaged the federal police agency's credibility in the eyes of the public.


But he condemned the alleged character assassination of officers and said the public has "a tendency to want to look at situations as black and white situations."


It was Elliott's first trip to Kandahar to view the police mentoring operation that is headquartered out of the provincial reconstruction base.


The number of police officers assigned to the training program will increase from 34 to 50 by September, he confirmed.


"There is a lot of work to do, (but) there are encouraging signs," the commissioner said.


Training and educating Afghan police officers, many of whom are illiterate, ex-militia members, has been a slow, awkward process.


During a recent visit, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon and International Trade Minister Stockwell Day, who is in charge of the cabinet committee on Afghanistan, announced $21 million to pay the salaries of 3,000 police officers over the next two years.


The money will be administered by a United Nations' agency.


The fledgling cops are put through a rudimentary boot camp called Focused District Development, run by the U.S.


The Kandahar reconstruction base was recently given accreditation to begin teaching the course and an advanced level program, the net effect being more officers will be churned out onto the city's dangerous streets.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
A man brandishing a 'stapler', against a group of professional trained police officers, should be brought under control in a manual way. What did they think
he would do with the stapler, staple all of them together, so they wouldn't be able
to get apart of each other?
Or, he could have thrown it at them, imagine that, poor babies, they might have been clipped with a flying stapler, then it might have bounced off of all of their
heads, and they all could have died. Oh my my.
That many trained police officers could have restrained him physically, then
put hand cuffs, or 'whatever' they needed to keep him still.
But no, they have their new 'toy', and they want to play with it.
I will never understand how those large men didn't know how to subdue this
ONE man, who was obviously in a panic and afraid, and didn't know how to
speak english, this makes me want to puke every time I think about it.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
The police murdered Robert Dziekanski. That is obvious to anyone who has seen the tape and can reason their way out of a paper bag.

William Elliott is trying to start a new debate: should the police, considering the dangerous nature of their jobs, be forgiven when they murder people?

He wouldn't word it that way of coarse but it's still what he is proposing.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Saint John, N.B.
What a pile of crap.

"Murder" may be a little strong, as they (unfortunately) did not break any of the rules of engagement. Which badly need to be changed. Criminal negligence causing death leaps to mind as an alternative........but they should be charged.

And yes, I've gone nose-to-nose with armed criminals, and never killed anyone.

Once I confronted a guy with a 4 foot prybar.......which he raised at me in a threatening manner........I simply raised an eyebrow at him, and touched the butt of my holstered service revolver, drawing his attention to it. Go ahead. Swing. I'll block, you might break my arm, but then I'm going to shoot you. Repeatedly. I never said a word, but that was my clear intent. He surrendered,

Oh, BTW, I was by myself. My guard arrived after the fact.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
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Vernon, B.C.
What a pile of crap.

"Murder" may be a little strong, as they (unfortunately) did not break any of the rules of engagement. Which badly need to be changed. Criminal negligence causing death leaps to mind as an alternative........but they should be charged.

And yes, I've gone nose-to-nose with armed criminals, and never killed anyone.

Once I confronted a guy with a 4 foot prybar.......which he raised at me in a threatening manner........I simply raised an eyebrow at him, and touched the butt of my holstered service revolver, drawing his attention to it. Go ahead. Swing. I'll block, you might break my arm, but then I'm going to shoot you. Repeatedly. I never said a word, but that was my clear intent. He surrendered,

Oh, BTW, I was by myself. My guard arrived after the fact.


Yeah, I think we've all heard enough of this incident to be able to draw a pretty accurate conclusion.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
29,011
10,963
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
The OP Copy&Paste is reported from KANDAHAR, Afghanistan??? Huh...8O

The inquiry into the Taser-related death of a Polish immigrant at Vancouver
International Airport will resume Monday with testimony from the senior officer
involved.

RCMP Cpl. Benjamin (Monty) Robinson was the officer in charge of a team
of four when Robert Dziekanski was hit multiple times with a police stun gun
and died on Oct. 14, 2007.

Robinson will be asked about his gestures to Dziekanski just before he was
jolted, why he asked for another Taser shock even though Dziekanski was
already on the floor and what efforts he made to revive the unconscious man.
Robinson is expected to be on the stand for a number of days.

He will be followed by ambulance attendants who were called to the scene but
could not revive Dziekanski on the airport floor.

The Braidwood Inquiry was ordered following an international outcry over
Dziekanski's death.

Crown prosecutors decided in December that Robinson, Millington, Const.
Bill Bentley and Const. Gerry Rundel wouldn't face criminal charges, although
the inquiry's final report could include findings of misconduct.

Source: Inquiry into Dziekanski's Taser-related death resumes Monday
_________________
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
What a pile of crap.

"Murder" may be a little strong, as they (unfortunately) did not break any of the rules of engagement. Which badly need to be changed. Criminal negligence causing death leaps to mind as an alternative........but they should be charged.

And yes, I've gone nose-to-nose with armed criminals, and never killed anyone.

Once I confronted a guy with a 4 foot prybar.......which he raised at me in a threatening manner........I simply raised an eyebrow at him, and touched the butt of my holstered service revolver, drawing his attention to it. Go ahead. Swing. I'll block, you might break my arm, but then I'm going to shoot you. Repeatedly. I never said a word, but that was my clear intent. He surrendered,

Oh, BTW, I was by myself. My guard arrived after the fact.

Yes, Colpy, and thank you for your view of this situation, as a trained
professional in this area, your input, as you stated is appreciated.
What would these policemen have done if he had of been a really dangerous
person, run away?, no I guess not, they would have put about 100 bullets into
him, just to make sure.
It seems they were in more of a panic than the poor man they killed.
 

OkiefromMuskoki

Nominee Member
Mar 18, 2009
80
3
8
Muskoka
This is simply an issue of poorly trained and poorly supervised law enforcement officers pissed at an individual's lack of immediate compliance. It is not a criminal issue. It is a discipline issue.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
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Saint John, N.B.
This is simply an issue of poorly trained and poorly supervised law enforcement officers pissed at an individual's lack of immediate compliance. It is not a criminal issue. It is a discipline issue.

They zapped him 4 additional times while has was on the ground, doing the funky chicken, and screaming in pain.

They refused to uncuff the man so EMTs could properly treat him because he was, they claimed, still a threat. He was unconcious at the time, if not already dead.

This screams for a charge of criminal negligence.

Internal discipline simply doesn't cut it........and I'm usually on-side with the authorities.
 

OkiefromMuskoki

Nominee Member
Mar 18, 2009
80
3
8
Muskoka
You could try a charge of criminal negligence but dollars to donuts there would not be a conviction. Why waste the taxpayers money? It might be justified if the object is to send the law enforcement people a message but the chance of a conviction is virtually non existant.