Denmark challenges Russia and Canada over North Pole

waldo

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towards recognition within International Law; re: the UN Oceans and Law of the Sea:

Denmark submission - Dec 14, 2015:
Partial Submission of the Government of the Kingdom of Denmark together with the Government of Greenland to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf --- The Northern Continental Shelf of Greenland ... Executive Summary

Canada submission - Dec 6m 2013:
Partial Submission of Canada to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf regarding its continental shelf in the Atlantic Ocean ... Executive Summary

as for Harper Conservatives 'lip service' to Arctic sovereignty... like Harper's yearly photo-op trip north... the glaring attention deficiency of Harper Conservatives is showcased when comparing the initiatives Russia has made and is moving towards!
today, "Russia has several search-and-rescue stations in the Arctic and is building ten more – each with its own ships and aircraft. Canada lacks a single port along the Northwest Passage in which a vessel could seek refuge in the event of mechanical problems or a serious storm. Russia has sixteen deep-water ports along its Arctic coastline."

The (Russian) Arctic is open for business
Russia is intent on transforming its Arctic coastline into a commercially viable alternative to the Suez Canal. In 2011, President Vladimir Putin said: “I want to stress the importance of the Northern Sea Route as an international transport artery that will rival traditional trade lanes in service fees, security and quality.”

Russia uses icebreakers to escort commercial vessels, and charges fees for the service. In 2007, it launched the Fifty Years of Victory, a nuclear-powered behemoth able to break 2.5 metres of ice at speed.

Canada’s diesel-powered icebreakers are much older and smaller. Although some money was recently budgeted for refits, there are plans for only one new vessel – and no construction contract has been signed. Canadian icebreakers generally aren’t used for escorting commercial vessels in the Arctic, and when they are, no cost recovery takes place.

Russia is building 10 search-and-rescue stations in the Arctic, each with its own ships and aircraft. The stations will supplement the icebreakers, their on-board helicopters and numerous military bases.

Not a single Canadian search-and-rescue aircraft is based in the Arctic. Helicopters and 45-year-old Hercules planes are deployed from Canada’s more southerly regions. An attempt to procure replacement planes began in 2002, but again, no construction contract has been signed.

Russia has 16 deep-water ports in the Arctic. Canada’s sole Arctic port is at Churchill, Man., nearly 2,000 kilometres south of the Northwest Passage. A plan to transform a disused wharf on Baffin Island into an all-year naval base, announced in 2007, has been delayed and curtailed.
 

MHz

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I think it may all depend on who subtends more of the pole, Canada or Russia! (I'll try to find out what Goggle says)
The conential shelf would be the grand banks with no fish, I don't need to check with NFLD to know how that is going. it isn't like Russia is going to run out of shelf themselves anytime soon,

Russia has 16 deep-water ports in the Arctic. Canada’s sole Arctic port is at Churchill, Man., nearly 2,000 kilometres south of the Northwest Passage. A plan to transform a disused wharf on Baffin Island into an all-year naval base, announced in 2007, has been delayed and curtailed.
Warf?? I though the place was in the frozen north, how about a runway on top of the island, where the wind is also the snow plow. Make a great prison for the world, no guards needed, just really good low speed air drops. I've worked in the north, when you are there it is pretty clear the number one enemy is the weather, if you didn't play well with others before you arrived you will play better when you leave (and so will they) After a certain amount of time, when see another person it gives you a glimmer of hope that they might even be useful, 10 minutes later you might be wishing for it to get colder..
 

JLM

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The conential shelf would be the grand banks with no fish, I don't need to check with NFLD to know how that is going. it isn't like Russia is going to run out of shelf themselves anytime soon,


Warf?? I though the place was in the frozen north, how about a runway on top of the island, where the wind is also the snow plow. Make a great prison for the world, no guards needed, just really good low speed air drops. I've worked in the north, when you are there it is pretty clear the number one enemy is the weather, if you didn't play well with others before you arrived you will play better when you leave (and so will they) After a certain amount of time, when see another person it gives you a glimmer of hope that they might even be useful, 10 minutes later you might be wishing for it to get colder..


Well Russia subtends more of the Pole than Canada.............6600 km. compared to 5514 km, so I guess she has more clout. I guess another big factor is where exactly the oil and gas are located. Russia's northern regions are far more developed than Canada's. Murmansk is a shade bigger than Grise Fjord.:)
 

MHz

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If there is an oil glut then the odds are NG is also being produced at something well below production capacity as the glut is from engines being shut down all over the place. As that vid above points out in the last minute or so the trench that is clearly in Russian territoty has huge mineral deposits built up around 'smokers'. You only need to vacuum it up. The list given is something like you would find in South America, if goodies like that started showing up on wall street the ruble would surpass gold as gold is only one of the treasures to be found there, apparently. I'm also pretty sure the north pole is not in any danger of being overrun by industry, look for Detroit to pick up first.
 

Blackleaf

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Denmark has a bigger Navy then we do. This is clear and present danger which obviously is squarely and firstly in the minds of our illustrious military and government. We should attack Denmark. The submarines are almost ready to be towed out to sea.

The best course of action for Canada would be to capitulate, let them have the space. in two years the ice will be a mile thick.

The pole is moving anyway, just wait a while it'll be back in Canada in 200 years, once the ice slides off in the tip over.

How embarassing for the Canadians that they have to surrender to the Danes because that country of just 5.6 million people has a bigger navy than they do.
 

taxslave

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citation request



Harper's got a ton of photo-ops from his yearly staged trips to the north... surely those will count for something!

If you think we own more of the Arctic I'm with you. What I suggested is the final bid. I'm quite willing to start with 100% of the Arctic and see what others have to offer.
 

MHz

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How embarassing for the Canadians that they have to surrender to the Danes because that country of just 5.6 million people has a bigger navy than they do.
Correction, Arctic Navy, aka, guy(s) on skies. We could always turn Hudson's Bay into a fish pond and depress the price of caviar, just to show them who is boss. When you throw out blanket objection to everything Russia proposes it become pretty clear that there is a more important agenda going on. Like Crimea is being used as the cover for a bigger agenda and this has a bigger goal than cheap gas. One last desperate to bankrupt Russia when she is sitting on a whole lot of money, too bad the US needs a quick kill because she can't win a long drawn out one and Europe won't take the same costs Canada seems to actually be cheering on, an oil exporter cheering on lower prices, about as smart as this guy. We may not end up speaking Russian but an accent is not out of the question.

Russian news: Shocking Data Proves Shale Oil Is Massively over-Hyped - Russia Insider

On a slightly different note, this is Kiev looking karma square in the face. They should pay attention, it explains how the rest of their program is going to go. lol karma, she really is a bitch.

Russian news: Video Captures Moment Shell Hits Ukrainian Soldier As He Argues for Killing Civilians - Russia Insider

It shows a zealous Ukrainian volunteer who is explaining there is no such thing as peaceful population in the rebel-held areas – everyone should be considered an enemy combatant - and dealt with accordingly.
As soon as these words leave his mouth, a shell explodes near him, knocking him out cold.

If you think we own more of the Arctic I'm with you. What I suggested is the final bid. I'm quite willing to start with 100% of the Arctic and see what others have to offer.
I though I was supposed to be the village idiot? What does planting a flag at the pole mean, even if she backs up to 50% she get the trench and that is treasure island, and island about 900sq miles big.

Yeah, but do they have ice breakers?
Breakers are to get commercial ships through, you going to go to war with an icebreaker being needed to guide your aircraft carrier into place? Hudson bay should be a would class sub builder, it go the same way as the Arrow?
 

Blackleaf

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Yeah, but do they have ice breakers?

The Royal Danish Navy has three icebreakers - that's three more than the Royal Canadian Navy has. It has the Danbjørn-class icebreakers HDMS Danbjørn and HDMS Isbjørn and the Thorbjørn-class icebreaker HDMS Thorbjørn.

You have to remember that the Kingdom of Denmark includes not only Denmark itself but also icy Faroe Islands and Greenland.

The Royal Canadian Navy's lack of any icebreakers was recently called an "embarrassment."

Why Canada’s search for an icebreaker is an Arctic embarrassment - The Globe and Mail

So even on that score, plucky little Denmark beats Canada.
 
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Blackleaf

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Canada's breakers are for the St Lawrence, like they should be.


That maybe would be the case if you actually had any. Even the Royal Navy for non-Arctic Britain has icebreakers.
 

JLM

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The Royal Danish Navy has three icebreakers - that's three more than the Royal Canadian Navy has.

You have to remember that the Kingdom of Denmark includes not only Denmark itself but also icy Faroe Islands and Greenland.

The Royal Canadian Navy's lack of any icebreakers was recently called an "embarrassment."

Why Canada’s search for an icebreaker is an Arctic embarrassment - The Globe and Mail

So even on that score, plucky little Denmark beats Canada.


True, we have a rather large faction in Canada, that is totally against any military spending!:)
 

captain morgan

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How embarassing for the Canadians that they have to surrender to the Danes because that country of just 5.6 million people has a bigger navy than they do.


The Danes have a real Navy, albeit only a few ships.... far more than Britain's pretend Navy that exists solely on computer models


That maybe would be the case if you actually had any. Even the Royal Navy for non-Arctic Britain has icebreakers.


 

MHz

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So even on that score, plucky little Denmark beats Canada.
You Brit's always poking a stick at events just to stir them up. Iceland is the tip of the iceberg (i love that pun) and the UK will be the first to see the treasure sail away. For Denark it is like getting a homestead on the prairies, during the height of the ice-age. Russia just reopened a military base, perhaps it is a mining expedition sent to bring back ore samples and the results will be weighed up and we'll have to wait for the results to come in. Only real question is, 'What will FOX run as the distraction?' Are you the UK export to us that Jihadi John and Joe were to ISIS.
 

Blackleaf

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The Danes have a real Navy, albeit only a few ships

The Danish Navy is actually larger than Canada's, and they have a much smaller population and coastline.




That'll be a Canadian Coast Guard vessel, not a Royal Canadian Navy one (the Royal Canadian Navy doesn't have any), and therefore is not even armed.

The Royal Navy's icebreaker HMS Protector (formerly the Norwegian ship MV Polarbjørn, "polar bear") is heavily armed.
 

MHz

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That maybe would be the case if you actually had any. Even the Royal Navy for non-Arctic Britain has icebreakers.
If you have to back up it isn't an ice breaker, it is an overweight fishing trawler or is that how we will avoid hypersonic missiles, by backing up 1/2 a boat. Now plant a drilling rig there, I see a lot of pipe getting bent before it is a producing hole. Sea ice is fresh water, sell some of that to Calischorhia. Russia will be more afraid of us if we quit ***** footing around and just start the shoting war that we seem determined to get, then when we win in a week we do get the whole Arctic, as suggested.

That'll be a Canadian Coast Guard vessel, not a Royal Canadian Navy one (the Royal Canadian Navy doesn't have any), and therefore is not even armed.

The Royal Navy's icebreaker HMS Protector (formerly the Norwegian ship MV Polarbjørn, "polar bear") is heavily armed.
Who cares, it is an oil-slick at best, might as well call it the Hood for all the action it would see.
Why not concede that Russia own the Money Pit and the UK wants a few scraps, do you have anything that doesn't have guns on it, Russia insists that role be left to their ships and what-nots.

The Danish Navy is actually larger than Canada's, and they have a much smaller population and coastline.
Sometime you should post everything you are handed. The whole difference is who the neighbors are. Did you get that? Sometimes the neighbors drag you down like Russia didn't do to their neighbor, apparently.
 

captain morgan

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That'll be a Canadian Coast Guard vessel, not a Royal Canadian Navy one (the Royal Canadian Navy doesn't have any), and therefore is not even armed.

The Royal Navy's icebreaker HMS Protector (formerly the Norwegian ship MV Polarbjørn, "polar bear") is heavily armed.

Canada doesn't include non-military vessels in it's Navy, although I see that Britain does rely on the inclusion of icebreakers and garbage scows as Naval vessels in absence of anything that has a militaristic capacity
 

Blackleaf

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Canada doesn't include non-military vessels in it's Navy,

Britain has Royal Navy AND non-Royal Navy icebreakers that can go to both the Arctic and Antarctic and Britain isn't even part of the Arctic or Antarctic.

Canada's presence in the Arctic is laughable for an Arctic country. The only Arctic presence you have is six unarmed coastguard vessels that are old and underpowered and at least one of those is merely to train sea cadets. One of them is due to be commissioned in 2020. Another one is to be built to replace it but it seems to be identical to all the others.

Meanwhile, Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne announced earlier this year that Britain is to get one of the biggest, most capable polar research vessels and icebreakers in the world.



The £200m ship is likely to be around 400ft long and sport a helipad, cranes, onboard labs, and have the ability to deploy subs and other ocean survey and sampling gear.

It should be ready to enter service in 2019, and will support scientists in both the Antarctic and the Arctic.



The strength of its hull will allow it to push deeper into pack ice than any previous British research vessel.

Addressing an audience at the world-famous Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, the chancellor said science was at the core of rebalancing the UK economy: "I get that this is something that Britain is brilliant at, and that it's vitally important to our economic future. So I've made it my personal priority in government to support [scientists in their] endeavour."

The UK already operates two polar ships - the Royal Research Ship (RRS) James Clark Ross and the RRS Ernest Shackleton.

VIDEO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bfpZGkxxFI8