Demjanjuk and Sobibor

einmensch

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Mar 1, 2008
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Here is and interesting article on Diesel and death--quite long for weak readers

http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschambera.html

Diesel exhaust has been dominant, at least in terms of numbers of victims, in the claims of holocaust scholars since the 1960's. The Diesel allegations did, however, gain some public notoriety with the prosecution of American citizen John Demjanjuk. Demjanjuk was accused of having murdered at least 875,000 Jews with Diesel exhaust at the alleged extermination camp at Treblinka in 1942/43.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Here is and interesting article on Diesel and death--quite long for weak readers

http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschambera.html

Diesel exhaust has been dominant, at least in terms of numbers of victims, in the claims of holocaust scholars since the 1960's. The Diesel allegations did, however, gain some public notoriety with the prosecution of American citizen John Demjanjuk. Demjanjuk was accused of having murdered at least 875,000 Jews with Diesel exhaust at the alleged extermination camp at Treblinka in 1942/43.


Diesel exhaust contains sulfur oxides, nitrogen oxides, acrolein and the most important component, carbon monoxide, an oxygen displacer.

Anyone that has worked with diesel engines, especially underground, knows full well the effects of diesel exhaust. In fact, special exhaust burners are installed on all underground diesels to ensure that all carbon is burned before exhausting to the atmosphere. This is furtehr enhanced by pumping massive amounts of fresh air in to enclosed areas, where engines are running. As to ensure the atmosphere is breathable.

The diesel exhaust used to exterminate Jews, didn't kill them by poisoning them, as your story is trying to claim, it was used to suffocate them.

Your story fails on all accounts.
 

einmensch

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Mar 1, 2008
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Revisionist Reflections on the Upcoming “Holocaust” Demjanjuk Trial in Germany

Sobibor witness Hella Fellenbaum-Weiss ...“The arrival of another convoy distressed me in the same way. It was thought to come from Lvov, but nobody knows for sure. Prisoners were sobbing and told us a dreadful tale: they had been gassed on the way with chlorine, but some survived. The bodies of the dead were green and their skin peeled off.”
Zelda Metz in her own words: “They [the alleged ‘gas chamber’ victims] entered the wooden building where the woman’s hair was cut, and then the ‘Bath’, i.e., the gas chamber. They were asphyxiated with chlorine. After 15 minutes, they had all suffocated. Through a window it was checked whether they were all dead. Then the floor opened automatically. The corpses fell into the cars of a train passing through the gas chamber and taking the corpses to the oven.”
Leon Feldhendler also declared chlorine was a “death-gas,” although he also claimed the Germans experimented with other gases
Alexander Pechersky alleged that some type of “heavy, black substance” was the death-gas.
Stanislaw Szmajzner believed the Germans used exhaust fumes, but also Zyklon B gas.10 Alterations in the story abound.
The chlorine gas, Zyklon B gas and “other un-named” gas stories have clearly been discreetly dumped by the “official history” of the Holocaust---isn’t it also possible that his claim of Jews being asphyxiated with carbon monoxide is also false?

“disposal of corpses.” By failing to note that the “official history” claims that 167, 000 to 250,000 were burned in mass graves,
Sobibor survivor, Kurt Thomas, claims the bodies were burned with coal.
Jules Schelvis, who says that wood was used.15 Another, Thomas Toivi Blatt, also says that wood was used, but the funeral pyres were sometimes doused with kerosene.16 Still another, Alexander Pechersky, says the bodies were burned with gasoline.17 Poland asserted that 250,000 people were murdered at Sobibor. The bones and teeth of hundreds of thousands of burned Jewish corpses were manually smashed into dust by Sobibor inmates with hammers! The forensic evidence was thus destroyed. The highly questionable nature (to put it mildly) of this allegation should be intuitively obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense.
Raul Hilberg...claimed...200,000 ...,Jules Schelvis 167,000--<<How come they are not on trial for “Holocaust denial?”

These Sobibor witnesses and Jewish Historians present conflicting stories.--
 

einmensch

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Mar 1, 2008
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Diesel exhaust contains sulfur oxides, nitrogen oxides, acrolein and the most important component, carbon monoxide, an oxygen displacer.

Anyone that has worked with diesel engines, especially underground, knows full well the effects of diesel exhaust. In fact, special exhaust burners are installed on all underground diesels to ensure that all carbon is burned before exhausting to the atmosphere. This is furtehr enhanced by pumping massive amounts of fresh air in to enclosed areas, where engines are running. As to ensure the atmosphere is breathable.

The diesel exhaust used to exterminate Jews, didn't kill them by poisoning them, as your story is trying to claim, it was used to suffocate them. <<< provide a source-bear

Your story fails on all accounts.

Not my story -scientific studies -bear----no suicides and no deaths from diesel exhaust. If you have any post them

http://www.nazigassings.com/nizkorlies.html

Back up your material with a souce-->>>the one you provided below leads nowhere


 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Not my story -scientific studies -bear----no suicides and no deaths from diesel exhaust. If you have any post them

http://www.nazigassings.com/nizkorlies.html

Back up your material with a souce-->>>the one you provided below leads nowhere
A source? For what should be common knowledge by someone trying to disprove this historical fact? You'ld think you would be far better acquainted with the chemical make up of diesel exhaust, before you would post such absurdities.

Here, filter through 17,400 hits for it on Google. Ranging from it's carcinogenic properties to its displacement of oxygen and thus being a viable killed.

This is why you believe this silly stuff, you haven't a grasp of the basic scientific properties of such basic things as carbon monoxide. Which is the same chemical that is produced by a gasoline engine, and is the killer behind that form of exposure. The only difference is, it takes longer with diesel exhaust.

This is simple science. I figured someone as learned as yourself wouldn't be so easily duped by such a silly story as the one you just posted. But since I obviously over estimated you know base. Here are some links so you can better acquaint yourself with carbon monoxide and its effects.

http://www.britannica.com/facts/5/524901/carbon-monoxide-as-discussed-in-human-disease

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphyxia

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1707408/
 
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weaselwords

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Nov 10, 2009
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salisbury's tavern
We did not find any results for www.jewishgen./deathcamps

What back up do you have?-- any forensic?
see: www.jewishgen,org/ForgottenCamps/
Gates To Hell - The Nazi Death Camps
www.mtsuedu/-baustin/holocamp html
Holocaust: Auschwitz, Birkenau, Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor, Dachau, Buchenwald, Mauthausen, Nordhausen
www.holocaustabout.com
I'm sure why its necessary to prove the holocaust happenned, I think its up you & your ilk to come up with incontervable proof that it didn't happen & you can't only supposition & twisted claims
 

einmensch

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Mar 1, 2008
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see: www.jewishgen,org/ForgottenCamps/
Gates To Hell - The Nazi Death Camps<<<same old stories from jews--no proof
www.mtsuedu/-baustin/holocamp html<<<leads to nothing
Holocaust: Auschwitz, Birkenau, Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor, Dachau, Buchenwald, Mauthausen, Nordhausenwww.holocaustabout.com--would be nice if you pointed out specifics-but you just throw the same old unsubstantiated junk
I'm sure why its necessary to prove the holocaust happened, I think its up you & your ilk to come up with inconceivable proof that it didn't happen & you can't only supposition & twisted claims

So far weasel many claims you boys made have been proven to be lies, but you know that. I asked for forensic proof and you return the same old mantra --Jewish propaganda with no documentation. Jewish witnesses have lied in many trials and some of their claims are so absurd that the Jews themselves have swept them under the carpet. You don't think or investigate--you recite without thought
 

CDNBear

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You don't think or investigate--you recite without thought


That coming from Captain cut and paste, is absolutely hilarious. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how diesel exhaust isn't a viable killer. My guess is, you haven't found something to parrot yet.
 

einmensch

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Mar 1, 2008
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A source? For what should be common knowledge by someone trying to disprove this historical fact? You'ld think you would be far better acquainted with the chemical make up of diesel exhaust, before you would post such absurdities.

Here, filter through 17,400 hits for it on Google. Ranging from it's carcinogenic properties to its displacement of oxygen and thus being a viable killed.

This is why you believe this silly stuff, you haven't a grasp of the basic scientific properties of such basic things as carbon monoxide. Which is the same chemical that is produced by a gasoline engine, and is the killer behind that form of exposure. The only difference is, it takes longer with diesel exhaust.

This is simple science. I figured someone as learned as yourself wouldn't be so easily duped by such a silly story as the one you just posted. But since I obviously over estimated you know base. Here are some links so you can better acquaint yourself with carbon monoxide and its effects.

Facts about carbon monoxide: asphyxiation, as discussed in human disease: Organic chemicals: -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Asphyxia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carbon Monoxide Asphyxiation from Motor Exhaust


The sad part bear is that you throw out garbage--cut and paste your point--you spend all your time telling me that I lack brains--that is it-nothing to do with the issue

Since diesel exhaust is so deadly, BEAR, point out one suicide by DIESEL EXHAUST--If the gassing witnesses would have had the brains to say- VOLKSWAGEN ENGINE EXHAUST was used -the story would be believable

You have no interest in investigating--your total interest in promoting Holocaust fiction
--present a study -your list Google list of 1400 whatever on diesel exhaust do not deal with killing in 20 minutes--they deal with years of exposure-
 

einmensch

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Mar 1, 2008
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Bear --please cut and paste -- out one suicide by DIESEL EXHAUST-you can't because it doesnt exist only gasoline engine exhausts kill
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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So far weasel many claims you boys made have been proven to be lies, but you know that. I asked for forensic proof and you return the same old mantra --Jewish propaganda with no documentation. Jewish witnesses have lied in many trials and some of their claims are so absurd that the Jews themselves have swept them under the carpet. You don't think or investigate--you recite without thought

You haven't proven a thing by shouting over what's been said. How do you explain thousands of souvenir photographs? Photoshop?

This thread - according to your own words - was supposed to be about Demjanjuk's unjust trial - then you turned it into yet another sob, whine and growl denial session. That indicates you'll stop at nothing to hide from the past.

BTW.... Explain to me why people die in their homes from carbon monoxide poisoning - from FURNACE OIL
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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The sad part bear is that you throw out garbage--cut and paste your point--you spend all your time telling me that I lack brains--that is it-nothing to do with the issue.
Of course that's how you see it. Anything else would destroy your ideology. We can't have that now can we?

Since diesel exhaust is so deadly, BEAR, point out one suicide by DIESEL EXHAUST--If the gassing witnesses would have had the brains to say- VOLKSWAGEN ENGINE EXHAUST was used -the story would be believable
The very reason why they use diesel engines underground, is the very reason why you will likely not find any or they would be so obscure, as to be hard to find. They create less carbon monoxide then a gasoline engine. It makes more sense to use the latter.

But you aren't saying that, you are arguing the fact that diesel exhaust does not kill. That's an absurd claim, that is completely false. It can kill. It will just take longer.

You have no interest in investigating--your total interest in promoting Holocaust fiction
--present a study -your list Google list of 1400 whatever on diesel exhaust do not deal with killing in 20 minutes--they deal with years of exposure-
That was 17,400 hits. And although the bulk of them are studies involving the toxicity of diesel exhaust. there are several that explain the displacement of oxygen by carbon monoxide. Which is how exhaust of either kind kills, in an acute manner.

I would argue that if your "study", that term used loosely, claims that witness statements claimed the deaths took place in 20 minutes, that would seem a tad short. But not out side the rhelm of of possibility. There are many variables. They amount of exhaust being that most crucial.

Bear --please cut and paste -- out one suicide by DIESEL EXHAUST-you can't because it doesnt exist only gasoline engine exhausts kill
Already asked and answered.

I suggest you go learn more about exhaust, diesel, gasoline or otherwise, before you make more foolish statements.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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You haven't proven a thing by shouting over what's been said. How do you explain thousands of souvenir photographs? Photoshop?
:lol:

This thread - according to your own words - was supposed to be about Demjanjuk's unjust trial - then you turned it into yet another sob, whine and growl denial session. That indicates you'll stop at nothing to hide from the past.
That's because the sane of us recognise that Demjanjuk's trial is a sham, and unjust. Which of course leaves nowhere for einny to go but down.
BTW.... Explain to me why people die in their homes from carbon monoxide poisoning - from FURNACE OIL
And what is furnace oils second cousin? ;-)
 

weaselwords

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Nov 10, 2009
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salisbury's tavern
My transperency is only because I'm guilty of believing the history as written by the majority & not the revised tripe that is attempted to be foisted on the thread by revisionists. Why is it so hard for you to believe that there was a systematic attempt to slaugther those that didn't meet the genetic, religous, cultural. race or sexual goals of those in power. From what I've read of revisionist literature it seems these goals are still quietly espoused as a background theme.
 
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einmensch

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My transparency is only because I'm guilty of believing the history as written by the majority & not the revised tripe that is attempted to be foisted on the thread by revisionists. Why is it so hard for you to believe that there was a systematic attempt to slaughter those that didn't meet the genetic, religious, cultural. race or sexual goals of those in power. From what I've read of revisionist literature it seems these goals are still quietly espoused as a background theme.

4 million was written on the Plaque at Auschwitz--you believed it Soap made from Jews--you believed it
Human breast Lampshades-you believed it
Shrunken heads -you believed it
Diesel gassing -you believe it to be true--all I asked for was a cut and paste with the source that---has one single documented case of a person committing suicide or killed by diesel exhaust fumes -wolf, bear, weasel etc.--not one of you has provided that--

-since diesel exhaust fumes were used at Sobibor, according to some eye witnesses -I certainly see the relevance to the Demjanjuk Trial
I previously posted sources for experiments.

I would be extremely impressed if any of you could reply in the same format below, rather than stating your opinion of me-which is irrelevant

1. Here is a clip from one of your established Holocaust Historians
2. According to Novoje Russkoje Slowo (New Russian Word),[116] a New York daily newspaper edited by and for emigrated Russian Jews, the world's most renowned Holocaust historian Prof. Raul Hilberg made the following statement:
"The Nazis did not manufacture soap from human fat, and did not kill their victims with Diesel exhaust. All these rumors were circulated in 1942, but we have the duty to thoroughly separate these rumors and fabrications from the facts and truth. Little lies provide fodder for the deniers and act against us."

Illustration 10: New Russian Word admits frankly: The Revisionists have the "air superiority"; Diesel exhaust is unsuitable for mass murder! Here the issue of February 28, 1995: "Ideology Holocaust" (Проверка Катастрофой. Click to enlarge.)

3. Source http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschamberc.html

Note the above is relevant to Sobibor and Demjanjuk