It would take me pages to point out his heretical nonsense. Suffice it to say that his sort discredits the Church and God. He is about as much a Christian as you are
Did Jesus Struggle Like you Do?
- Thread starter sanctus
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It would take me pages to point out his heretical nonsense. Suffice it to say that his sort discredits the Church and God. He is about as much a Christian as you are
Actually, Jesus identified Himself as the son of God
Of course, if circumlocution counts, but nothing they could pin on him..
Mark? Its contradicted in Luke and several translations of Matthew.
I do find tremendous medition (him and a bush, heh) in the version in Mark, though. Thanks for pulling my leg about it.
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HE discredits the Church and God??? Of all the things to discredit the church and god, you pick HIM!It would take me pages to point out his heretical nonsense. Suffice it to say that his sort discredits the Church and God. He is about as much a Christian as you are
I dunno man...
When he rights, I see love and devotion to god...I see someone who has gotten something real out of his religious beliefs...out of what god means to him. I think that's great. I think he has used his love for positive...for good...from what I have seen. I don't get the negative, harsh, attacking sense against opposing views that I see and hear too often. I don't understand.It would take me pages to point out his heretical nonsense. Suffice it to say that his sort discredits the Church and God. He is about as much a Christian as you are
Sorry gopher, that verse proves that God allows evil, but does not create evil.
Unfortunately, you do not understand the Bible. As a literary scholar I have debated the Bible with scholars whose knowledge of that book far exceed that of Sanctus. Whether you want to believe it or not, you simply are no match for me on the subject of that book.
Log on to blueletterbible.org and you will see proof of what I have written. Since you won't believe me, here it is to conclude the argument:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Isa&chapter=45&verse=7&version=KJV#7
EnglishStrong'sHebrew (Root form)Tense(Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) I form
[03335][SIZE=-1]
yatsar[/SIZE]
the light,
[0216][SIZE=-1]
'owr[/SIZE] and create
[01254][SIZE=-1]
bara'[/SIZE]
darkness: [02822][SIZE=-1]
choshek[/SIZE] I make
[06213][SIZE=-1]
`asah[/SIZE]
peace, [07965][SIZE=-1]
shalowm[/SIZE] and create
[01254][SIZE=-1]
bara'[/SIZE]
evil: [07451][SIZE=-1]
ra`[/SIZE] I the LORD
[03068][SIZE=-1]
Y@hovah[/SIZE] do [06213][SIZE=-1]
`asah[/SIZE]
all these [things].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
God creates ALL evil and boasts of it.
CASE CLOSED.
Unfortunately, you do not understand the Bible. As a literary scholar I have debated the Bible with scholars whose knowledge of that book far exceed that of Sanctus. Whether you want to believe it or not, you simply are no match for me on the subject of that book.
Log on to blueletterbible.org and you will see proof of what I have written. Since you won't believe me, here it is to conclude the argument:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Isa&chapter=45&verse=7&version=KJV#7
EnglishStrong'sHebrew (Root form)Tense(Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) I form
[03335][SIZE=-1]
the light,
[0216][SIZE=-1]
[01254][SIZE=-1]
darkness: [02822][SIZE=-1]
[06213][SIZE=-1]
peace, [07965][SIZE=-1]
[01254][SIZE=-1]
evil: [07451][SIZE=-1]
[03068][SIZE=-1]
all these [things].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
God creates ALL evil and boasts of it.
CASE CLOSED.
Actually, Jesus identified Himself as the son of God
Mind you if you said Jesus never denied being the Son of God I'd agree with you wholeheartedly and the way John tells it he certainly worked its likelihood into his teachings...
But he never said it.
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Well AndyF, God tells us that He placed the tree in the midst of the garden. (Earth)
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
If God had not placed the tree for Adam and Eve to partake, guess what? They would never have known what evil was or even what good is.
It is common sense that if there is no opposition, there is no definition.
Apart from evil, can you tell me how to measure good?
If a child just born is without sin, then it is good. But as it grows and eats of the tree of knowledge, then it begins to define what good is and what evil is.
I mean, if God wanted all good, then He would have never placed the tree of knowledge in the earth.
One could call them all babies then; that would never mature as individuals, but would all be the same.
Individualism has its price, and that price we pay as we learn who we are.
Now I will further prove to you that God worked to give us individualism in this next verse which is adds creditability to His placing the tree in the garden.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
It was Gods plan to subject us to knowledge of both good and evil, making us individuals separate from Him for the purposes of learning to manage both as gods.
So we suffer in learning.
He already knew that before He ever created the first man, so He also gave mankind the hope of redemption from the separation which He caused in the first place: in Jesus.
Its there in that same verse and plus the rest of the bible as a whole.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
You're kidding! Well, oddly enough so did I. We'll just hang together
LOL!
oh what the hell. goats have a more interesting diet anyways. :lol:
Case closed! No way...uh uh....come on...that would mean there was nothing else to talk about. There is plenty to discuss.Sorry gopher, that verse proves that God allows evil, but does not create evil.
Unfortunately, you do not understand the Bible. As a literary scholar I have debated the Bible with scholars whose knowledge of that book far exceed that of Sanctus. Whether you want to believe it or not, you simply are no match for me on the subject of that book.
Log on to blueletterbible.org and you will see proof of what I have written. Since you won't believe me, here it is to conclude the argument:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Isa&chapter=45&verse=7&version=KJV#7
EnglishStrong'sHebrew (Root form)Tense(Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) I formyatsar[/SIZE]'owr[/SIZE] and createbara'[/SIZE]choshek[/SIZE] I make`asah[/SIZE]shalowm[/SIZE] and createbara'[/SIZE]ra`[/SIZE] I the LORDY@hovah[/SIZE] do [06213][SIZE=-1]`asah[/SIZE]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
God creates ALL evil and boasts of it.
CASE CLOSED.
Sorry gopher, that verse proves that God allows evil, but does not create evil.
Unfortunately, you do not understand the Bible. As a literary scholar I have debated the Bible with scholars whose knowledge of that book far exceed that of Sanctus. Whether you want to believe it or not, you simply are no match for me on the subject of that book.
Log on to blueletterbible.org and you will see proof of what I have written. Since you won't believe me, here it is to conclude the argument:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Isa&chapter=45&verse=7&version=KJV#7
EnglishStrong'sHebrew (Root form)Tense(Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) I formyatsar[/SIZE]'owr[/SIZE] and createbara'[/SIZE]choshek[/SIZE] I make`asah[/SIZE]shalowm[/SIZE] and createbara'[/SIZE]ra`[/SIZE] I the LORDY@hovah[/SIZE] do [06213][SIZE=-1]`asah[/SIZE]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
God creates ALL evil and boasts of it.
CASE CLOSED.
I have Strong's concordance as well. But knowledge for knowledge is debatable all life long.
What is lacking is heart! Knowledge without heart is dead.
If I owned the whole world, I would lose my soul. Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
What God is looking for in us, is heart! The laws, the rules, the wealth of earth, the intelligence of humanity, all is meaningless, unless the heart of mankind is touched by God Himself.
Paul said: 1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Paul understood more than what he led on to, but the people could not handle the knowledge so he simplified the message in that verse.
And either way, to the Jews or the Greeks, opposition is felt both ways, as in the next verse.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
So, it is of no surprise that there are Greek (Gentiles) unbelievers as well as Jewish unbelievers.
But as for me, a Gentile and a believer, I understand both sides and am considerate and compassionate towards both.
I have, if you don't mine me saying without seeming arrogant, a level of understanding of Gods love, which comes from the heart way above that of any earthly intellectual understandings of sciences and human understandings.
There is just no way intellectuality can compete with the presences of God in the heart.
The heart is life of the soul and that is what moves on after the regular pump stops to beat.
And guess what else stops? All knowledge learned in the brain.
Heres a verse for that : Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
So, if you are going to do any good work, had better do it now while your still alive!
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
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Sorry, on that deletion. I read a word into it which was not there and commented on it by error.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Case closed! No way...uh uh....come on...that would mean there was nothing else to talk about. There is plenty to discuss.
Yes, there is plenty to discuss -- my reference was only to the claim that God does not create evil even though Strong's Concordance clearly proves that he does.
Yes, there is plenty to discuss -- my reference was only to the claim that God does not create evil even though Strong's Concordance clearly proves that he does.
I have Strong's concordance as well.
Good for you. It is a very significant book and we are very fortunate to have ready access to it thanks to that excellent web site.
And, as you can readily see, I have been correct all along.
Good for you. It is a very significant book and we are very fortunate to have ready access to it thanks to that excellent web site.
And, as you can readily see, I have been correct all along.
if you are going to do any good work, had better do it now while your still alive!
Well, you have seen my posts on this forum in which I have avowed Peace, brotherhood, and pro life. So, yes, I've been busy!;-)
Well, you have seen my posts on this forum in which I have avowed Peace, brotherhood, and pro life. So, yes, I've been busy!;-)
At this point in the discussion I think it might be interesting to turn the OP's question around: do you struggle like Jesus did? I think most of us who are trying to make sense of our lives would probably answer yes, to some degree, though fortunately very few of us know that our lives are going to be sacrificed for some supposedly greater good and I hope very few of us would have the hubris to equate our personal struggles with what reportedly happened to Jesus.
Even as an atheist, this is one of the great mysteries to me. I've never been any good at making leaps of either faith or logic, I have to see the whole argument laid out in rational steps and justified at every point before it makes sense to me, and this one eludes me entirely. How can one person take on all the 'sins of the world,' whatever that means, for all time, for everybody? Why didn't the whole world get that message at the same time? I've been told at various times by various people that god has not seen fit to remove the scales from my eyes, that I'm arrogant and ignorant, that I'm a scoffer and a mocker and worse, that I'm damned for all time because I insist on reasoned explanations and justifications, that doubt and reason and logic are bad and useless things, that I am personally a bad man, and I've had scripture cited at me to justify all those claims. I reject it all. It fundamentally doesn't make sense to me.
Even as an atheist, this is one of the great mysteries to me. I've never been any good at making leaps of either faith or logic, I have to see the whole argument laid out in rational steps and justified at every point before it makes sense to me, and this one eludes me entirely. How can one person take on all the 'sins of the world,' whatever that means, for all time, for everybody? Why didn't the whole world get that message at the same time? I've been told at various times by various people that god has not seen fit to remove the scales from my eyes, that I'm arrogant and ignorant, that I'm a scoffer and a mocker and worse, that I'm damned for all time because I insist on reasoned explanations and justifications, that doubt and reason and logic are bad and useless things, that I am personally a bad man, and I've had scripture cited at me to justify all those claims. I reject it all. It fundamentally doesn't make sense to me.
I agree. Not only that but why Jesus? What about all the other nut jobs that claimed to be the 'son of god'? Out of all of them why did people deicide to believe Jesus?? Doesn't make sense.